Is life a good or bad thing for Christians?

[renniks]

If your christian theology considers that the sufferings we endure in this current life are for our good, I don't know what could be better but if not, he could give us both joys, the spiritual one and the concrete one (by the mean of miracles for example).

And sometimes he does, but I've found that the miracles are usually things someone else might see as coincidence, but because they are tailor-made for my unique situation, I hear them as God's voice.
"Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. Romans 5:4

 

[durangodawood]

If one of the frequent consequences of life is eternal torment in hell, I'd say life, on balance, is an exceedingly negative situation.

 

[MehGuy]

When I was a Christian, I thought suffering in life was part of the plan. Suffering in my mind was the only way one could become holier. The angels were lesser than man, because they were spared a physicals body that could endure pain. The idea that God would subject himself to human body fit well with my spiritual philosophy.

As for paradise, I believed there was a time for everything. Human souls needed to be cooked in pain for a time to gain value. After that, I believed we were called to be subjected to something else. Something beyond the concepts of pleasure or pain.

 

[Not David]

When I was a Christian, I thought suffering in life was part of the plan. Suffering in my mind was the only way one could become holier. The angels were lesser than man, because they were spared a physicals body that could endure pain. The idea that God would subject himself to human body fit well with my spiritual philosophy.

As for paradise, I believed there was a time for everything. Human souls needed to be cooked in pain for a time to gain value. After that, I believed we were called to be subjected to something else. Something beyond the concepts of pleasure or pain.

Interesting, we had a discussion at the Orthodox Forum that Roman Catholicism seems to exalt suffering even in Christ's crucifixion.

 

[FireDragon76]

Ok thanks for your answers!


But the Dalai Lama seems pretty happy, he smiles on pretty much all the photo I saw of him on Google Images.

Yup. It more or less contradicts the polemic that Buddhism is negative.

If you have nothing left to lose, what is there to be negative about? As Shunryu Suzuki used to say "no self, no problem".

I know from experience meditation helped me overcome depression. That in itself gives a certain validity to Buddhism that Christianity frankly lacks. Practicing mindfulness helps me enjoy life more.

 

[MehGuy]

Interesting, we had a discussion at the Orthodox Forum that Roman Catholicism seems to exalt suffering even in Christ's crucifixion.

Cool. Most of the Christians I admire are Catholic, and have been dead for centuries. Lol. I cannot really think of any contemporary Christians I admire.

Personally I grew up protestant (non-denominational). Never really saw eye to eye with my non-denominational peers. I would have probably found a better fit if I grew up in a Catholic environment. Still, towards the end of my spiritual days I was drifting away from Christianity and more to a pure form of suffering mysticism.

Since I viewed suffering as "holy", I veered away from the idea that suffering existed because it was a punishment for mankind drifting away from God. Also I found the idea of hell offensive because it showed suffering in a bad light, lol..

I don't know, if I didn't fall into atheism I'd probably be some sort of free agent pagan or developed my own suffering mysticism religion by now.. lol.

 

[Not David]

Cool. Most of the Christians I admire are Catholic, and have been dead for centuries. Lol. I cannot really think of any contemporary Christians I admire.

Personally I grew up protestant (non-denominational). Never really saw eye to eye with my non-denominational peers. I would have probably found a better fit if I grew up in a Catholic environment. Still, towards the end of my spiritual days I was drifting away from Christianity and more to a pure form of suffering mysticism.

Since I viewed suffering as "holy", I veered away from the idea that suffering existed because it was a punishment for mankind drifting away from God. Also I found the idea of hell offensive because it showed suffering in a bad light, lol..

I don't know, if I didn't fall into atheism I'd probably be some sort of free agent pagan or developed my own suffering mysticism religion by now.. lol.

That's interesting. I would say that although we can learn from suffering and that sometimes good stuff might come from it, suffering it is not good per se.

 

[MehGuy]

That's interesting. I would say that although we can learn from suffering and that sometimes good stuff might come from it, suffering it is not good per se.

Well, as an atheist I now consider my past spiritualty to be immoral. Even if it is a sore spot to admit. Once I lost my faith it was like a mental bubble burst and I suddenly saw my personal Christian faith in a more disgusting light that I was unable to before. Still, I am not sure how much I can stomach trying to reconcile an all loving God with the problem of evil/suffering and how much better that viewpoint really is.

 

[Not David]

Well, as an atheist I now consider my past spiritualty to be immoral. Even if it is a sore spot to admit. Once I lost my faith it was like a mental bubble burst and I suddenly saw my personal Christian faith in a more disgusting light that I was unable to before. Still, I am not sure how much I can stomach trying to reconcile an all loving God with the problem of evil/suffering and how much better that viewpoint really is.

I believe it could be a topic for another thread. Thanks for sharing your thoughts though.

 

[MehGuy]

I believe it could be a topic for another thread. Thanks for sharing your thoughts though.

Yeah, I am getting a little off topic.

Would make for an interesting thread.

 

[Gogogo]

Thanks for your answers!

If you have nothing left to lose, what is there to be negative about? As Shunryu Suzuki used to say "no self, no problem".

Yes but Buddhists have still the Nirvana to win even if they have many lives for winning it.
But I doubt there is a religion where one has nothing to win.

I know from experience meditation helped me overcome depression. That in itself gives a certain validity to Buddhism that Christianity frankly lacks. Practicing mindfulness helps me enjoy life more.

Yeah meditation is a very appealing part of Buddhism.

 

[FireDragon76]

Thanks for your answers!


Yes but Buddhists have still the Nirvana to win even if they have many lives for winning it.
But I doubt there is a religion where one has nothing to win.

This is a simplistic, dualistic way to describe Buddhist praxis, frankly.

Nirvana is here and now, not in some other place. Nirvana is merely Samsara perceived correctly.

 

[Gogogo]

Thanks for your answers.

This is a simplistic, dualistic way to describe Buddhist praxis, frankly.

Nirvana is here and now, not in some other place. Nirvana is merely Samsara perceived correctly.

The world is like an illusion to you?
Do you can perceive Nirvana without attaining the end of your reincarnation cycle? (by the mean of meditation for example)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If one of the frequent consequences of life is eternal torment in hell, I'd say life, on balance, is an exceedingly negative situation.

Not only , or not even considering that,
remember
life on earth, in worldly society, is pernicious,
is deceptive,
painful,
misleading,
full of killers,
liars,
thieves,
perverts,
adulterers,
idolators,
oppressors,
and much more wickednesses and evil than anyone can possibly imagine in their lifetime.

So why would you consider that negative ?

 

[FireDragon76]

Thanks for your answers.


The world is like an illusion to you?

Yes and no.

Do you can perceive Nirvana without attaining the end of your reincarnation cycle? (by the mean of meditation for example)

I don't think of Buddhism primarily in that manner. That's importing Evangelical Christian categories onto the subject.

 

[brinny]

Ok thanks for your answers!


But the Dalai Lama seems pretty happy, he smiles on pretty much all the photo I saw of him on Google Images.

Did Jesus Christ always "look" happy? Was He always "happy"?

Was Jesus always "smiling"?

(i will elaborate if you wish.).

 

[fwGod]

Hello,

Is life a good or bad thing for Christians?
And if it's a good thing, how do you explain that the “Paradise“ of one of the major religion of the world consist in getting out of the cycle of life (Nirvana with Buddhism) ?
If it doesn't happen like that in Buddhism, correct me please, I am ignorant about this religion.

Thank you for your answers!

The Buddhist religion requires the adherent to find a way out of the hardships of life on their own.

The Christian religion states that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross provided deliverance from the hardships of life for those who accept what he did on their behalf.

Do you see the difference?

 

[durangodawood]

Not only , or not even considering that,
remember
life on earth, in worldly society, is pernicious,
is deceptive,
painful,
misleading,
full of killers,
liars,
thieves,
perverts,
adulterers,
idolators,
oppressors,
and much more wickednesses and evil than anyone can possibly imagine in their lifetime.

So why would you consider that negative ?

Do all of the above negatives you mention outweigh the positives, in your opinion?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Do all of the above negatives you mention outweigh the positives, in your opinion?

What positives are you thinking of or referring to ? ....

p.s. "my opinion" lasts about a few seconds (our lives are like flowers that bloom today and are dried up and thrown in the fire tomorrow) . God's Word lasts FOREVER, so , God Willing, The answer (about positive aspects) , is /will be/ from His Word, Truth, not opinion. Thanks , and Jesus' Shalom to you and your household today!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Did Jesus Christ always "look" happy?

No.

Was He always "happy"?

No.

Was Jesus always "smiling"?

No.

(i will elaborate if you wish.).

Cool - look forward to that ....