Is not believing in an eternal hell Heresy?

[Mama Kidogo]

How about this? Life that lasts forever? Not death continuing on forever? Never perishing?
We all know what "life" is. We shouldn't be redefining that to mean something other than "life". We also know that "eternal" means "lasting forever".

I completely disagree with the part I bolded. I read people saying things like "dead Saints" just about every time I come to this site.
I see people walking around dead all around me. No hope, no faith and no love for God.
Death is not an end. It's a destination.

 

[Timothew]

I completely disagree with the part I bolded. I read people saying things like "dead Saints" just about every time I come to this site.
I see people walking around dead all around me. No hope, no faith and no love for God.
Death is not an end. It's a destination.

Okay then, life and death really has no meaning, does it.

I mean really. You have seen dead people and you have seen people who are alive. Can you honestly say that you literally see dead people walking all around you? One way to tell if someone is NOT DEAD is if they are walking around. This is not rocket science. Do you perform CPR on a person who is walking around or on someone who is laying on the ground unconscious. we all know if we have seen someone who is alive, and we all know if we see someone who is dead. There is a difference. Dead people can't walk around, because they are dead.

 

[Timothew]

Look at it this way. If perish doesn't mean perish, If destroy doesn't mean destroy, if eternal life doesn't mean eternal life, if life doesn't mean life, if death doesn't mean death...

Then why would I ever need to have eternal life?
Why would I ever need to not perish?
Why should I fear destruction, if destruction doesn't mean destruction?
If death doesn't mean death, but eternal life instead of death, why should I fear death? Why would I need to be resurrected from death? If I am alive while I am dead, then I am not dead, I am alive. If I am alive, then I don't need Jesus Christ. IF your doctrine is correct. But since death really does mean death, then I need Jesus Christ to overcome death for me. Words have meanings. Words mean things. If your church forces you to redefine words like "Life, Death, Perish, Destroy, and Destruction", do you really think that they are trying to tell you the "truth"? Or have they redefined "Truth" as well?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I completely disagree with the part I bolded. I read people saying things like "dead Saints" just about every time I come to this site.
I see people walking around dead all around me. No hope, no faith and no love for God.
Death is not an end. It's a destination.

Yes, we all die. And unlike those who do not come to the Life and Light that is of Jesus, they are essentially the "walking dead".

"Let the dead walk/bury the dead".

Jesus did essentially come to a type of the land of the "living dead" according to Matt 4:16

Matt 4:16 The people, sitting in darkness perceived a great Light
And/also to the ones sitting in part and shadow of death, a Light springs-up to-them.
[Isaiah 60:2,3/John 1:4]

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[abysmul]

Ha! It's the Bill Clinton school of debate: It depends on what your definition of "is" is.

 

[Albion]

Based on What? What Scriptures?

I answered the question of the thread (which seems to have been left behind in most of the recent posts). In other words, the subject is the heresy, not proving hell exists.

And what Scriptures say that there will be an eternal separation from God?

I notice that you ask this question in the same post as you offer your rebuttal, so it doesn't look as though I need to say much in addition.

It is time for the Church to leave the doctrine of ECT that it strayed into and return to the doctrine of the Apostles, that there is only eternal life in Jesus Christ and those who reject Him will perish.

Maybe you should write or phone them with the news.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Basing things on scripture in answers is at least a noble endevour. Something you don't see from traditional answers. At least lloj's walking the dead was placed as scriptural

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Ha! It's the Bill Clinton school of debate: It depends on what your definition of "is" is.

What would your definition of it be?



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[James Is Back]

If you don't believe in hell here is what Jesus said in Matthew 5:

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

 

[Timothew]

If you don't believe in hell here is what Jesus said in Matthew 5:

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Yep!

And here is Jesus said will happen to those who are cast into hell, just in case you don't believe that the lost will be destroyed in hell: "Fear the one who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell". Matthew 10:28b
I believe Jesus who said the lost would be destroyed and I don't believe the man made tradition that the lost will live forever in hell being tormented alive while they are dead.

 

[Sean611]

Nice try, but I can read Greek, and the Greek word apollumi actually does mean destruction. And if you look at the context of Matthew 10:28, comparing what God can do (destroy both body and soul) to what man can do (destroy the body but the soul), it doesn't make any sense that apollumi doesn't mean destroy. If apollumi only means ruined, then man can ruin both the body and soul, and Jesus's point is lost. However if man can kill the body and can't kill the soul, and God can kill both the body and the soul in Gehenna; Then Jesus's point is made.

Also, Matthew uses the same word in Matthew 2:13 where Herod wanted to destroy Jesus. Herod's plan was to kill Jesus, not put him in a lost state of continued existence.

Whoever told you that apollumi doesn't mean destroy was not telling you the truth.

This is incorrect and really stretching the Scriptures you choose to cherry-pick to make your point. Furthermore, if you look at the way the Greek word apollumi is used throughout the Gospels then you can come to the clear conclusion that the word means ruined or lost. This correct interpretation of the meaning of the word apollumi does nothing to take away from the point Jesus is making.

 

[abysmul]

Yep!

And here is Jesus said will happen to those who are cast into hell, just in case you don't believe that the lost will be destroyed in hell: "Fear the one who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell". Matthew 10:28b
I believe Jesus who said the lost would be destroyed and I don't believe the man made tradition that the lost will live forever in hell being tormented alive while they are dead.

I've said it before, an infinity of torture is a great way to scare people into joining your group and donating $$$$$... join us or else.

 

[Timothew]

This is incorrect and really stretching the Scriptures you choose to cherry-pick to make your point.

I haven't "Cherry Picked" anything.

Matthew 10:28 makes my point, unless you wish to change the meaning of apollumi to it's opposite, "never-destroyed, but kept preserved forever in hell".

And if you read the whole of scripture, you can see that the doctrine that the lost perish and only those who receive Christ will have eternal life is supported throughout scripture.

What does John 3:16 say about the lost in your Bible? Does it say they perish, or does it say they have eternal life in hell? It isn't cherry picking to believe what John 3:16 says.

What does Romans 6:23 say is the wages of sin? Does it say that the wages of sin is death or eternal conscious torment in hell? This isn't cherry picking, Romans 6:23 is part of the Famous "Romans Road". I simply believe what it says.

That's 3 verses, that say exactly what I am saying, and they are not cherry picked. And there is not a single verse that you can find anywhere that says that the lost go to hell when they die where they will live forever in torment. I'm sure you will show me a verse that doesn't say that and then CLAIM that it does, but there really isn't any verse that really says that.

Do you need more proof?
How about Ezekiel 18:4 which says that the soul who sins shall die?
How about Luke 13:3 in which Jesus says "unless you repent you will likewise perish"?
How about Psalm 37:20 which says "The wicked will perish". Before you give me the standard objection that perishing doesn't mean that they continue to exist in hell, take a look at Psalm 37:10 which says "the wicked will be no more".

It isn't "cherry picking" to believe what the Bible says.
Especially since you don't even have ONE cherry to pick that supports your doctrine.

 

[By Faith Alone]

So if a Christian did not believe that some people will stay in hell and be eternally punished/tortured, and instead believed in Annihiliationism or Universal Reconciliation, is that heretical thought?

Or what if a Christian was not sure on which belief in hell to accept (and therefore was not 100% sure that an eternal hell exists)?

Just curious on people's opinions here on whether or not it is heresy to not accept 100% the traditional view of hell.

PS: This may belong in the unorthodox section, thought I did want to see the opinion of people who are orthodox when it comes to this matter.

I am happy to be a heretic.


Acts 24:13-15
13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after.... the way which they call heresy... so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.


Better make sure you are RIGHT before calling out HERESY!

 

[James Is Back]

If we're discussing whether or not Hell is a place of torment or a final destruction than this should be moved to the unorthodox forum.

 

[Timothew]

If we're discussing whether or not Hell is a place of torment or a final destruction than this should be moved to the unorthodox forum.

Shouldn't we first determine if Hell as a place of torment is unorthodox or if Hell as a place of destruction (as Jesus has said) is unorthodox?

Perhaps there is room within orthodoxy for both those who believe the tradition and those who believe Jesus Christ.

 

[By Faith Alone]

Shouldn't we first determine if Hell as a place of torment is unorthodox or if Hell as a place of destruction (as Jesus has said) is unorthodox?

Perhaps there is room within orthodoxy for both those who believe the tradition and those who believe Jesus Christ.

You can hang that up. Tradition has the habit of gagging Truth. No room for compromise.

 

[By Faith Alone]

I've said it before, an infinity of torture is a great way to scare people into joining your group and donating $$$$$... join us or else.

And they miss the part where the GOODNESS of God leadeth to repentance.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by AmericanChristian91

So if a Christian did not believe that some people will stay in hell and be eternally punished/tortured, and instead believed in Annihiliationism or Universal Reconciliation, is that heretical thought?

Or what if a Christian was not sure on which belief in hell to accept (and therefore was not 100% sure that an eternal hell exists)?

Just curious on people's opinions here on whether or not it is heresy to not accept 100% the traditional view of hell.

PS: This may belong in the unorthodox section, thought I did want to see the opinion of people who are orthodox when it comes to this matter.
​

I hope this thread stays on GT myself....

I am happy to be a heretic.

Acts 24:13-15
13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after.... the way which they call heresy... so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Better make sure you are RIGHT before calling out HERESY!

Come to think of it, I don't think Paul mentioned "gehenna/hell" in his epistles.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7464995/
Why no mention of "gehenna" in Paul's Epistles?

Acts 25:11
For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die.
But if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them.
I appeal unto Caesar!

Jesus did tho:

Matthew 23:33
"Serpents! brood of vipers!
how may ye escape from the judgment of the gehenna?"




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[Timothew]

I wish that those who disagree with me on the issue of hell would just discuss it with me. Just a friendly discussion to clear the air. I wish we could sit down together face to face over a cup of coffee, with our bibles open, and discuss God's Word together as Christian brothers and sisters. What would be the harm in that? Nobody trying to convince anybody of anything, nobody saying that's a heresy, or that's unorthodox. Just all of us being together reading the Scriptures, growing together as Christians. Jesus said "My sheep hear my voice". Let's sit down together and listen for His voice. This is how people will know that we are Christians, by the love we have for one another.