Is it wrong to want to die?

[disciple Clint]

Very noble. Since this was not about any particular invidual but rather a theoretical case of a person getting obese because of his sloppy eating habits and lack of exercise due to him or her not bothering to do so is it God's plan to call him home early or lack of invidual effort and appriciation for the time given to us on this planet ?

OK what I have apparently not made clear is that God can call anyone at anytime all those conditions that you have listed do not change what God will do for reasons only known to Him.

 

[Homeowner]

OK what I have apparently not made clear is that God can call anyone at anytime all those conditions that you have listed do not change what God will do for reasons only known to Him.

So deciding not to look after your mortal body is fine because God can call you anytime anyway ? Seems tad fatalistic....

 

[Xavier363]

Hello EnterLight:

IMHO wanting to control the end of your life is not only not wrong, but the intelligent thing to do. I'm in my 50's now and I've been considering the end of my life since I was about 8 years old. Just as it is prudent to have life insurance to provide for your dependents and loved ones during life, having end of life directives is smart. I, as an example, would definitely not wish to live for years in a vegetative state. I would not want to be forced to continue living with a long term painful disease. My life is my own. I very much insist that I have the authority to dictate how the remainder of my life unfolds. On this, I will not submit to the wishes / beliefs of others. I'm pleased that society has progressed, at least, to the point where physician assisted suicide is now an option for terminally ill people, but I do not think that goes far enough. No one can demand that, regardless of my quality of life, that I must continue living against my wishes. No one. If someone tells you that their book says that you must (blah, blah, blah...) tell them they should read other books.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Xaver

 

[Servus]

First, I want to start out saying that I'm not suicidal or anything like that. I was just curious and pondering on the thought of why do people often think it's wrong if someone feels like they want to die. Don't majority of us here long to be together with the lord?

I often have feelings of not wanting to be here or feeling out of place in the world but the thought of being in heaven, with God, lost loved ones, without medical issues, aging, pain. All seem like very reasonable things that us Christians would look forward to.

Would love to hear your take.

For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. Philippians 1:21-22

 

[Rajni]

Hello EnterLight:

IMHO wanting to control the end of your life is not only not wrong, but the intelligent thing to do. I'm in my 50's now and I've been considering the end of my life since I was about 8 years old. Just as it is prudent to have life insurance to provide for your dependents and loved ones during life, having end of life directives is smart. I, as an example, would definitely not wish to live for years in a vegetative state. I would not want to be forced to continue living with a long term painful disease. My life is my own. I very much insist that I have the authority to dictate how the remainder of my life unfolds. On this, I will not submit to the wishes / beliefs of others. I'm pleased that society has progressed, at least, to the point where physician assisted suicide is now an option for terminally ill people, but I do not think that goes far enough. No one can demand that, regardless of my quality of life, that I must continue living against my wishes. No one. If someone tells you that their book says that you must (blah, blah, blah...) tell them they should read other books.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Xaver

Yeah, I've thought about those things too as I've gotten older.

I've gotten the general impression that landing in a nursing-home isn't really ideal. And even having one's own adult kids as caregivers can be hard, causing strain in that relationship. I observed this in my own family, when my dad and his wife took care of his wife's mother in her old age. I wouldn't mind being escorted to the Rainbow Bridge if and when my quality of life takes a nose-dive, much like what is done with beloved pets in that situation. I feel I've lived a full life already; I don't want to look a gift-horse in the mouth by trying to get away with as many years as I can no matter what. That said, I would prefer that the Lord make that executive decision rather than me. After all, I could get to that proverbial Rainbow Bridge and, instead of happily crossing it, I'd throw gasoline on it, light a match to it, and run screaming in the opposite direction! Life is full of surprises that way!

 

[Nithavela]

Considering death is inevitable, why should it be wrong?

 

[Xavier363]

Yeah, I've thought about those things too as I've gotten older.

I've gotten the general impression that landing in a nursing-home isn't really ideal. And even having one's own adult kids as caregivers can be hard, causing strain in that relationship. I observed this in my own family, when my dad and his wife took care of his wife's mother in her old age. I wouldn't mind being escorted to the Rainbow Bridge if and when my quality of life takes a nose-dive, much like what is done with beloved pets in that situation. I feel I've lived a full life already; I don't want to look a gift-horse in the mouth by trying to get away with as many years as I can no matter what. That said, I would prefer that the Lord make that executive decision rather than me. After all, I could get to that proverbial Rainbow Bridge and, instead of happily crossing it, I'd throw gasoline on it, light a match to it, and run screaming in the opposite direction! Life is full of surprises that way!

Hi Rajni: I've thought of an invention that if available, I'd have it installed immediately. Imagine a device that could be implanted somewhere in your body that would be inconspicuous. This device would have an interface that could be accessed, say, by tapping out a complicated pattern - think the beat of a song that you like. This device could be programmed with whatever time delay that you would like: 6 months, 2 years, etc. Each time you tap in the correct pattern, you reset the clock. Failure to tap in the correct pattern before it times out - a painless poison is released into your system and you die peacefully. One of my great fears is to become a quadriplegic, or to suffer from alzheimers - removing my autonomy to control my life, and by extension, my death. Stop being able to physically or mentally tap in the code, and you are gone. I'd not like to be one to beta test it, but once it was reliable, I'd opt for it immediately. It would take away the uncertainty, and the possible burden on my family if I was no longer able to physically and rationally be "me".

 

[disciple Clint]

Hi Rajni: I've thought of an invention that if available, I'd have it installed immediately. Imagine a device that could be implanted somewhere in your body that would be inconspicuous. This device would have an interface that could be accessed, say, by tapping out a complicated pattern - think the beat of a song that you like. This device could be programmed with whatever time delay that you would like: 6 months, 2 years, etc. Each time you tap in the correct pattern, you reset the clock. Failure to tap in the correct pattern before it times out - a painless poison is released into your system and you die peacefully. One of my great fears is to become a quadriplegic, or to suffer from alzheimers - removing my autonomy to control my life, and by extension, my death. Stop being able to physically or mentally tap in the code, and you are gone. I'd not like to be one to beta test it, but once it was reliable, I'd opt for it immediately. It would take away the uncertainty, and the possible burden on my family if I was no longer able to physically and rationally be "me".

That seems to be very self centered, what about your value to others, shouldn't those who love you get some input. Think for example would it be better to have a dad you could talk with even it he was a quadriplegic than to have no input from your father at all?

 

[Xavier363]

That seems to be very self centered, what about your value to others, shouldn't those who love you get some input. Think for example would it be better to have a dad you could talk with even it he was a quadriplegic than to have no input from your father at all?

Hi Clint: No. Absolutely not. Please give me a reason why others should have control over my life. My life is mine. No one can force me to suffer until a "natural" death if I do not wish it. Yes, I agree that I have value to others - I have family and friends which I love dearly. If I had a family member who was a quadriplegic and wanted to continue living - fine. No problem. I would not want to live under that condition. Everyone of my friends and family know this about me. For any one of them to try to step in and thwart my wishes would be unforgivable. Again, my life is mine. Live yours as you desire, I intend to do the same. Make sense?

 

[disciple Clint]

Hi Clint: No. Absolutely not. Please give me a reason why others should have control over my life. My life is mine. No one can force me to suffer until a "natural" death if I do not wish it. Yes, I agree that I have value to others - I have family and friends which I love dearly. If I had a family member who was a quadriplegic and wanted to continue living - fine. No problem. I would not want to live under that condition. Everyone of my friends and family know this about me. For any one of them to try to step in and thwart my wishes would be unforgivable. Again, my life is mine. Live yours as you desire, I intend to do the same. Make sense?

A reason, I guess it might be the same reason why we put our children first ahead of what we want and we sacrifice for them out of love. We are not alone, the loss of everyone of us impacts others. Our life is not our own, it was given to us.

 

[Xavier363]

A reason, I guess it might be the same reason why we put our children first ahead of what we want and we sacrifice for them out of love. We are not alone, the loss of everyone of us impacts others. Our life is not our own, it was given to us.

Hi Clint: I have no children, a choice I made, ironically, as a child. So that issue would not apply to me. If it applies to you, that's fine. Yes, my death will impact those around me. But, none around me have the authority to dictate what happens in my life - especially if I was incapacitated. I would never think that I would have the authority over my friends or family to dictate how they were to live their lives. To put it in another way: If we are all equal, no one has the right to control others. At best, it is a tie. In a tie, no one wins or has the right to control others. We are all our own people. You mentioned that our lives are not our own - I do not believe that. Why do you? Is that why you find my position uncomfortable?

 

[disciple Clint]

Hi Clint: I have no children, a choice I made, ironically, as a child. So that issue would not apply to me. If it applies to you, that's fine. Yes, my death will impact those around me. But, none around me have the authority to dictate what happens in my life - especially if I was incapacitated. I would never think that I would have the authority over my friends or family to dictate how they were to live their lives. To put it in another way: If we are all equal, no one has the right to control others. At best, it is a tie. In a tie, no one wins or has the right to control others. We are all our own people. You mentioned that our lives are not our own - I do not believe that. Why do you? Is that why you find my position uncomfortable?

Yes my Christian beliefs are no doubt part of it but it goes to my belief that we are not all about ourselves, everything we do effects others, sometimes even people we do not know and in ways we do not anticipate. I do not see it as being forced to do anything by anyone one, I would never go along with that, instead I see it as being responsible for the consequences of my actions. And maybe it is because I do not believe in giving up, I may not win but I will not quit.

 

[Xavier363]

Yes my Christian beliefs are no doubt part of it but it goes to my belief that we are not all about ourselves, everything we do effects others, sometimes even people we do not know and in ways we do not anticipate. I do not see it as being forced to do anything by anyone one, I would never go along with that, instead I see it as being responsible for the consequences of my actions. And maybe it is because I do not believe in giving up, I may not win but I will not quit.

Hi Clint: I agree that my life affects others. I'd also agree that my life may affect others in ways that I cannot predict. Pretend that you and I know each other very well. Friends for years and years. You know my wishes. I am involved in a car crash / skydiving accident and I now can do nothing more than blink while I'm intubated and being fed through a tube in my stomach. My body was previously healthy and with the help of the machines keeping me alive, I'll likely live for many years. You, and all my other friends know that this is my nightmare. You know that I would not, and do not want to live this way. Please justify to me denying me my wish to end my life in these conditions.

 

[disciple Clint]

Hi Clint: I agree that my life affects others. I'd also agree that my life may affect others in ways that I cannot predict. Pretend that you and I know each other very well. Friends for years and years. You know my wishes. I am involved in a car crash / skydiving accident and I now can do nothing more than blink while I'm intubated and being fed through a tube in my stomach. My body was previously healthy and with the help of the machines keeping me alive, I'll likely live for many years. You, and all my other friends know that this is my nightmare. You know that I would not, and do not want to live this way. Please justify to me denying me my wish to end my life in these conditions.

ending your life or ending anyone's life for that reason is beyond my pay grade and I have no way to know if your wishes may have changed after the trauma you experienced. I can respect your wishes to the degree that I can ensure that no heroic measures are taken to extend your life, but I will not kill you and that is what you are asking me to do.

 

[Xavier363]

ending your life or ending anyone's life for that reason is beyond my pay grade and I have no way to know if your wishes may have changed after the trauma you experienced. I can respect your wishes to the degree that I can ensure that no heroic measures are taken to extend your life, but I will not kill you and that is what you are asking me to do.

Hi Clint: No, I'm not asking you to kill me. That would be beyond what I would ask. I'm simply asking you to get out of my way. I'm simply demanding that you do not take actions to go against my wishes. The start of this conversation was my idea of a device that would end my life if I failed to reset the clock. All I'm asking is that you do not go against my wishes and reset the clock. Make sense now?

 

[disciple Clint]

Hi Clint: No, I'm not asking you to kill me. That would be beyond what I would ask. I'm simply asking you to get out of my way. I'm simply demanding that you do not take actions to go against my wishes. The start of this conversation was my idea of a device that would end my life if I failed to reset the clock. All I'm asking is that you do not go against my wishes and reset the clock. Make sense now?

We are not going to be able to resolve this, we have different views of the value of life and our responsibilities. It has been a good discussion, I hope you at least will consider a different view. Best wishes.

 

[Xavier363]

We are not going to be able to resolve this, we have different views of the value of life and our responsibilities. It has been a good discussion, I hope you at least will consider a different view. Best wishes.

Hi Clint: I'll not force you to continue the discussion. We obviously do have different view on the value of life. I would hope that you would consider my view on my life. You are very much free to live your life as you wish. I just hope that if the worst happens in mine that people with your view of my life are not in any way able to thwart my wishes. I hope to live another 10 ~ 15 years in good health. After that, please don't tread on me.

 

[Xavier363]

Sigh, my lady's sister will likely die in the next year or so. We talked about it tonight. It was rough. My lady's mother died almost a year ago, and now she will be going through the process again with her sister. We were all (eventually) happy that "mom" died quickly, though unexpectedly. Now her sister is declining. Weirdly, I feel that it would be better if she was hit by a bus on the way to chemo. Not sure she would feel the same way.

 

[disciple Clint]

Sigh, my lady's sister will likely die in the next year or so. We talked about it tonight. It was rough. My lady's mother died almost a year ago, and now she will be going through the process again with her sister. We were all (eventually) happy that "mom" died quickly, though unexpectedly. Now her sister is declining. Weirdly, I feel that it would be better if she was hit by a bus on the way to chemo. Not sure she would feel the same way.

I will pray that God will help all of you in this difficult time, you could do that too, God would understand.

 

[Xavier363]

I will pray that God will help all of you in this difficult time, you could do that too, God would understand.

Thanks for the thoughts, but I bet I'd do just as well to write a letter to Santa. I mean, go ahead and pray, but we will all do better to talk it out. Whether together, or possibly with licensed therapists. If I find a therapist that recommends prayer, I'll have to walk out. And that therapist will not get paid. And will get reported.