Is it wrong to listen to Heavy Metal and Ozzie Osborne?

[Ivan57]

Yeah it's funny how that works. What is permissible for one person is between them and God, and we shouldn't encourage or discourage someone to do something based on our experience, but tell them to pray and seek it out for themselves.

I've actually been removing a lot of music from my past, on one hand to clean it up as I got tired of it, but on the other because I realized a lot of songs had meanings that, like you said, didn't bother me then but bother me now. Not that they were super evil or anything (some startled me, when I was young A. I couldn't understand what they were saying half the time, I never listened to lyrics B. I never fully grasped it or paid attention), but just definitely not beneficial. One thing I have been recently learning is to not settle for what's merely "permissible" but what is good. It's definitely ok to enjoy secular music and things like that, but sometimes I would listen to music too much. It's learning to not be attached, and enjoy it as a gift but let God direct it.

Also some of my REALLLY heavy music I only really listen to when I work out or am doing something intense, as it helps me be energetic haha.

 

[~Anastasia~]

By the way just to clarify - when I mention sacred music, I don't mean the typical "contemporary worship" songs. They are their own genre, and some of them are quite good and had a great impact on me - at least some from about the late 90s (before really as I have older ones) up to around 2011 or so.

But contemporary worship is usually just soft rock or pop set to "Christian themed" lyrics. They range from very good to might-as-well-listen-to-secular, but it's only the words that really vary.


But when I say sacred music, I mean what is heard within the services of the Church. There is something utterly sublime about chant.

Particularly my suggestion to try it for a few days and see what happens, if you want - really applies only to this sort of music. Simply substituting Christian lyrics for secular ones, but keeping the same rhythms and instruments, isn't going to make a profound impact quickly.

(And in case I've been misunderstood, I'm not judging anyone. I'm actually more inclined not to be TOO "obsessively pious" in most things. It's just that as I said at the start, music is special in the way I interact with it, not that everyone else is the same. I suppose that's why I'm working very hard to hopefully one day be able to be a creditable chanter. I actually didn't "like" Orthodox chant when I first heard it in a recording. Being in Church, it is a different experience for me.)

 

[R. Hartono]

If we want to live in Holy Spirit we'd better listen to Spiritual/Gospel songs.

 

[Platina]

Ultimately, we should be preparing our souls to dwell eternally in Heaven. I don't think those are the kinds of sounds we'll be hearing there, so we don't want to take a love for such music into the afterlife with us...

 

[frater_domus]

Depends. Does it cause you to stumble? If so? Leave it. If no, go for it. Personally, I do not mind secular metal. Sure, I consider some lyrics tasteless and I prefer Christian metal, but I tend to block those negatives out and instead enjoy the parts that I appeciate.

 

[Haipule]

There is a lot of good music out there, and a lot of bad music out there. It's my own personal opinion about what I deem is good vs. disco, which is pure EVIL!

I LOVE Ozzy and Black Sabbath since I was a kid! And at that time, Led Zeppelin. I loved the LA punk rock scene as that was my youth culture: Dead Kennedy's, Black Flag, The Dickies. Some later bands, Johnny Monster and the Nightmares, Satan's Pilgrims, Floggin' Molly. I am a guitar player myself and played with punk bands in that era which was totally fun! I was 21yrs old in 1980 and living in Orange County CA, right in the middle of it all! IT was GLOREOUS!

Music is just music! God invented it! Some of the word's are stupid though and some are rather smart! Who cares! Musicianship is appreciated by me independent of some stupid, or brilliant, words. Tommy Iommi Rocked! As did Jimmy Page and Jimi Hendrix!

 

[Neogaia777]

You know (and without getting into details) I've actually heard what some of the music in heaven is actually going to be like and got a "taste" of it... And nothing, "NOTHING on earth" right now can even begin to compare to it... "All other music" Christian, non-Christian, "whatever" they all fall way, way very far and "equally short" of it...

Let's just say you'll be very very much "in awe" of it, nothing here on earth can even begin to compare to it...

No genre on earth can encompass it, or even begin to categorize it, or compare to it, it transcends all genres we know of, and is all of them and more all blended so very gloriously and harmoniously together into one...

Mere words fail to be able to describe it... And mere words fail to describe how it will make you feel also...

Oh how I long to hear it one day again... It is so very literally "indescribable" and "incomprehensible" to us right now...

That's all I've got to say...

God Bless!

 

[Mel2020]

I like the way many of Ozzie Osborne's and Black Sabbath's songs sound. Ozzie Osborne is known to bite the heads off animals and have a satanic appearance. Supposedly he has stopped doing drugs and become quite religious in the Church of England.

Even if Ozzie Osborne is a Hell-bound Satanist, would it be wrong to listen to his music? There are plenty of raunchy country singers, but I don't see too many Christians condemning country music.

His song, Mr Crowley, sounds like it's condemning the famous occultist Allister Crowley.
"Mr. Crowley, what went wrong in your head?
Oh, Mr. Crowley, did you talk with the dead?
Your life style to me seemed so tragic
With the thrill of it all
You fooled all the people with magic
You waited on Satan's call
Mr. Charming, did you think you were pure
Mr. Alarming, in nocturnal rapport
Uncovering things that were sacred manifest on this Earth
Conceived in the eye of a secret
And they scattered the afterbirth"

1 John 1:5 English Standard Version (ESV)
Walking in the Light
“This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.”

Just be careful and not fall into the trap of following the ways of the world. For we are not a part of this world if we believe in Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit will reveal to you whether it’s through your conscience (which I’m sure this is why you created this thread in the first place) or the Holy Spirit.

May the peace of Christ be with you.

 

[nutroll]

From the Seventh Ecumenical Council:

"The same principle applies to books. If one describes in books shameful stories, these books are shameful and to be rejected, alien to what a Christian should hear. But if they contain words and narratives which are inspired by God and lead to piety, they are worthy of praise and acceptance, and worthy of the Church of God."

"Every vulgar art which deviates from the purpose of God's commandments must be renounced. However, those arts which do not do so but are useful in our life, if there is nothing improper in them, were neither despised nor rejected by our holy Fathers. Thus, the art of painting, if used in order to depict obscenities, is despicable and harmful. Painting pornographic designs and scenes, the gyrations of dancing and scenes of horse-races, or anything similar presented through art, is a dishonourable endeavour."

 

[ArmyMatt]

Even the songs that don't have any bad lyrics? I wouldn't listen to any song of any genre that has lyrics about sex and blasphemy.

yep, because even the name Black Sabbath says something about the band.

 

[Neogaia777]

I guess you guys have the monopoly on what is to be considered good and/or bad "art" then...?

God Bless!

 

[~Anastasia~]

I guess you guys have the monopoly on what is to be considered good and/or bad "art" then...?

God Bless!

We just have particular considerations of how we are to live our lives.

Protestants usually focus on either whether a thing is good or bad in a legalistic sense, or else they consider how they personally are allowed to act. But that's what comes from a legal model.

We are more focused on transformation and healing of the soul from the effects of sin, and removing attachments to worldly things, so there are things we consider in this and reasons for our choices.

It's a different lens through which we view salvation, so the approach is going to be different. It's not meant to be offensive. It's just that Catholics made some changes in their approach and so Protestants are necessarily unlike us in some basic ways, since they evolved from Catholic thinking.

God be with you.

 

[Neogaia777]

We just have particular considerations of how we are to live our lives.

Protestants usually focus on either whether a thing is good or bad in a legalistic sense, or else they consider how they personally are allowed to act. But that's what comes from a legal model.

We are more focused on transformation and healing of the soul from the effects of sin, and removing attachments to worldly things, so there are things we consider in this and reasons for our choices.

It's a different lens through which we view salvation, so the approach is going to be different. It's not meant to be offensive. It's just that Catholics made some changes in their approach and so Protestants are necessarily unlike us in some basic ways, since they evolved from Catholic thinking.

God be with you.

I'm just trying to say that as individuals, we all each have a different stance on it, especially things like "art" for example...

But I too (now, but not always) (and that's another issue as well) stay out of the world and worldly things for the most part now, and am mainly involved with mainly only Christian things now... But that's because a lot of worldly things bother me much more now than they use too...

But it was not always that way though... And I just can't help but think, "Who am I to judge" (in that area)...?

Or who sees what kind of beauty or not, in this or that thing or another...? What's that saying...? "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"...?

Anyway, were all very unique that way...

God Bless!

 

[~Anastasia~]

I'm just trying to say that as individuals, we all each have a different stance on it, especially things like "art" for example...

But I too (now, but not always) (and that's another issue as well) stay out of the world and worldly things for the most part now, and am mainly involved with mainly only Christian things now... But that's because a lot of worldly things bother me much more now than they use too...

But it was not always that way though... And I just can't help but think, "Who am I to judge" (in that area)...?

Or who sees what kind of beauty or not, in this or that thing or another...? What's that saying...? "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"...?

Anyway, were all very unique that way...

God Bless!

Protestants love God too, and the Holy Spirit desires to help them also. So I would expect a great degree of convergence in how He leads us.

Also, I know it might sound like it (again, please remember our approach is just very different) but it is also very important to us that we are NOT judging anyone. That is NOT our place. The replies given here are only because our brother asked for advice. Ultimately what he or anyone else decides or does is between themselves and God, with help from their priest or elder or spiritual father - what have you - to the degree they accept their help.

What is not really typical for Orthodoxy is to say "all of xyz is bad" (unless it really is, but anything artistic doesn't fit that as you commented). It's also not really typical for us to try to find our own threshold so that we can walk as close to the edge as possible, as I noted earlier. (By the way, I'm NOT saying that all Protestants do this, but some do - they consider the allowable-ness of a thing or whether it's really sin, so that naturally leads to these kinds of conclusions.) Protestants are also very likely to look at everything as individualistic - how I decide, what this means to me, what I can tolerate.

Frankly, relying on oneself - while you CAN get good answers - you can also get bad ones. If a person is immature, or attached to sin, or under delusion, how can they trust that their heart is convincing them that they can play safely with something that might damage others? There's potentially a little pride revealed in that opinion right there that needs to be examined. We are taught to look for such pitfalls and try to avoid them.

It's just a different approach. But it is one that Christians have practiced since the earliest times. This is what Paul meant that our brother quoted - all things are allowed but not all things are profitable. And the Desert Fathers have much rich teaching on all of this from early on. We have benefited from such instruction for nearly 2000 years, and it can be trusted.

I'm not blaming Protestants. They are just taught to come at the question from the opposite angle, and they do indeed use the Scriptures to find their answers. But so many different interpretations, and lack of the context of the Fathers, and the nature of Protestantism itself (being an effort to find their own way contra Catholicism) means their answers will vary from ours in some degree.

But God loves us all, and desires the salvation of all men. So I know He helps all - Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant - from wherever they start and however they cooperate with Him. Glory to God that He is good and loves mankind!



I hope I haven't offended in any way in this reply, through my own clumsiness. God be with you.

 

[Sabertooth]

Protestants are also very likely to look at everything as individualistic - how I decide, what this means to me, what I can tolerate.

Beyond Protestantism, Third-wavers will lean more on our consciences when God's instructions are not spelled out. And we expect the Holy Spirit to constantly refine our consciences as we abide in Him. And for others in our congregation, it is more important that they learn to listen to their consciences/the Holy Spirit in extra-Scriptural matters, as well, rather than to what [I may] have discovered along the way. (I can still offer what I have found to interested parties.)

I have found some ideals [like being Quiverfull] to be rewarding, even if they are not mandatory. But to impose those ideals on others would be legalistic.

 

[Neogaia777]

Protestants love God too, and the Holy Spirit desires to help them also. So I would expect a great degree of convergence in how He leads us.

Also, I know it might sound like it (again, please remember our approach is just very different) but it is also very important to us that we are NOT judging anyone. That is NOT our place. The replies given here are only because our brother asked for advice. Ultimately what he or anyone else decides or does is between themselves and God, with help from their priest or elder or spiritual father - what have you - to the degree they accept their help.

What is not really typical for Orthodoxy is to say "all of xyz is bad" (unless it really is, but anything artistic doesn't fit that as you commented). It's also not really typical for us to try to find our own threshold so that we can walk as close to the edge as possible, as I noted earlier. (By the way, I'm NOT saying that all Protestants do this, but some do - they consider the allowable-ness of a thing or whether it's really sin, so that naturally leads to these kinds of conclusions.) Protestants are also very likely to look at everything as individualistic - how I decide, what this means to me, what I can tolerate.

Frankly, relying on oneself - while you CAN get good answers - you can also get bad ones. If a person is immature, or attached to sin, or under delusion, how can they trust that their heart is convincing them that they can play safely with something that might damage others? There's potentially a little pride revealed in that opinion right there that needs to be examined. We are taught to look for such pitfalls and try to avoid them.

It's just a different approach. But it is one that Christians have practiced since the earliest times. This is what Paul meant that our brother quoted - all things are allowed but not all things are profitable. And the Desert Fathers have much rich teaching on all of this from early on. We have benefited from such instruction for nearly 2000 years, and it can be trusted.

I'm not blaming Protestants. They are just taught to come at the question from the opposite angle, and they do indeed use the Scriptures to find their answers. But so many different interpretations, and lack of the context of the Fathers, and the nature of Protestantism itself (being an effort to find their own way contra Catholicism) means their answers will vary from ours in some degree.

But God loves us all, and desires the salvation of all men. So I know He helps all - Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant - from wherever they start and however they cooperate with Him. Glory to God that He is good and loves mankind!



I hope I haven't offended in any way in this reply, through my own clumsiness. God be with you.

No not at all offended, thanks...

I might put more study into Eastern Orthodox sometime...

I gotta really call it a night for now though, I didn't expect to be on here this long as it is, night,

God Bless!

 

[~Anastasia~]

No not at all offended, thanks...

I might put more study into Eastern Orthodox sometime...

I gotta really call it a night for now though, I didn't expect to be on here this long as it is, night,

God Bless!

I'm just glad if what I said made sense, being so meta and general in places lol.

Goodnight and God bless!

 

[~Anastasia~]

No not at all offended, thanks...

I might put more study into Eastern Orthodox sometime...

I gotta really call it a night for now though, I didn't expect to be on here this long as it is, night,

God Bless!

I'm also glad I didn't offend. And if you ever have questions about Orthodoxy, feel free to ask TAW. We have some great members here.

 

[Jackson Cooper]

I think media and art are a different thing to consume than skilled trades. It's an unfair comparison.

Are you concerned with the books you read, the movies you watch, the art on your walls? The music you listen to falls into the same category, though some people are affected more by what they see, others by what they hear, etc.

Who fixes your sink or cuts your grass isn't going to have the same impact.

I avoid movies that are blasphemous or perverted. I don't see why I couldn't do the same for Heavy Metal. I don't think there will be any baroque music in Heaven, but I like listening to that as well.

 

[Jackson Cooper]

yep, because even the name Black Sabbath says something about the band.

I think the name was inspired by an Italian horror movie which was playing across the street from where the band was. I don't see anything wrong with Black Sabbath, but I would avoid bands like Judas Priest.