Is Mary a source of Holiness?

[IamAdopted]

What the Apostles gave to us, was not a book of Scriptures, but a living Church. It is sad that so many see the need to diverge from what that Church taught to follow new ideas of their own.

The didn't give us a church.. Christ is the builder of His Church.. The Apostles preached and wrote what God gave them through the Holy Spirit.. And they wrote these that we may believe.. And that in believing God might add us to His body..

 

[vrunca]

It is sad that so many see the need to diverge from what that Church taught to follow new ideas of their own.

In speaking with many people at different times it truly feels as if some people have taken the teachings of the Apostles and picked and chose what they wanted to believe and denied the rest of the teachings, handed down from Jesus to the Apostles and still alive today.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Good question.. Why do people not vennerate King David? He as a man after Gods own heart..

Is a good question. So your Church has statues and pictures and other representations of David like ours does?

 

[Benedicta00]

Yes Jesus became flesh through Marys body..

Then we receive grace through her. Its figurative- not literal. stop making mountains out of molehills.

 

[Uphill Battle]

In speaking with many people at different times it truly feels as if some people have taken the teachings of the Apostles and picked and chose what they wanted to believe and denied the rest of the teachings, handed down from Jesus to the Apostles and still alive today.

you mean the Marian Dogmas, for example? Stuff that we have no evidence was believed, or taught, or actual truth? I understand the sincerity of your beliefs, but you have to put the shoe on the other foot, to see both sides of the argument.

 

[FrauleinElsa]

Then we receive grace through her. Its figurative- not literal. stop making mountains out of molehills.

No! That is no where in the Bible.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

I do not think anyone said we should not take Mary as an example to imitate. The question was is she a source of holiness.

And again, that claim in the OP was based on the presumption that the Catechism said she is. The sentence quoted says she is an example of holiness for us to learn from not the source of holiness.

 

[Benedicta00]

But is was God whom conceived Him by the power of the Holy Spirit.. So therefore all Holiness is in God..

Yep that's correct, are you under some crazy false impression that we think other wise?

BUT you can't deny it, try as you may, you just can't and I know this probably disappoints you but no one can deny the FACT that Jesus Christ- the total salvation package that God by the power of the Holy Spirit put together entered into this world, through Mary's womb.

 

[IamAdopted]

No! That is no where in the Bible.

No.. We do not receive any grace from Mary.. I don't care if it is figurative or not. For all blessings flow from God..

 

[vrunca]

you mean the Marian Dogmas, for example? Stuff that we have no evidence was believed, or taught, or actual truth? I understand the sincerity of your beliefs, but you have to put the shoe on the other foot, to see both sides of the argument.

Well, let's not first of all put words in my mouth, but I will go with that....but I wont even use the Dogmas, how about just showing some respect for her being the Mother of God....and for those who do not accept the Holy Trinity for the Mother of Jesus.

And yes I am most definately referring to the truths that were taught, not the "stuff" that was taken away or changed later.

And I do see both sides of the arguement ...quite often . But when we defend our faith, the one started by Jesus, we get that we are whining or we get the changes to what Jesus taught, changes brought about by people who seem to me to pick and choose what they want to believe. I don't doubt anyone's faith either, that is not my place, I leave that to God.

 

[IamAdopted]

Yep that's correct, are you under some crazy false impression that we think other wise?

BUT you can't deny it, try as you may, you just can't and I know this probably disappoints you but no one can deny the FACT that Jesus Christ- the total salvation package that God by the power of the Holy Spirit put together entered into this world, through Mary's womb.

So.. and by whose Power and destination did this happen from? Not from Mary's..

 

[FrauleinElsa]

No.. We do not receive any grace from Mary.. I don't care if it is figurative or not. For all blessings flow from God..

God bless you abundantly for having the guts to speak the truth.

 

[Benedicta00]

No! That is no where in the Bible.

Jesus coming to us through the virgin birth is not in scripture? Really?

Do you truly understand that this is all said in an analogy sense (it's not even a doctrine, my goodness) and not literal?

Let' be clear about what Catholic believe, the grace that saves any one of us comes from God the father and no one else and the savior that won those graces for us is Jesus Christ and no one else and the way he got here was by the will of God, through the power of the Holy Spirit, through Mary- no?

 

[Benedicta00]

No.. We do not receive any grace from Mary.. I don't care if it is figurative or not. For all blessings flow from God..

Who chose to enter the world through Mary. Thus grace came through Mary.

 

[IamAdopted]

Then we receive grace through her. Its figurative- not literal. stop making mountains out of molehills.

Pope Pius XII accurately reflected the Church’s view of the Virgin Mary when the Pope stood up to give this following Pontifical prayer, and I quote: “Enraptured by the splendor of your heavenly beauty and impelled by the anxieties of the world, we cast ourselves into your arms, O immaculate mother of Jesus and our mother, Mary we adore and praise the peerless richness of the sublime gifts with which God has filled you above every other mere creature from the moment of conception until the day on which your assumption into heaven He crowned you Queen of the Universe. O crystal fountain of faith, bathe our hearts with your heavenly perfume. O conqueress of evil and death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin which makes the soul detestable to God and the slave of hell. O well-beloved of God, hear the ardent cries which rise up from every heart in this year dedicated to you. Then tenderly, O Mary, cover our aching womb, convert the wicked, dry the tears of the afflicted and the oppressed. Comfort the poor and humble. Quench hatred. Sweeten harshness. Safeguard the flower of purity. Protect the holy Church. In your name resounding harmoniously in heaven, may they recognize that all are brothers and that the nations are members of one family. Receive, O sweet mother, our humble supplications and above all, obtain for us on that day, happy with you that we may repeat before your throne that hymn which is sung today around your altars, you are beautiful, O Mary, you are glory, O Mary, you are the joy, you are the honor of our people,” end quote.

So explain this to me please..

 

[Uphill Battle]

Well, let's not first of all put words in my mouth, but I will go with that....but I wont even use the Dogmas,

Didn't mean to do that, was just using an example.

how about just showing some respect for her being the Mother of God

and they should. We just find a very large stretch between respecting, and attributing to her principles and attributes that are nowhere found in scripture.

....and for those who do not accept the Holy Trinity for the Mother of Jesus.

I'm not sure what you mean with this. the trinity FOR the Mother of Jesus? Can you explain so I don't misrepresent?

And yes I am most definately referring to the truths that were taught, not the "stuff" that was taken away or changed later.

Right, that is what WE have issue with. Stuff added or changed later.

And I do see both sides of the arguement ...quite often . But when we defend our faith, the one started by Jesus, we get that we are whining or we get the changes to what Jesus taught, changes brought about by people who seem to me to pick and choose what they want to believe. I don't doubt anyone's faith either, that is not my place, I leave that to God.

I commend you for not placing judgement yourself. The RCC claims not to judge, but they seem to question the faith of all who don't believe as they do. This is subjective opinion.

 

[vrunca]

God bless you abundantly for having the guts to speak the truth.

Lol!!! who's truth...her own??

 

[IamAdopted]

Jesus coming to us through the virgin birth is not in scripture? Really?

Do you truly understand that this is all said in an analogy sense (it's not even a doctrine, my goodness) and not literal?

Let' be clear about what Catholic believe, the grace that saves any one of us comes from God the father and no one else and the savior that won those graces for us is Jesus Christ and no one else and the way he got here was by the will of God, through the power of the Holy Spirit, through Mary- no?

The bible tells us that Grace comes from God.. That Grace and truth are in Christ.. No where in the bible does it state that Mary has any source of Grace to give.. God gave us this grace by the Power of the Holy Spirit when He overshadowed Mary and she became with Child.. It is from God whom this blessing flows..

 

[Benedicta00]

So.. and by whose Power and destination did this happen from? Not from Mary's..

Didn't I say that? What are you arguing with me now about?

God is the source of grace- if it's divine grace- it comes from God alone. Mary is not the author of grace. I agree with you on this 110%.

What is the problem here?

I'm agreeing with you??

However- Catholics just don't have any phobias...we feel comfortable enough to admit, the way God ( His grace) chose to enter the world was through Mary.

i mean, how is that a false statement?

We're just not paranoid that's all...to saying that.

we don't feel it takes anything away from God or Christ. We do not eel it harms anyone or anything to say that.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by IamAdopted
No.. We do not receive any grace from Mary.. I don't care if it is figurative or not. For all blessings flow from God..

God bless you abundantly for having the guts to speak the truth.

John 7:37 And in the last, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, `If any one doth thirst, let him come unto Me and drink; 38 he who is believing in Me, according as the Writing said, Rivers out of his belly shall flow of living water;'