An alternative idea is that individually humans tend to be weak and fallible, but through shared goals and cooperation they can become strong and successful. This is achievable without requiring belief in a god. And following the alternative I have outlined, one balances ones feelings and desires against the feelings and desires and needs of the cooperative group one is part of, whether it be a bird watching society, a business, a nation, or the world community at large.
The problem I see with this idea that without some external source that is beyond human ideas about how society should be ordered to be strong and successful will inevitably decend into tribalism as we are seeing today with identity politics.
As humans are different culturally and ideologically we inevitably fall into forming identity groups if there is nothing uniting us beyond identity. Under the idea that 'all are created equal and in Gods image with natural rights' means we are all the same regardless of identity such as race, gender, gender identity, socioeconomic status, education, personal wealth, celebrity, station in life be it King or peasant.
It was a foundational Truth we lived by based on the Biblical Truths that on our own we are weak in nature and will decend in chaos at our own hands and that we weremore than the sum of our physical bodies and all belongs to something more greater and transcendent that united us.
That is undermined when we take God out of the picture and hense we end up with what we see today where we not only have sex wars but division along an increasing number of ways to differentiate ourselves from each other often with conflicting results.
Even to the point that the same western nation that values human life to fight for it against Hitlers extermination of the Jews is being re imagined in identity group politics where one group is calling for the extermination of another based on their ethnicity and belief. Long held Rights are being wound back and not expanded.
I note in passing that the attempts to adress the problems of global warming have been hampered in part by the climate deniers among certain denominations of Christianity. That is an instance where distancing ourselves from religion would produce positive benefits.
Yes and the greatest threat to God is the rise of secular Churches who become to world like that its hard to tell the difference. Its not really about climate change but a fundemental war between those who want to continue their lifestyle and those who are willing to sacrifice their life for the betterment of others.
That can and should be done across all areas of life. If we had applied this principle 50 years ago and thought more about others than indulging we would not be in such a mess.
This seems to be a common misunderstanding among some Christians. The 50% of non-believers are, for the most part, not interested in the concept of God, certainly not the God of the traditional religions. I appreciate that it can be motivating to think one is battling against and attack. You aren't. Your battle is against indifference.
Keep in mind that the atheists and agnostics on this forum are exceptions. They are interested in Christianity for a wide variety of reason, but the rest of "us" really don't care.
I am not sure but I would say the younger generation are not that interested as they have grown up in a generation that was less interested as well. The further you go back the more interested people were in God and Christianity. Thats just an evolution of how society has become more secular in its thinking.
But I don't really think people have become less interested in metaphysics and meaning of life and the morals that go with that. They have just taken on a different religious worldview which is 'no religion' or its an 'ideological outlook that has all the hallmarks of religion but is basedon human ideas about what is moral and meaning.
There seems to be an innate aspect of humans that needs spirituality ofg some sort and no one can exist purely in the physical and material dimension.
I challenge you on that with a single example. Believing they were doing God's work, bringing civilisation to the natives the British subjugated about 25% of the world, and while some benefits did come from that for native peoples, there was also much death, destruction, pillaging and de facto slavery. I suggest the world is in a better place today than it was then.
Yes the church did even greater injustices and harm even before this. But still we were more in tune with the basic Christian values despite not adhering to them due to corruption of those Truths. Ithink it was just prior to that time the church was meddling in politics and had become more worldly as far as power and colonialism is concerned.
But I am not sure we have become a better society. I mean obvious wrongs like dispossing land and culture was destructful to Indigenous peoples but also civilisation brought many benefits like you say. Much of that was born our of Christianity like schools and medicines and later hospitals.
But there is a form of dispossion and harm still going on by what many would call secular society and even in the name of science and the protection of peoples rights. Its just a new modern way of harming people with a new ideology.
But the core truths that Christianity brang of caring for the needy, sacrifice of life for others, all being equal under God and valuing human life are what endured up until recently since we have completely rejected God out of the public square.
There are some active, aggressive atheists who attack religion. But as I suggest above these are a tiny minority and the vast majority genuinely don't care. Are you thinking in terms of the differences, some profound, some trivial, that exist between different denominations? Differences that have made it necessary for the forum adminstrators to forbid asserting that a fellow member is "not a real Christian".
No its not anything radical but rather more a normative worldview that has come over secular society. They may not care to explicitly talk about God but thats because they are busy talking about alternative beliefs and ideas about the world, meaning of life, morality ect. But if you were to push them on the issue about belief in God they would come up with a dozen reasons why there is no God.
Some maybe many depending on the latest tends may believe in alternative metaphysical ideas that are usually grounded in human qualities. But they don't or its rare that they believe in Christ as savior and the creator God. They may have ideas about Christ being a great phrophet or moral teacher but no different to Mohummad and Bhuddah.
So I don't think their completely uninterested in God but just that they have been socialized with different ideologies that have taken the replace of God.
But not all of those "truth principles" are thought true by non-Christians, nor - as per my remarks above to ViaCrucis - by other fellow Christians.
@Hans Blaster nailed it when he said
"you want all of "the West" to follow the moral precepts of a religion that all do not follow."
In summary, I agree with you there are many things wrong with the world today. Where I disagree with you is what some of them are, whether or not it is getting worse, and what the solution is.
Yes that is the fundemental worldview difference between how Christians and non Christians see the world. Its summed up for Christians in the bible when it says some will look but not see and will listen and not hear. So of course there is going to be a difference in what constitutes 'getting worse'.
But there are also many overlaps between Christian beliefs in Gods order that permeate in nature and reality if God is also the Creator of nature and reality. It is these truths I think that western societies use to believe in which are now being undermined since God is rejected from the public square.
So when God is rejected some of the core truths about the order of things is also rejected and replaced by human made ideas. I look at this as the measure for how society is heading down the road to S&G and not necesarily the danger, or crime stats or the good or bad society has done. These are just symptoms of an underlying deterioration which is more fundemental spiritually.
This tells us about the state of the mind and soul, the thinking and how far its strayed from Gods order and truths and how we have turned ourselves into gods or made worldly things our gods. Today we are further away from those core beliefs and truths that we were 100 years ago. Whether this is closer than further away from a complete fall is something we don't know exactly.
Societies rise and fall but it seems each time we get back to God just like the Isrealites did. Maybe there will be some sort of revival coming. But I think there are more signs about being closer to the end that there were even 20 years ago, even 10 years ago. Its the accumulation of these deteriorating aspects that will converge into a bigger problem in the end.
Maybe we are beginning to see the death thows of the end in what is happening today in the world with the Middle East, Russia, and the other conflicts happening throughout especially Western societies whose democracies and stability is being undermined.
