Is Mary a source of Holiness?

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi. She wasn't given the Power that the Disciples of Jesus were given.

(Young) Luke 10:19 lo, I give to you the authority to tread upon serpents/ofewn and scorpions, and on all the power of the enemy, and nothing by any means shall hurt you;

Matt 23:33 `Serpents/ofeiV! brood of vipers! how may ye escape from the judgment of the gehenna?

It's not an official teaching of the Church that we all have to be devoted to Mary and figuratively .. go to God through devotion her...

Whew!! Glad to hear that.

Psalms 8:5 For You have made him a little lower than the messengers, And You have crowned Him with glory and honor.

Revelation 7:12 saying: "Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom, Thanksgiving and honor and power and might, [Be] to our God forever and ever. Amen."

 

[Uphill Battle]

umm, an Encyclical is just a pastoral letter- it's not dogmatic...

This is a belief amoung those who are devoted to Mary. Which apparently this pope was...

It's not an official teaching of the Church that we all have to be devoted to Mary and figuratively .. go to God through devotion her...

you dont want to have devotion to Mary ten don't. and if this speech is extreme- as a Catholic we are free to have that opinion.

Bright Candle doesn't want to tell you that though.. does he?

bright candle has nothing to do with the matter.

Why do you keep bringing the name up?

 

[lionroar0]

Pope Pius XII accurately reflected the Church’s view of the Virgin Mary when the Pope stood up to give this following Pontifical prayer, and I quote: “Enraptured by the splendor of your heavenly beauty and impelled by the anxieties of the world, we cast ourselves into your arms, O immaculate mother of Jesus and our mother, Mary we adore and praise the peerless richness of the sublime gifts with which God has filled you above every other mere creature from the moment of conception until the day on which your assumption into heaven He crowned you Queen of the Universe.

There is nothing new here. That has not already been talked about to death in countless "Mary Threads."

Mary is the Mother of God. She carried infinity with in her womb and cared for Him. That alone is a mystery and a gift that was given to Mary. Ihus she was given sublime gifts.

Jesus is the king. In keeping with Jewish tradition the mother is the queen.

O crystal fountain of faith, bathe our hearts with your heavenly perfume. O conqueress of evil and death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin which makes the soul detestable to God and the slave of hell.

And when someone becomes a Christian haven't they conquered death and evil? Aren't they saved?

O well-beloved of God, hear the ardent cries which rise up from every heart in this year dedicated to you. Then tenderly, O Mary, cover our aching womb, convert the wicked, dry the tears of the afflicted and the oppressed.

A Catholic document written by Catholics for Catholics and thus should be read as Catholics read it.

We consider her to be part of our Christian family. She is the Mother of God and thus she is also our mother

Comfort the poor and humble. Quench hatred. Sweeten harshness. Safeguard the flower of purity. Protect the holy Church. In your name resounding harmoniously in heaven, may they recognize that all are brothers and that the nations are members of one family. Receive, O sweet mother, our humble supplications and above all, obtain for us on that day, happy with you that we may repeat before your throne that hymn which is sung today around your altars, you are beautiful, O Mary, you are glory , O Mary, you are the joy, you are the honor of our people,” end quote.

Again the mother of the king is the queen according to Jewish customs. Thus being a queen she has a throne.

She was glorified by God when He made her to be His Mother. Thus she is glory.

Being the mother of God is an honor and thus she is the honor of her people.

Again Catholics documents are to be read as Catholics understand them not what people take them to mean.


Peace

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Mary is the Mother of God. She carried infinity with in her womb and cared for Him. That alone is a mystery and a gift that was given to Mary. IThus she was given sblime gifts.

Hi. The Jews of today still view it as a "mystery".

Reve 10:7 but in the days of the sounding of the seventh messenger, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.

 

[Uphill Battle]

And when someone becomes a Christian haven't they conquered death and evil? Aren't they saved?

Disregarding all the other points, as there is wiggle room there based on understanding, I have to address this one only.

no, no 1000 times no. a Christian does NOT conquer death and evil. We have no part in it's defeat. Christ and Christ alone conquered death. Christ and Christ alone conquered evil.

There is no sidestepping this issue. It is an error, even if it is innocous.

 

[Benedicta00]

Disregarding all the other points, as there is wiggle room there based on understanding, I have to address this one only.

no, no 1000 times no. a Christian does NOT conquer death and evil. We have no part in it's defeat. Christ and Christ alone conquered death. Christ and Christ alone conquered evil.

There is no sidestepping this issue. It is an error, even if it is innocous.

I me, have victory in Christ, no?

 

[Uphill Battle]

I me, have victory in Christ, no?

is it your victory? did you acheive it?

 

[Benedicta00]

is it your victory? did you acheive it?

of course not but you don't raise eyebrows when preachers hop around on stage screaming we have won the victory do you? Nor do you freak out when you hear "I" rebuke you..." We have been given power from on high, no? To conquer evil? no? ...yes, we have.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Uphill Battle
is it your victory? did you acheive it?

of course not but you don't raise eyebrows when preachers hop around on stage screaming we have won the victory do you? Nor do you freak out when you hear "I" rebuke you..." We have been given power from on high, no? To conquer evil? no? ...yes, we have.

Victory!!!! No Mary shown here.

[SIZE=+0](Young) Revelation 15:2 and I saw as a sea of glass mingled with fire, and those who do gain the Victory over the beast, and his image, and his mark, [and] the number of his name, standing by the sea of the glass, having harps of God, [/SIZE]

 

[FrauleinElsa]

Don't you think I would know if i worshipped Mary?

Hmmmm. I wonder.

You've been duped.

I don't think so. But thanks anyway.

I disagree.her and everyone else.. my husband, my parents...

Dude, I got that definintion straight out of my dictionary. Are you going to argue with Webster? I didn't just pull it out of thin air. I looked it up to make sure I knew what it meant before I posted, thank you very much.

You are the one who need some food for thought.

Why is that? Because I disagree with you? Wow, now that's rude. Just because you have your beliefs do not make them right.

No its not true and I have to try and tell myself that you just have no clue how drastically different we see things.

No, actually I have done extensive research in the C.C. I at one time considered being Catholic, so I read up on your beliefs. I know all about what the C.C. teaches. Thank you *snaps fingers in air*

You ave made up your own criteria that you gauge everything and it's highly subjective and not at all objective.

Sorry, but I think you have misjudged me. I only use my Bible as reference. Do me a favor though. Point out one Biblical reference to...let's take Purgatory for example. Give me one Biblical truth that backs up that idea and maybe I'll consider your point of view.

I'm sorry but you cant convict me off of your lack of understanding Catholicism properly and your own interpretation of worship.

I'm not trying to. If you want to be Catholic, why should I care? What business is it of mine? And again, I did extensive reading into Catholicism. I know all about your beliefs.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You are the one who need some food for thought.

Food for thought:

[SIZE=+0](Young) Hebrews 5:12 for even owing to be teachers, because of the time, again ye have need that one teach you what [are] the elements of the beginning of the oracles of God, and ye have become having need of milk, and not of strong food, [/SIZE]

 

[Uphill Battle]

of course not but you don't raise eyebrows when preachers hop around on stage screaming we have won the victory do you? Nor do you freak out when you hear "I" rebuke you..." We have been given power from on high, no? To conquer evil? no? ...yes, we have.

you must have a strange misunderstanding of how my church operates, if you have a picture of a screaming, hopping, pastor.

That aside, when a protestant states "we have victory" we are not claiming that we won the victory. We contributed exactly nothing to the victory. In fact, we are the sole reason there needed to be a victory over death in the first place.

 

[Iollain]

*likes screaming hopping pastors*

 

[Iollain]

So what if i decide to have a devotion to Paul, and believe that all grace flows down to earth from him and he is the Mediator of Grace and the this and the that, and he is the dispenser and decision maker on the grace that flows from God to Paul..........i'd like to tell my pastor it is a private devotion and see what he tells me.

 

[IamAdopted]

Wow there is even more.. If you do not have a proper devotion to Mary you have every reason to fear that you will be damned.. Now this is so unscriptual that it sickens me..

 

[QuantaCura]

Per the OP:

You have to understand the difference between congruous merit and condign merit.

God is the ultimate source of all holiness--the codign source. Mary, through her participation in the work of our redemption and then through her constant intercession for the Church, she obtains for us the grace we need for holiness (that has been merited in a condign manner by her Son) and is therefore the source in a congruous manner.

(I hope I got the two terms correct--sometimes I get them backwards :o ).

 

[Uphill Battle]

Per the OP:

You have to understand the difference between congruous merit and condign merit.

God is the ultimate source of all holiness--the codign source. Mary, through her participation in the work of our redemption and then through her constant intercession for the Church, she obtains for us the grace we need for holiness (that has been merited in a condign manner by her Son) and is therefore the source in a congruous manner.

(I hope I got the two terms correct--sometimes I get them backwards :o ).

hate to be a stickler for detail, but the highlighted bit has zero evidence beyond RCC dogma.

 

[Iollain]

So we answer, since Mary was associated with her Son in acquiring grace for us, she will also share with him in distributing that grace to us. This fits well with the words of the Popes, who call her the administra of grace, meaning that she administers or dispenses it. So Pope Leo XIII, Iucunda semper, said:

"... when He [the Father] has been invoked with excellent prayers, our humble voice turns to Mary; in accordance with no other law than that law of conciliation and petition which was expressed as follows by St. Bernardine of Siena : 'Every grace that is communicated to this world has a threefold course. For by excellent order, it is dispensed from God to Christ, from Christ to the Virgin, from the Virgin to us.'"

--------------

So how about we say the Apostles pray continually for us and since they knew Jesus personally and were chose Apostles to lay the foundation of the church, they are now dispensing all the grace and are the decision makers of where it will go?

 

[IamAdopted]

Per the OP:

You have to understand the difference between congruous merit and condign merit.

God is the ultimate source of all holiness--the codign source. Mary, through her participation in the work of our redemption and then through her constant intercession for the Church, she obtains for us the grace we need for holiness (that has been merited in a condign manner by her Son) and is therefore the source in a congruous manner.

(I hope I got the two terms correct--sometimes I get them backwards :o ).

Where is it written that Mary intercedes for the Church? Jesus is the one that ever liveth to intercede for the Saints...

 

[Iollain]

aye, because the Holy Ghost searches us and whatever is lacking Jesus prays for us.