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It all devotional material.
but the ECF tell us a lot, so...God's holy inerrant written Word tells us very little about Mary or from Mary.
The "Holy See":Please make a note of it- bright candle or IAA who ever he really is, is providing for you stuff off of the SSPX or Traditionalist web sites who are not in union with the Holy See
but the ECF tell us a lot, so...
"Mary worship" as you ppl love to call it has been around since the very first generation of Christianity.Veneration of the Blessed Virgin Mary
"There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first possible and then impossible, even Jesus Christ our Lord."
Ignatius,To the Ephesians,7(A.D.110),in ANF,I:52
"[T]hey blessed her, saying: O God of our fathers, bless this child, and give her an everlasting name to be named in all generations. And all the people said: So be it, so be it, amen. And he brought her to the chief priests; and they blessed her, saying: O God most high, look upon this child, and bless her with the utmost blessing, which shall be for ever."
Protoevangelium of John,6:2(A.D. 150),in ANF,VIII:362
"He became man by the Virgin, in order that the disobedience which proceeded from the serpent might receive its destruction in the same manner in which it derived its origin. For Eve, who was a virgin and undefiled, having conceived the word of the serpent, brought forth disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy, when the angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her, and the power of the Highest would overshadow her: wherefore also the Holy Thing begotten of her is the Son of God; and she replied, 'Be it unto me according to thy word.' And by her has He been born, to whom we have proved so many Scriptures refer, and by whom God destroys both the serpent and those angels and men who are like him; but works deliverance from death to those who repent of their wickedness and believe upon Him."
Justin Martyr,Dialogue with Trypho,100(A.D. 155),in ANF,I:249
"[H]e was born of Mary the fair ewe."
Melito de Sardo,Easter Homily(c.A.D. 177),in PAT,I:244
"In accordance with this design, Mary the Virgin is found obedient, saying, 'Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.' But Eve was disobedient; for she did not obey when as yet she was a virgin. And even as she, having indeed a husband, Adam, but being nevertheless as yet a virgin (for in Paradise 'they were both naked, and were not ashamed,' inasmuch as they, having been created a short time previously, had no understanding of the procreation of children: for it was necessary that they should first come to adult age, and then multiply from that time onward), having become disobedient, was made the cause of death, both to herself and to the entire human race; so also did Mary, having a man betrothed [to her], and being nevertheless a virgin, by yielding obedience, become the cause of salvation, both to herself and the whole human race. And on this account does the law term a woman betrothed to a man, the wife of him who had betrothed her, although she was as yet a virgin; thus indicating the back-reference from Mary to Eve, because what is joined together could not otherwise be put asunder than by inversion of the process by which these bonds of union had arisen; s so that the former ties be cancelled by the latter, that the latter may set the former again at liberty. And it has, in fact, happened that the first compact looses from the second tie, but that the second tie takes the position of the first which has been cancelled. For this reason did the Lord declare that the first should in truth be last, and the last first. And the prophet, too, indicates the same, saying, "instead of fathers, children have been born unto thee.' For the Lord, having been born "the First-begotten of the dead,' and receiving into His bosom the ancient fathers, has regenerated them into the life of God, He having been made Himself the beginning of those that live, as Adam became the beginning of those who die. Wherefore also Luke, commencing the genealogy with the Lord, carried it back to Adam, indicating that it was He who regenerated them into the Gospel of life, and not they Him. And thus also it was that the knot of Eve's disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. For what the virgin Eve had bound fast through unbelief, this did the virgin Mary set free through faith."
Irenaeus,Against Heresies,3:22(A.D. 180),in ANF,I:455
Justin Martyr, Ignatius, Irenaeus... they all lived during the apostolic generation, so hardly...
but somehow I think you you feel that you and your view of the bible know better than those who lived in the apostle's own time.
"Mary worship" as you ppl love to call it has been around since the very first generation of Christianity.
Hi. Did the ECF's look to the Pope as the Holy See back then?Please make a note of it- bright candle or IAA who ever he really is, is providing for you stuff off of the SSPX or Traditionalist web sites who are not in union with the Holy See
there are very large differences between what is written here, and what we find in later works.Justin Martyr, Ignatius, Irenaeus... they all lived during the apostolic generation, so hardly...
but somehow I think you you feel that you and your view of the bible know better than those who lived in the apostle's own time.
"Mary worship" as you ppl love to call it has been around since the very first generation of Christianity.
all I did was ask you to read what I wrote. YOU assume alot in saying I said you worship Mary. That is NOT what I said. Please keep in context what I did say.okay... so its like that. So much for trying to reason with people. Believe what you want about us.
I really don't care anymore.
but the ECF tell us a lot, so...
You are the expert on the writers the CC has called "Early Church Fathers," not me, but I've never seen any snippet from anyone who lived during the time of the Apostles who said anything about Mary that Protestants wouldn't agree with.
Now, beginning around the mid Third Century, then I think there are some differnces. But, of course, none of those writters ever met an Apostle or Mary - or anyone who did. And of course, the dogmatization of some of these Marian views are amazingly late - Protestants are often shocked by how late.
But I'm not equating my lack of embrace of some Catholic Marian dogmas (I don't reject them either) with my devotion for Mary - which is squarely based on Scripture.
Thank you.
Pax!
- Josiah
You are the expert on the writers the CC has called "Early Church Fathers," not me, but I've never seen any snippet from anyone who lived during the time of the Apostles who said anything about Mary that Protestants wouldn't agree with.
Now, beginning around the mid Third Century, then I think there are some differnces. But, of course, none of those writters ever met an Apostle or Mary - or anyone who did. And of course, the dogmatization of some of these Marian views are amazingly late - Protestants are often shocked by how late.
But I'm not equating my lack of embrace of some Catholic Marian dogmas (I don't reject them either) with my devotion for Mary - which is squarely based on Scripture.
Thank you.
Pax!
- Josiah
Yes, but this has to do with what???....what is your point? Still doesn't make her our source.Did Jesus come to us through Mary's body, yes or no?
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Yes, but only to be born. Birth has nothig to do with what is being discussed. Let's get real here. You want us to say that no one comes to faith in Jesus except through His mother, that salvation first comes from her. And as Prostestants we just aren't going to say that because
a) that theology is found no where in the Bible and
b) that's not what we believe to be true.
In my opinion no. And I'll explain. It's because that's not what I was taught, it's not how I view the Scriptures, and it's just not what I believe. I think there is a reason why Mary isn't mentioned very much in the Bible. I think it's so we don't place an un-healthy emphasis on her. Which in my opinion some have. I'm not pointing fingers or anything, but it's just what I feel.
Josiah what do you mean, your devotion to Mary?
Hi. There actually were 2 types of "Queens".The only book of the Bible that was after Mary had died was the Revelation of John. In this book, John was more free than any other NT writer in writing the importance of Mary. There was no fear any more that the ememies would capture her and torture her. So John was free to describe Mary as being in heaven with crown of stars on herb head and the moon at her feet. John described Mary as the Queen of Heaven.
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