IS IT SIN TO BREAK THE 10 COMMANDMENTS? (Yep!)

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

That just proves my point

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You hit the nail on the head when you wrote "walls of text". Says these are done "on the fly". With only 1 minute between enormous posts. The WPM rate must be off the charts.

I have made my share of long posts before from my Google Documents (So as to show the weight of Scripture in supporting a particular belief), but I would not continue to keep posting super long walls of texts over and over and over and over again. The only time my posts can get a little long (sometimes) is if I replied to someone who said a lot and we are deep in conversation about many things. But even then I try to break down my responses into smaller bite sized posts so as to reply to them (So others can read, too). I believe he has taken the long post allowance waaaay beyond the threshold. For people are busy and wading through a long endless sea of super long posts is never effective to tell people about what you believe to be true. I believe an occasional long post is okay, but if everyone of your posts is a wall of text, people are just going to tune you out because it does not seem like you are taking the time to truly listen to them (in what they have to say). It is just using the copying and paste tool with them not really listening. For I had 4 long walls of text posted to me last night after I said that was my last reply on the matter of the Sabbath.

 

[Saint Steven]

That just proves my point

How can you say that? Jesus is differentiating between his commands and the Father's commands. If they were the same, he would have said one or the other, not both separately.

 

[Saint Steven]

I have made my share of long posts before from my Google Documents (So as to show the weight of Scripture in supporting a particular belief), but I would not continue to keep posting super long walls of texts over and over and over and over again. The only time my posts can get a little long (sometimes) is if I replied to someone who said a lot and we are deep in conversation about many things. But even then I try to break down my responses into smaller bite sized posts so as to reply to them (So others can read, too). I believe he has taken the long post allowance waaaay beyond the threshold. For people are busy and wading through a long endless sea of super long posts is never effective to tell people about what you believe to be true. I believe an occasional long post is okay, but if everyone of your posts is a wall of text, people are just going to tune you out because it does not seem like you are taking the time to truly listen to them (in what they have to say). It is just using the copying and paste tool with them not really listening. For I had 4 long walls of text posted to me last night after I said that was my last reply on the matter of the Sabbath.

I agree. I think his aim is to reprogram readers to his POV. That requires a lot of reading and a lot of gullibility. Notice he is trying to get promises from readers that they will keep to his talking points. I refuse. It's a brainwashing tactic. These folks are sheep stealers. We are their prime target. Reader beware.

Jesus came to seek and to save those who were lost.
These folks have come to seek and to enslave the saved.
(and to steal their salvation in the process)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I agree. I think his aim is to reprogram readers to his POV. That requires a lot of reading and a lot of gullibility. Notice he is trying to get promises from readers that they will keep to his talking points. I refuse. It's a brainwashing tactic. These folks are sheep stealers. We are their prime target. Reader beware.

Jesus came to seek and to save those who were lost.
These folks have come to seek and to enslave the saved.
(and to steal their salvation in the process)

Yeah, it makes one think about SDA (and or other churches who say that not keeping the Sabbath is a sin). Ellen G. White had a vision of the 4th commandment being highlighted by a light on the two tablets of stone given to Moses by God. Yet, many of her predictions have not come to pass (and were proven to be false). God's Word says if a prophet's words do not come to pass just one time, we are not to listen to them.

Anyways, I really liked the movie Hacksaw Ridge because I am a New Testament Pacifist (who believes in just war or justice by the hands of governments), but after this thread, it truly makes me realize the serious danger of the SDA church and those like it that promote Sabbath keeping as a part of salvation (When the NT in no way clearly talks about that). It is like those who were trying to promote "Circumicision" for salvation. Paul condemned those who did that. For circumcision is a part of the Mosaic Law, just like the weekly Sabbath is a part of the Mosaic Law (and not the law given to us by Christ).

 

[Copperhead]

I guess we will have to.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

How can you say that? Jesus is differentiating between his commands and the Father's commands. If they were the same, he would have said one or the other, not both separately.

Yeshua says it Himself! "I do the will of my Father." His commands can not be different, otherwise there is a house divided. You need to know and understand what the 2 Covenants are.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We have such a high priest, one who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, a minister in the sanctuary and the true tabernacle that the Lord, not man, set up. For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. So this one too had to have something to offer. Now if he were on earth, he would not be a priest, since there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. The place where they serve is a sketch and shadow of the heavenly sanctuary, just as Moses was warned by God as he was about to complete the tabernacle. For he says, “See that you make everything according to the design shown to you on the mountain.”

But now Jesus has obtained a superior ministry, since the covenant that he mediates is also better and is enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, no one would have looked for a second one. But showing its fault, God says to them, “Look, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will complete a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. “It will not be like the covenant that I made with their fathers, on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not continue in my covenant and I had no regard for them, says the Lord. “For this is the covenant that I will establish with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and I will inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God and they will be my people. “And there will be no need at all for each one to teach his countryman or each one to teach his brother saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ since they will all know me, from the least to the greatest. “For I will be merciful toward their evil deeds, and their sins I will remember no longer.” When he speaks of a new covenant, he makes the first obsolete. Now what is growing obsolete and aging is about to disappear.

I will give them one heart and I will put a new spirit within them; I will remove the hearts of stone from their bodies and I will give them tender hearts, so that they may follow my statutes and observe my regulations and carry them out. Then they will be my people, and I will be their God.

The work of the Holy Spirit is internal, changing our hearts from hearts of stone to hearts of flesh. He creates in us a love for God and a desire to obey His commands. As a result, we can draw near to Him, entering into an intimate relationship free from fear and dread. The New Covenant enables us to become His people, and He becomes our God. This kind of intimacy is something that the Old Covenant could never produce. The New removes the curse, not just a cover for sin.

 

[Saint Steven]

Yeshua says it Himself! "I do the will of my Father." His commands can not be different, otherwise there is a house divided. You need to know and understand what the 2 Covenants are.

A house divided has nothing to do with it. Why would you play that card here? Are you claiming the two covenants are the same now? To prevent "a house divided"? That ridiculous.

Hebrews 8:9
It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

A house divided has nothing to do with it. Why would you play that card here? Are you claiming the two covenants are the same now? To prevent "a house divided"? That ridiculous.

Hebrews 8:9
It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord.

BOTH were with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. It was not like it because we did not keep it. The new has a new mediator (Yeshua). Now the laws are written not on stone but on our hearts!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yeshua says it Himself! "I do the will of my Father." His commands can not be different, otherwise there is a house divided. You need to know and understand what the 2 Covenants are.

I don't want to argue with you endlessly on this, but I have to ask that if you truly believe that the laws are the same between the Old and the New...

What do you think Paul is saying in Galatians 5:2?

For he says,

"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2).

Also see Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24.

It sounds like circumcision is being condemned here. But if it is a part of the faith, then why is Paul saying if they be circumcised... Christ will profit them nothing?

Also, when Christ died upon the cross, the temple veil was torn from top to bottom. This was letting us know that the laws on the priesthood and the animal sacrifices had ended. Meaning the Old Covenant is no more.

"Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second." (Hebrews 10:9).

In other words, this verse above here is saying that Jesus takes away the first covenant (i.e. Old Testament) so that He might establish the second covenant (i.e. the New Testament).

Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.
Romans 7:6 says:

(a) We are delivered from the Law.
(b) We are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

What do you make of all these things? Do you just ignore them or re-write what they say?

I know there are groups like the Ebionites who just deny the words of Paul. IMO ~ It would just be easier to do that in order to hold to a belief that we have to obey both all of the Old and the New. But I am capable of denying God's Word. I know it is divine in origin.

 

[Saint Steven]

BOTH were with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. It was not like it because we did not keep it. The new has a new mediator (Yeshua). Now the laws are written not on stone but on our hearts!

A new covenant is a new agreement. You can't change where something is written and then declare it is a new covenant agreement? The agreement has to change for it to be a change of covenant.

 

[Saint Steven]

Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We have such a high priest, one who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, a minister in the sanctuary and the true tabernacle that the Lord, not man, set up. For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. So this one too had to have something to offer. Now if he were on earth, he would not be a priest, since there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. The place where they serve is a sketch and shadow of the heavenly sanctuary, just as Moses was warned by God as he was about to complete the tabernacle. For he says, “See that you make everything according to the design shown to you on the mountain.”

But now Jesus has obtained a superior ministry, since the covenant that he mediates is also better and is enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, no one would have looked for a second one. But showing its fault, God says to them, “Look, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will complete a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. “It will not be like the covenant that I made with their fathers, on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not continue in my covenant and I had no regard for them, says the Lord. “For this is the covenant that I will establish with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and I will inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God and they will be my people. “And there will be no need at all for each one to teach his countryman or each one to teach his brother saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ since they will all know me, from the least to the greatest. “For I will be merciful toward their evil deeds, and their sins I will remember no longer.” When he speaks of a new covenant, he makes the first obsolete. Now what is growing obsolete and aging is about to disappear.

I will give them one heart and I will put a new spirit within them; I will remove the hearts of stone from their bodies and I will give them tender hearts, so that they may follow my statutes and observe my regulations and carry them out. Then they will be my people, and I will be their God.

The work of the Holy Spirit is internal, changing our hearts from hearts of stone to hearts of flesh. He creates in us a love for God and a desire to obey His commands. As a result, we can draw near to Him, entering into an intimate relationship free from fear and dread. The New Covenant enables us to become His people, and He becomes our God. This kind of intimacy is something that the Old Covenant could never produce. The New removes the curse, not just a cover for sin.

Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We have such a high priest, one who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, a minister in the sanctuary and the true tabernacle that the Lord, not man, set up. For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. So this one too had to have something to offer. Now if he were on earth, he would not be a priest, since there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. The place where they serve is a sketch and shadow of the heavenly sanctuary, just as Moses was warned by God as he was about to complete the tabernacle. For he says, “See that you make everything according to the design shown to you on the mountain.”
But now Jesus has obtained a superior ministry, since the covenant that he mediates is also better and is enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, no one would have looked for a second one. But showing its fault, God says to them, “Look, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will complete a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. “It will not be like the covenant that I made with their fathers, on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not continue in my covenant and I had no regard for them, says the Lord. “For this is the covenant that I will establish with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and I will inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God and they will be my people. “And there will be no need at all for each one to teach his countryman or each one to teach his brother saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ since they will all know me, from the least to the greatest. “For I will be merciful toward their evil deeds, and their sins I will remember no longer.” When he speaks of a new covenant, he makes the first obsolete. Now what is growing obsolete and aging is about to disappear.
I will give them one heart and I will put a new spirit within them; I will remove the hearts of stone from their bodies and I will give them tender hearts, so that they may follow my statutes and observe my regulations and carry them out. Then they will be my people, and I will be their God.
The work of the Holy Spirit is internal, changing our hearts from hearts of stone to hearts of flesh. He creates in us a love for God and a desire to obey His commands. As a result, we can draw near to Him, entering into an intimate relationship free from fear and dread. The New Covenant enables us to become His people, and He becomes our God. This kind of intimacy is something that the Old Covenant could never produce. The New removes the curse, not just a cover for sin.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You are not in agreement with God's WORD. The Apostle Paul indicates that they are different. Even Christ makes the distinction. Scripture below.

1 Corinthians 9:21
To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

Of couse I am in agreement with God's WORD. None of the scriptures you have provided say that Jesus has a different set of laws to those of the father now do they? How could Jesus be one with the Father if they had different laws to each other? (John 10:30). Sorry Steve your teaching here does not make any sense and does not agree with Jesus.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

1) I wasn't talking to you.
2) I asked for the scripture from the law that said doing good on the Sabbath is lawful.

Apparently there is no such thing. Which proves my point.

You question was anaswer with God's WORD. You asked for the scripture that says doing GOOD in the sabbath is lawful. It was provided to you in MATTHEW 12:12. I guess you did not like the answer.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The will of the Father is that grace REPLACES the law. That's what that verse is about. Look at the previous verse in context. Hebrews confirms this.

John 1:16-17
Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 8:7, 13
For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

I think many people do not know what grace it for. Teaching that grace abolishes God's LAW and that no one is held accountable for breaking it (SIN) is taught no where in God's WORD.

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For if we SIN willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

1 JOHN 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, You shall not covet.

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

ROMANS 1:5, By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name.

ROMANS 6:1-2, [1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. [2], How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

.............

DOES FAITH ABOLISH GOD'S LAW?

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then ABOLISH THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

Sorry Steve it is not the will of the father that grace replaces God's LAW. GRACE is ESTABLSIHED by OBEDIENCE to God's LAW by faith that works by LOVE and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who BELIEVE God's WORD.

Hope this helps.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Everything that God requires?
Are you saying that Christ's atonement is somehow not sufficient to salvation? That there are "requirements" beyond that? Why would there be "requirements"? Requirements for what? To what end? Salvation? Works to be saved? Or works to stay saved? Is that what you are saying?

Romans 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Now your just making things up that no one has said to you. Are you playing in straw Steve?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

On this page there are only 1 to 3 minutes between HUGE posts from the OP at the top of the page. See posts #561 - #564. Are we to believe that these are composed "on the fly" and not copy/paste from a database? The evidence says otherwise.

Actually those posts took a great deal of time to write. I did them in MS WORD, when they were ready they were posted in CF. I am not that quick

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Please stop replying to me in regards to the Sabbath.
It's done.
Over.
No more.
It's dead and buried.
It's water under the bridge.
It's put out to pasture.

I made my last appeal.
I am finished.
No more words by you in regards to the weekly Sabbath will be accepted or received at this time.
All walls of text to me will continue to be ignored.
In fact, I have no idea what you said to me except that my guess is that it has to do with the heretical belief that the keeping of the weekly Sabbath is a required part of our salvation.

But please. Let it go; And please stop replying to me on this matter.
Please. Just stop. Don't do it. I know you may want to copy and paste yet another endless continuation of super insanely long posts that I will never read.... but I ask you in kindness to stop.
I know the urge is hard to resist. You want to use your keyboard. But please. I beg you. Stop. Just stop. Don't do it.
Pretty please. With sugar on top.... for the stop.

Thank you;
And may God's love shine upon you.


Side Note:

You quoted me with 3 super long posts last night to my final reply to you on the Sabbath and I said that was it. I said to you it was one last appeal. This means I did not want any more posts to you on the topic if you disagreed. So you don't listen to well. If you don't listen to well to me, what makes me trust that you are listening to God in what His Word says? In fact, this morning, I seen another super insanely long post to me. Wow. Insane. You know I do not want to argue this with you as per violation of Titus 3:9, but you really don't care if I violate God's Word from my perspective. Again, this like eating bacon in front of a person who told you they are highly offended by the consumption of pork.

It is ok brother Jason, you are free to do as you wish. There is no pressure on you to reply to the posts sent you if you are not able to. There is no need to continue the discussion if you do not wish to.

May God help you as you seek him through his WORD

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You hit the nail on the head when you wrote "walls of text". Says these are done "on the fly". With only 1 minute between enormous posts. The WPM rate must be off the charts.

Now Steve your listen to what is told you. My posting we done in WORD. Once complete they were posted on site. It is not hard to understand.