IS IT SIN TO BREAK THE 10 COMMANDMENTS? (Yep!)

[LoveGodsWord]

Dear Jason, I thank you for your kindness in your post. Some comments for your consideration below.

Dear Love Gods Word:
Grace, peace, and love to you from the Lord Jesus Christ. I will offer one last appeal to reason with you with God's Word. If you don't get it after my post here, I am not going to endlessly argue with you back and forth (out of respect to my desire to obey the command in Titus 3:9).

Thankyou Jason, grace peace and love to you also. The only reason brother that I spend so much time in God's WORD and also in responding to posts in the forum is because I love God's WORD and love sharing it with others who may need God's help. I share God's WORD not to argue with you but that God's WORD may lead you to him who loves you and has washed us in his own blood to call you his Son.

In all respect, as shown through the scriptures earlier. We have gone through each one of your posts in detail showing that all the scriptures you have provided have been taken out of context. This has been shown in

*Post # 199 linked click me
*Post # 200 linked click me
*Post # 219 linked click me
*Post # 486 linked click me
*Post # 487 linked click me
*Post # 511 linked click me

Not to mention your interpretation of Titus 3:9 which is not even talking about the 10 Commandments.

TITUS 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

NOTE: In Titus 3:9 the GREEK word for the law used here is νομικός ; nomikos which means ceremonial laws. So the scripture says to avoid foolish questions in relation to tracing generations [Geneologies] and havnig contentions about the ceremonial laws that are unprofitable. (From post # 488 linked click me).

As God's 10 commandments give us a knowledge of what sin is and sin will keep all those who practice it out of God's Kingdom, I think it is profitable to discuss them don't you?

Now Jason all the above posts have gone through all your posts and scriptures provided section by section and scripture by scripture and have shown that the scriptures you have provided for your interpretation have been taken out of context. In return you have not been able to respond to the scriopture content of any of these posts that disagree with you. This should be a concern for you in the very least.

I believe if someone is in error then we have a duty of LOVE to help them espcially if their salvation is at stake (Galatians 6:1; 2 Timothy 3:16; Exekiel 3:16-21; 1 Timothy 5:20). This is our duty of LOVE for our fellow man that all may know him who calls them in love to be ready to meet him in peace. You are free to BELIEVE God's WORD or not. I do not judge you. It is God's WORD that will be our judge come judgment day (John 12:47-48).

Why would I think most of God's commands need to be clearly spelled out for us in the New Covenant for us to obey God? Well, because we are under a New Covenant and not the Old Covenant.

This is where your problem is. You think that the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures replace the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures when it is the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures that unlock the meaning of what the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures are talking about. In the days of JESUS and the APOSTLES, their bible was the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures. In most cases in the NEW TESTAMENT they are discussing the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures.

We are indeed in the NEW COVENANT but how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is, if it is the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures that unlock what the NEW COVENANT is? EVERYTHING in the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures come from the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures. It is the OLD TESTAMENT that unlocks the meaning of the NEW. If you throw away your key how will you unlock the door (John 10:9)?

The commands are different between the two covenants. Paul even said that if a believer seeks to be circumcised, Christ shall profit them nothing (Galatians 5:2). This lets us know that the Old is no longer the covenant we look to (primarily) to obey God.

This is a good example of what was explained in the previous section. CIRCUMCISION is a shadow law from the Mosaic book of the covenant. Not the 10 Commandments. The role of CIRCUMCISION was a shadow law from the OLD COVENANT that pointed to a NEW HEART under the NEW COVENANT. This however is nothing new in the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures as it was already foretold in the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures. Take a look at the scripture from the OLD TESTAMENT pointing to the NEW.

DEUTERONOMY 30 [6] And the LORD your God will CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEART AND THE HEART OF YOUR DECENDENCE, TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND WITHYOU’RE YOUR SOUL, THAT YOU MAY LIVE.

JEREMIAH 4 [4] CIRCUMCISE YOURSELF TO THE LORD, AND TAKE AWAY THE FORESKINS OF YOUR HEART, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

DEUTERONOMY 10 [16] CIRCUMCISE therefore THE FORESKIN OF YOUR HEART, and be no more stiff-necked.

NEW COVENANT FULFILLMENT of the SHADOWS of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing the CIRCUMCISION of the HEART through faith in Christ…

ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.
1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

This is the operation of GOD in the NEW COVENANT…

HEBREWS 8 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Jesus taught another about how a person needs to first reconcile with their brother before they offer an animal sacrifice unto God (Matthew 5:24), it does not mean we still offer animal sacrifices in the New Covenant. For the laws on animal sacrifices and the priesthood ended when the temple veil was torn from top to bottom at Christ's death.

Jesus taught all the law and the prophets and expounded on them from the OLD TESTAMENT in the NEW TESTAMENT he did not come to abolish then but to fulfill them (Matthew 5:17-19). The MOSAIC BOOK of the law pointed to him and were fulfilled in him (no more animal sacrifices at his death). While he obeyed God's LAW (10 Commandments) perfectly in order to be our perfect sacrifice for sin. Jesus taught LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW and on these two great commandments of LOVE hang all the law and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40. However, even here Jesus is quoting the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures of Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 of LOVE to GOD and LOVE to our neighbore.

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CONCLUSION: If you do not understand the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures how can you understand what the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures mean when everything written in the NEW TESTAMENT comes from the OLD TESTAMENT? If you do not understand what the OLD COVENANT is how can you understand what the NEW COVENANT is? The OLD TESTAMENT scriptures in God's Spirit are the key that unlock the meaning of the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures. If you have lost your key, how can you open the door that is locked *JOHN 10:9?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Jesus nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us (Including he Sabbath).

14 "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."
(Colossians 2:14-17).

Now Jason, your claim here is that COL 2 is saying that God's 4th commandment is an ORDINANCE or ceremonial law. But you have not proven that God's 4th commandment is an ORDINANCE have you brother? In your interpretation of the scriptures here you have also disregarded chapter CONTEXT. One thing you do correctly however is that you are correct in saying it is the ORDINANCES that are abolsihed and not God's 10 Commandments. Yet this is a contradiction in itself because because there are 10 Commandments not 9 commandments according to God's WORD (Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13; Deuteronomy 10:4)

Let's look at the passage in some detail through the scriptures linking NEW AND OLD TESTAMENT scriptures to see what Paul is talking about knowing that the bible in PAULS day was the OLD TESTAMENT. It is the OLD TESTAMENT that is the KEY through God's Spirit that unlocks the meaning of the NEW TESTAMENT...

COL 2:11-17 CHAPTER CONTEXT

11, In whom also you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12, Buried with him in baptism, in which also you are risen with him through the faith of the working of God, who has raised him from the dead.
13, And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he made alive together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14, Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15, And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16, Let no man therefore judge you in food, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17, Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

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CHAPTER CONTEXT OF COL 2:14 AND SUBJECT MATTER (COL 2:11-17)

V11. Shadows of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing to CIRCUMCISION of the HEART MADE WITHOUT HANDS by the CIRCUMCISION of Christ.

Foretold in the OLD TESTAMENT….

DEUTERONOMY 10 [16] Circumcise therefore THE FORESKIN OF YOUR HEART, and be no more stiff-necked.

DEUTERONOMY 30 [6] And the LORD your God will CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEART AND THE HEART OF YOUR DECENDENCE, TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND WITHYOU’RE YOUR SOUL, THAT YOU MAY LIVE.

JEREMIAH 4 [4] CIRCUMCISE YOURSELF TO THE LORD, AND TAKE AWAY THE FORESKINS OF YOUR HEART, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

NEW COVENANT FULFILLMENT of the SHADOWS of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing the CIRCUMCISION of the HEART through faith in Christ…

ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

This is the operation of GOD in the NEW COVENANT…

HEBREWS 8 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

CONCLUSION; The CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION is a Shadow law from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT pointing to a NEW HEART to LOVE and OBEY GOD in the NEW COVENANT

The SHADOW laws of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION from the Mosaic BOOK of the Covenant are the within CHAPTER CONTEXT BEFORE COL 2:14

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COL 2:14 SCRIPTURE SUBJECT MATTER AND CONTENT.

14, Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

GREEK WORD MEANINGS AND WORD USE

14, “BLOTTING OUT” < G1813 ἐξαλείφωexaleipho (ex-a-lei'-fō) v. means to rub out, i.e. obliterate, erase>the “HANDWRITING” < G5498 χειρόγραφονcheirographon (chei-ro'-gra-fon) n. means something hand-written (“chirograph”), a manuscript specially, a legal document > of “ORDINANCES” < G1378 δόγμαdogma (d̮og'-ma) n. means; ORDINANCE; CIVIL, CEREMONIAL or ECCLESIASTICAL laws>that was against us, WHICH WERE AGAINST , and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The GREEK WORD meanings here in this scripture show that it follows the same CONTEXT of v11-13 in relation to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.

V14 Blotting out or erasing the legal MANUSCRIPT or document of ORDINANCES referred to here are those of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.
The GREEK word for ORDIANACE is DOGMA meaning THE CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL ORDINANCES once again only found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant

This scripture cannot be referring to the abolishing of the 10 commandments of God’s LAW as God’s 10 Commandments are not ORDINANCES and they are not written in a MANUSCRIPT they are written on two tables of stone (Exodus 31:18). Also the chapter CONTEXT is in reference to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION once again from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT. These were all SHADOWS ALONG WITH THE ORDINANCES OF v17 pointing to Christ and the plan of SALVATION.

ORDINANCES that were against us is referring to the also referring to the PENALTY of SIN (breaking God’s Commandments and the ORDINANCES of curses written once again in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant.

DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26] Take this Book of the Law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

DEUTERONOMY 30:19 [19] For GOD has said, I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, BLESSINGS AND CURSES: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: [20] That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest OBEY his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD swore unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

(See the list of ORDINACES for curses of breaking Gods’ Law in DEUTERONOMY 28:15-68)

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CONCLUSION; COL 2:14 is talking about the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the MOSIAC BOOK of the Covenant which are SHADOW laws pointing to Jesus and God’s plan of SALVATION. This is supported also by the within CHAPTER CONTEXT and SUBJECT matter of v16 which are all CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the MOCAIC BOOK of the COVENANT and not referring to ABOLISHING God’s 10 Commandments.

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WHAT IS PAUL TALKING ABOUT IN COL 2:16-17? (linking the OLD to the NEW)

Col 2:16-17, Let no man therefore judge you in (1) meat, or in drink, or in respect of an (2) feastival, or of the (3) new moon, or of the (4) sabbath day{s} plural: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

What is Paul referring to from the OLD TESTAMENT?

EZEKIEL 45:17-21, It shall be the prince’s duty to furnish the (1) burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the (2) feasts, the (3) new moons, and the (4) Sabbath{s}, at all the appointed (2) feasts of the house of Israel: he shall provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings, to make atonement on behalf of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel. Thus says the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary: And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court. And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erred, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house. In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the Passover, a Feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.

1 CHRONICLES 23:31 and whenever (1) burnt offerings were presented to the LORD on the (4) Sabbaths, at the (3) New Moon (2) feasts and at the appointed festivals. They were to serve before the LORD regularly in the proper number and in the way prescribed for them.

2 CHRONICLES 2:4 [4] Now I am about to build a temple for the Name of the LORD my God and to dedicate it to him for burning fragrant incense before him, for setting out the consecrated bread regularly, and for making (1) burnt offerings every morning and evening and on the (4) Sabbaths, at the (3) New Moons and at the appointed (2) festivals of the LORD our God. This is a lasting ordinance for Israel.

HOSEA 2:11 [11], I will stop all her celebrations: her (2) yearly festivals, her (3) New Moons, her (4) Sabbaths and all her (2) appointed festivals.

It is interesting to note in the Old Testament the word Sabbath (shabbath 7676 from shabath 7673 meaning “rest”) is not only used for the weekly Sabbath but is also applied to the first and last days of the annual Jewish Festivals. The Greek Word used in Col 2:16 is Sabbaton simply means to cease from secular work; rest.

The monthly New Moon Sabbaths in relation to these festivals as well as the Holy convocations (Sabbaton to cease from work and rest) could fall on any day of the week depending on the year the festival was starting. The Holy convocations were to start the beginning of the annual Jewish feasts. They were to be rest (Sabbath) days (not to be confused with God’s commandment) and restricted or no work was to be done. (Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29)

A High Sabbath day however was when a Holy convocation [annual feast day] falls on the same day as God’s weekly Sabbath commandment (Ex 20:8-11). This is an extension of the term "high day" found in the King James Version at John 19:31-42. The seven festivals do not necessarily occur on weekly Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath) and are called by the name miqra ("called assembly") in Hebrew (Lev. 23). Three of them occur in spring: the first and seventh days of Pesach (Passover), and Shavuot (Pentecost) which occurs in summer. Three occur in fall, in the seventh month, and are also called shabbaton: Rosh Hashanah (Trumpets); Yom Kippur, the "Sabbath of Sabbaths" (Atonement); and the first and eighth days of Sukkoth (Tabernacles). Sometimes the word shabbaton is extended to mean all seven festivals. The Gospel of John says of the night immediately following Christ's burial that "that sabbath day was a high day" (19:31-42). That night was Nisan 15, just after the first day of Passover week (Unleavened Bread) and an annual miqra and rest day, in most chronologies. The King James Version may thus be the origin of naming the annual rest days "High Sabbaths" in English (source: wiki).

All of the above have their origin from the ceremonial laws of the book of Moses found in Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29. All these references are in connection to; (1) Food and Drink offerings, (2) Feast days, (3) New Moons and (4) annual feast Sabbath(s)

So in summary, it should be very clear that Col 2:14-17 is referring to the ceremonial laws of Moses along with the annual Jewish feast days that all pointed to the coming of Jesus. When Jesus died on the cross the Jewish feasts along with the burnt offerings, food and drink offerings, festivals and New Moon festival Sabbath(s) which all pointed to Jesus where a shadow of things to come. Many of the feast days (holy convocations) in Lev 23 where no work days in the Greek Col 2:16 were Sabbaton cease from secular work and rest.

continued...

 

[LoveGodsWord]

from previous post...

The old covenant (MOSAIC ordinances for remission of sin) was to pass away..

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.... [9] WHICH WAS A FIGURE for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The first covenant had ORDINANCES which stood ONLY in meat and drink offerings which were a figure. A shadow

EZEKIEL 46:14 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

Meat offering by ordinance. There ya go. Hebrews 9 was ofcourse correct

HEBREWS 10:1 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

HEBREWS 9:1 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

old covenant...blood of goats.....The meat and drink offerings

HEBREWS 10:4 [4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

EPHESIANS 2:15 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

HEBREWS 13:9 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

The first covenant had ORDINANCES which stood ONLY in meat and drink offerings which were a figure. A shadow

EZEKIEL 46:14 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

HEBREWS 10:1 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

Hebrews 10 says it all. The shadow of the law was the offerings (the meat and drink offerings).

NUMBERS 19:2 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

JOHN 6:55 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.

NUMBERS 18:8 [8] And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, BY AN ORDINANCE for ever.[9] This shall be thine of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: EVERY OBLATION of theirs, EVERY MEAT OFFERING of theirs, and EVERY SIN OFFERING of theirs, and every trespass offering of theirs, which they shall render unto me, shall be most holy for thee and for thy sons.The new covenant is all about the blood of Christ. Not changing the law....but fulfilling the law

ZECHARIAH 9:9 [9] Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, THY KING COMETH UNTO THEE: HE IS JUST, AND HAVING SALVATION; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.[10] And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from river even to the ends of the earth.[11] As for thee also, BY THE BLOOD OF THY COVENANT I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no waterVerse 9 definitely prophecies of the coming Jesus. Verse 11, Jesus is called the blood of thy covenant

HEBREWS 12:23 [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,[24] And to Jesus THE MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT, AND TO THE BLOOD of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

New covenant...blood

LUKE 22:19 [19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. [20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, THIS CUP IS THE NEW TESTAMENT IN MY BLOOD, which is shed for you.

Jesus did not come to change or destroy the law. The sabbath is still to be kept. He came to fulfil what was written of Him in the books of the law and to END the Mosaic law for remission of SIN and the penalty of SIN in those who BELIEVE.

NO MORE ORDINANCES WRITTEN IN THE BOOK of the OLD COVENANT Ceremonial/Levitical/Sacrificial laws and animal sacrifices.

MORE SCRIPTURE CLICK ME?

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CONCLUSION: COL 2:16 is not talking about God's 10 Commandments or the 4th Commandment it is talking about CEREMONIAL ORDINACES written in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant for remission of SIN and annual festivals and HOLY DAYS and special SABBATHS of LEV 23 that pointed to Jesus and GOd's plan of salvation.

Jason, can you see your error now in your interpretation of COL 2:16-17?

You mix up your Shadow laws with God's 10 Commandments. Besides God's 4th Commandment which is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH written on stone, there were "SPECIAL" annual ceremonial Sabbath connected to the annual Jewish festivals in the OLD COVENANT written in the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT.

These ceremonial Sabbath were not God's 4th Commandment of the 10 Commandments but were connected to annual festivals and could fall on ANY DAY of the week depending on the yearly cycle (please read LEVITICUS 23;24-39).

These ceremonial "SPECIAL" Sabbath{s} plural were connected to..

* Annual festival of The blowing of trumpet (Leviticus 23:24)
* Annual Day of Atonement (Leviticus 23:32)
* Annual Feast of tabernacles (Leviticus 23:39)

These "SPECIAL" Sabbath{s} could fall on any day and were connected directly to these festivals that were prophetic in nature pointing to Jesus and God's plan of Salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

You have your Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT mixed up with God's ETERNAL LAW that give us a KNOWLEDGE of sin (Romans 3:20).

DETAILED SCRIPTURE SUPPORT COLOSSIANS 2 LINKING THE NEW TESTAMENT TO OLD

Sorry Jason, God's WORD disagrees with you.

Hope this helps

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It's kind of ironic. You think James 2:8-11 is in reference to the Old Law.

That is what the scripture says my friend not me. JAMES 2:8-12 is a reference to God’s LAW of LOVE and the 10 Commandments from the OLD TESTAMENT * DEUTERONOMY 6:5; LEVITICUS 19:18; EXODUS 20. Jesus says on these two commandments of LOVE to God and man HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets hang (Matthew 22:36-40). JAMES 2:8-12 is referencing the second great commandment of LOVE your neighbour (Leviticus 19:18; Matthew 22:36-40) and is quoting as examples the 6th and 7th commandments (James 2:8-11; Exodus 20:13-14) saying if you break any one of God’s 10 Commandments you stand guilty before God of sin (James 2:11). I suggest you use your key to unlock the door to the NEW.

You are using James 2:8-11 to argue your position to keep a ceremonial law that is no longer binding anymore. Eternal Security Proponents or Antinomians agree with you that James 2:8-11 is talking about the Old Law or all Law in general. However, in reality: James 2:8-11 is actually talking about New Covenant Law (and not Old Covenant). We know this based on the context.

Jason you talk about context but you do not provide it. This has been proven in posts showing CONTEXT in nearly every scripture you have posted in; *Post # 199 linked click me; *Post # 200 linked click me; *Post # 219 linked click me; *Post # 486 linked click me; *Post # 487 linked click me; *Post # 511 linked click me; which you refuse to respond to.

You claim that God’s 4th Commandment is a ceremonial law? Yet you have not proven this claim from the scriptures because you confuse God’s LAW (10 Commandments) with the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the covenant.

NONE of the 10 Commandments are ceremonial laws. I suggest you look up the meaning as to what a ceremonial law is. All God’s LAWS (10 Commandments) are MORAL laws of our duty of LOVE to GOD (Commandments 1-4; Exodus 20:3-11) and LOVE to our neighbour (Commandments 5-10; Exodus 20:12-17). God’s 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) is a MORAL law that is a MEMORIAL of creation. How can it be a ceremonial law? It is written as one of the 10 Commandments {Words} on the two tables of stone. It was not written in the shadow laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT (Exodus 34:28; Exodus 24:7).

WEBSTERS DICTIONARY

CEREMONIAL, a. [See Ceremony.]
1. Relating to ceremony, or external rite; ritual; according to the forms of established rites; as ceremonial exactness. It is particularly applied to the forms and rites of the Jewish religion; as the ceremonial law or worship, as distinguished from the moral and judicial law.

2. Formal; observant of old forms; exact; precise in manners.
[In this sense, ceremonious is now used.]

CEREMONIAL, n.
1. Outward form; external rite, or established forms or rites, including all the forms prescribed; a system of rules and ceremonies, enjoined by law or established by custom, whether in religious worship, in social intercourse, or in the courts of princes.

2. The order for rites and forms in the Romish church, or the book containing the rules prescribed to be observed on solemn occasions.

You seem to be confused in relation to God’s 10 Commandments being all MORAL laws as an expression of LOVE to GOD and LOVE to man. You mix up the Shadow laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT with God’s eternal law (10 commandments) that give us a KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS (Romans 3:20; Psalms 19:7-11) that lead us to the cross of Christ that we might be saved by faith (Galatians 3:22-25). Sorry brother Jason God’s WORD disagrees with you.

"So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty." (James 2:12). The law of liberty is not the Old Covenant Law but it is the New Covenant Law.

INDEED! LOVE is the fulfilling of God’s LAW (Romans 13:8-10) Breaking God’s LAW is sin (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and James 2:8-11).

Galatians 4:21-31 talks about how the Old Law is bondage. For we are delivered from the Law (Old Law) to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter (the Old Law) (See Romans 7:6).

GALATIANS 4:23-31 let’s look at the context.

To be "UNDER THE LAW" in this context is to seek to get your own RIGHTEOUSNESS by trying to obey God's LAW when all God's LAW does is reveal sin. Paul is showing through the covenants [Hagar and Sarah are an allegory of the OLD AND NEW COVENANTS v24] that RIGHTOUESNESS is by FAITH and not by the LAW.

The LAW (10 commandments and the Mosaic BOOK) is not where we get RIGHTOUESNESS because as PAUL says elsewhere there is NONE RIGHTEOUS NO NOT ONE (Romans 3:10). The purpose of God's LAW is only to give us a KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS (Romans 3:20; James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172). It is the schoolmaster that leads us to the Cross of Christ that we might be forgiven by FAITH (Galatians 3:22-25).

RIGHTEOUSNESS is by FAITH in the WORD of GOD alone and not from the deeds of the law. If you are trying to be righteous through the LAW then all you will see is your sins and the wages of sin is death because you have not accepted the gift of God's dear son (Romans 6:23).

The scriptures are not saying God's LAW is Abolished Steve it is saying RIGHTEOUSNESS is by FAITH in Christ and not the LAW the works of the LAW. This is the topic of discussion and subject matter of v21-31.

Bondage is to sin (John 8:34). God's LAW just shows it (Romans 3:20). Jesus wants to save us from it (John 8:36).

……………

As to ROMANS 7:6 look at the context you leave out…

ROMANS 7:5-7 [5], For when we were in the flesh [SINFUL HUMAN NATURE], the passions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. [6], But now we are delivered from the law, being dead to that in which we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

NOTE: v5 when we were in the FLESH [sinful human nature] we were condemned to death [the wages of sin is death Romans 6:23] v6 But NOW being delivered from the law; [How are we being delivered from the law?] Being dead to that which has bound us. [What has bound us?] that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
v5 it is sin that has bound us we need to be dead to it to serve in newness of life under the Spirit of LOVE and not of the oldness of the letter. Being dead to that which has bound us [SIN] we have forgiveness and have been delivered from the fruit of sin [DEATH] v5.

[7], What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, you shall not covet.

You have lost your context again brother.

Hope this helps

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I have provided my commentary to the text below by adding words in blue within brackets.

1 "Let us therefore fear [fear God], lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest [the rest through accepting Christ as Savior or by a believer coming back to Jesus through seeking His forgiveness of their sins], any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached [The good news of salvation through Jesus], as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them [Israel, and or the Pharisees], not being mixed with faith in them that heard it [Meaning: It did them no good, because when they heard it, they did not accept it with faith - GNT].

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest [the rest we have in accepting Jesus as our Savior, seeking His forgiveness, and in the guidance of the Spirit], as he [the Lord] said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they [Israel] shall enter into my rest [Salvation through Jesus]: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world [i.e. the works, meaning the works that Christ did on our behalf; Such as: Jesus living a holy life, taking on our sins in the Garden of Gethsemane, His being whipped, beaten, and crucified upon the cross (including the rest He provides by these works) that was finished from the foundation of the world. For Revelation 13:8 says: "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."].

Jason, I do not disagree that HEBREWS 4 is discussing the gospel in fact I have always believed that. However, there is some things you have not picked up on in HEBREWS 4 that have direct application to God’s 4th Commandment SEVETH DAY SABBATH from creation. Let’s look at the scriptures with the agreement that Hebrews 4 is about the GOSPEL rest but is also referring to God’s SABBATH rest…

………………

HEBREWS 3 AND HEBREWS 4 THE GOSPEL AND THE SABBABTH

HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4. These chapters also link very nicely into PSLAMS 95 if you have some time to read it but we will not touch on PSALMS 95 in this post.

For this post let's look at HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4 and within Chapter and Scripture context highlighting what the scriptures are saying...

Hebrews 3
[8], Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
[9], When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
[10], Why I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
[11], So I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter into MY REST.
[12], Take heed, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
[13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
[14], For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end;
[15], While it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
[16], For some, when they had heard, did provoke: however, not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
[17], But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness?
[18], And to whom swore he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
[19], So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

..............

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 3

v8-10 God's people in the wilderness erred and hardened their hearts not knowing God's ways
v11 Because they hardened their hearts not knowing God's way God was angry and did not let them enter HIS REST
v13 Hardness of heart comes from the deceitfulness of SIN (breaking God's LAW)
v19 God's people did not enter into God's REST because of UNBELIEF

..............

WHAT IS HIS REST (God's) IN HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4?

HEBREWS 4
[1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into HIS REST, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into MY REST: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
[4], For he spoke in a certain place of the SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And God did rest the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
5, And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4:1-5

NOTE: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD [the GOSPEL] enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who believe or do not believe God's WORD do not enter into that rest.

[6], Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
[7], Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
[8], For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[9] SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

[10], For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [11], Let us labor therefore to enter that rest, [God’s REST the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH] lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief [rejecting God’s WORD and sin; Hebrews 3].

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4:9

Now notice Hebrews 4, verse 9: “SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

................

INTERLINEAR HEBREWS 4:9

αρα απολειπεται σαββατισμος τω λαω του θεου
So then there remains a Sabbath rest to the people - of God

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Parallel translations of HEBREWS 4:9

New International Version
There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

English Standard Version
So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,

Berean Study Bible
So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Berean Literal Bible
So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

New American Standard Bible
So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, a Sabbath rest remains for God's people.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, a Sabbath rest remains for God's people.

International Standard Version
There remains, therefore, a Sabbath rest for the people of God to keep,

NET Bible
Consequently a Sabbath rest remains for the people of God.

New Heart English Bible
There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

New American Standard 1977
There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

American Standard Version
There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

Darby Bible Translation
There remains then a sabbatism to the people of God.

English Revised Version
There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

Weymouth New Testament
It follows that there still remains a sabbath rest for the people of God.

World English Bible
There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Young's Literal Translation
there doth remain, then, a Sabbatic rest to the people of God,

................

continuing...

[10], For he that is entered into his rest (v9 SABBATH REST), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[11], Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief (Heb 3).

................

CONCLUSION: Yep lots of scripture here showing that if you do not enter into God's Gospel rest you cannot enter his SABBATH REST. v 1-4 is the context of the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH confirmed in v9-11 Hebrews 3-4 is talking about the Gospel and the keeping of God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH by BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD. "There remains therefore a SABBATH rest to the people of God. Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief" v9-11. HEBREWS 4 supports the keeping of the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH by believing and following the Word of God.

...............

WORD MEANING FOR REST (out of interest)

Now let's compare Matthew 11:28-30 with Hebrews 4

MATTHEW 11:28-30 [28], Come to me, all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [29], Take my yoke on you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and you shall find rest to your souls. [30], For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

STRONGS GREEK REST meaning; G373 ἀναπαύω anapauo (a-na-pav'-ō) v. 1. (reflexively) to repose, to rest. 2. (literally or figuratively) to be exempt, to remain. 3. (by implication) to refresh. [from G303 and G3973] KJV: take ease, refresh, (give, take) rest Root(s): G303, G3973

G303 ἀνά ana (a-na') prep. 1. (properly) up. 2. (by extension, used distributively) amidst or severally, etc. 3. (by implication, as a prefix) (it often means) repetition (again), intensity, reversal, etc. 4. apiece. 5. (of combined motion) back. 6. (with G3319) through (the midst).

G3973 παύω pauo (pav'-ō) v. to stop, i.e. restrain, quit, desist, come to an end.
{transitively or intransitively} [a primary verb (“pause”)] KJV: cease, leave, refrain

....................

Now compare this GREEK word used here to the one used in Hebrews 4:9...

HEBREWS 4:9 SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

The Greek Word used here is different.

STRONGS GREEK/HEBERW REST meaning of Hebrews 4:9; G4520 σαββατισμός sabbatismos (sab-ba-tiz-mos') n. 1. a “sabbatism.” 2. (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven). [from a derivative of G4521] σάββατον sabbaton (saɓ'-ɓa-ton) n. 1. the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath). 2. a day of weekly repose from secular avocations. 3. the observance or institution itself. 4. (by extension) a week, i.e. the interval between two Sabbaths. 5. likewise the plural in all the above applications.

[of Hebrew origin (H7676)] שַׁבָּת shabbath (shab-bawth') n-e. 1. intermission, a period of temporary rest. 2. (specifically) the Sabbath, the seventh day being the day of rest.

[intensive from H7673] H7673 שָׁבַת shabath (shaw-ɓath') v. to repose, i.e. to cease from exertion. {used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific)} [a primitive root] KJV: (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep sabbath, suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

....................

As you can see from the different GREEK words used in Matthew 11:28 and Hebrews 4:9 both words are indeed different and have a different application.

Both are similar referring to rest but the word REST in Hebrews 4:9 in is reference "Sabbatismos" which is the "REST" specifically found in God's Sabbath the 4th Commandment that refers right back the Hebrew WORD used for rest in Genesis 2.

Let's look at the origin of the Sabbath and God's 4th Commandment...

GENESIS 2:1-3 [1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2], And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. [3], And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

[intensive from H7673] H7673 שָׁבַת shabath (shaw-ɓath') v. to repose, i.e. to cease from exertion. {used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific)} [a primitive root] KJV: (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep sabbath, suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

The above HEBREW meaning is the base root of Sabbatismos from the GREEK word used in Hebrews 4:9 which is referring right back to the origin of God's Sabbath in Genesis 2 and God's 4th Commandment in Exodus 20:8-11.

The meaning here is the REST that comes specifically from BELIEVING and OBEYING Gods WORD' from God's 4th Commandment Sabbath. This is the SABBATH rest according to the commandment.

......................

Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

So in summary no one enters into GOD'S REST of the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH without first entering into the GOSPEL REST of BELIEVING and FOLLOWING his WORD.

Hope this helps Jason

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As I said to you before, if you do not get what I am trying to say fully, then that was my last post to you in regards to the Mosaic Law at this present time. So you wasted your time posting more walls of text to me, my friend. I am moving on from trying to demolish your belief in going back to the Mosaic Law as a means of justification (Which is clearly condemned as heresy by Paul). I believe your preaching of the Sabbath (in how you think it plays part in our salvation) is another gospel (Which is no gospel at all).

We are under a New Covenant with New Commands, and no such command was ever given to us believers in the pages of the New Testament so as to obey the Sabbath. The Sabbath is also not listed as a grievous sin alongside of murder, lying, stealing, etc. in the New Covenant, either. Surely if the Sabbath was still in effect today (Seeing it is an important command in the Old Covenant), it would have surely been written down as a command in the New Testament at least. But we don't see this. Hebrews 4 in no way is a clear command for the weekly Sabbath. You need something clear like: "Thou shalt works six days and rest on the seventh day and keep the Sabbath" within the New Testament in order for there to be such a command. For if keeping the Sabbath did deal with our salvation in the NT, I am sure God would not want us making any mistakes on misunderstanding this one. This is the problem with your belief here. I don't see anywhere in Hebrews 4 a clear command for the weekly Sabbath; And I highly doubt God would condemn anyone for not understanding your odd view that the command of the weekly Sabbath is in Hebrews 4 (When I do not plainly see it). It just seems like you are stretching the text in Hebrews 4 in order to see a weekly Sabbath command (When there really isn't one).

Good say to you in the Lord;
And lets agree to disagree.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

~ Jason.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi Jason, some comments for your consideration below.

As I said to you before, if you do not get what I am trying to say fully, then that was my last post to you in regards to the Mosaic Law at this present time.

Jason I got what you were saying fine. That is why I went through your post section by section and scripture by scripture and replied to it.

So you wasted your time posting more walls of text to me, my friend.

As I said earlier Jason it is never a waste of time to help a brother in need and also to others who may be following this thread. You are free to BELIEVE God's WORD or not. I do not judge you. We are all only held accountable to God come judgment day. I have fulfilled my duty of LOVE to you according to God's WORD. Your salvation is between you and God.

I am moving on from trying to demolish your belief in going back to the Mosaic Law as a means of justification (Which is clearly condemned as heresy by Paul).

Well that statement just does not have any truth in it. Where have I ever said we have to go back to the Mosaic law as a means of justification. Are you telling the truth here brother Jason?

I believe your preaching of the Sabbath (in how you think it plays part in our salvation) is another gospel (Which is no gospel at all).

Not at all Jason. You mentioned another Gospel? There is another Gospel indeed but it is not what you think it is.

Let's see what God's Word says...

2 CORINTHIANS 11:3-4 [3], But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. [4], For if he that comes preaches another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

WHAT IS THE OTHER GOSPEL?

The false Gospel is one that tries to separate God's Law from Grace and faith (Romans 1:5; 16:261 John 2:3-4; Romans 3:20).

WHY AND WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY?

Because it is only through the Law of God (10 commandments) that any of us have a knowledge of what sin is (Romans 7:7; 1John 3:4; Rom 3:20; 24). If we do away with God's Law we have no knowledge of sin. If we have no knowledge of sin we have no need of a savior. If we have no need of a savior we have no salvation. If we have no salvation we are lost. "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law." (Rom 2:12).

God's Law shows us that we are sinners in need of a savior. God's Law was given to us that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God (Rom 3:19). It shows us that we are sinners and cannot save ourselves from this disease that we have within us so that we can by Faith lay hold of the promises of God's Words so that Jesus can save us from our sins. Jesus did not come to save the righteous (those that think they do not need saving) but sinners (those that know their need of saving) (Matt 9:12-13; Mark 2:17; Luke 5:32) God's Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ. It will be the basis of the judgement where we will all be accountable to God.

The Law of God is the only way of showing us who we truly are, sinners in need of a Saviour and in this condition we can see for the first time Him who loved us and washed us in His own blood and by faith only lay hold of the promises of God’s Word. (2Pet 1:4) It is here as we believe God that he changes us from living a life of breaking God's Law to a life of walking with him. It is through the operation of God through Love because he first loved us that we follow Jesus not for salvation but because of love. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us who walk not after the flesh (carnal sinful mind) but after the spirit and why Jesus says to his followers, "If you love me keep the commandments" (John 14:15).

People cannot see that this is the operation of God in the believer and assume God's people believe they are saved by their works, when in fact Jesus is saving us from our sins to walk in newness of life in fulfillment of His new Covenant promise (Heb 8:10-12)......

Gods Sheep hear His Voice salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's Law (1John 3:4) whosoever is living in known sin has neither seen him nor known him (1John 3:6).

Who should we believe God or Man? The teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God? Jesus says if we follow the teachings and traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)
God's sheep hear his Voice (the Word of God).

We are under a New Covenant with New Commands, and no such command was ever given to us believers in the pages of the New Testament so as to obey the Sabbath.

I guess you did not read any of the posts and scriptures in them above that disagree with you. Ignoring God's WORD does not make it dissappear. God's WORD will be our judge come judgment day (John 12:47-48). See post # 565 linked click me.

HEBREWS 4:9 [9] SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

The Sabbath is also not listed as a grievous sin alongside of murder, lying, stealing, etc. in the New Covenant, either.

SIN is and breaking any of God's 10 Commandments (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:9-11)

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], [26], For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, [27], BUT A FEAFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIREY INDIGNATION, WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES.

JAMES 2:8-11 [8], If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well: [9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. [10], For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

Yep seems everyone that is knowingly continuing to break ANY of God's 10 Commandments all end up in the same fire place. Does that not worry you Jason?

Surely if the Sabbath was still in effect today (Seeing it is an important command in the Old Covenant), it would have surely been written down as a command in the New Testament at least. But we don't see this.

God's 4th commandment as well as all the 10 commandments are all through the NEW COVENANT you have only chosen not to see it and follow man made tratidions handed down by the Roman Catholic Church instead of following God's WORD. Please be warned however brother, Jesus says all those who follow the teachings and traditions of men over the Word of God are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9). Jesus and Paul kept it and taught it even after Christs death as well as all the apostles who are our examples to follow. There is not one scripture in all of God's WORD that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

Hebrews 4 in no way is a clear command for the weekly Sabbath. You need something clear like: "Thou shalt works six days and rest on the seventh day and keep the Sabbath" within the New Testament in order for there to be such a command.

That argument has no merit in it Jason all of the commandments in relation to our duty towards God (First 4 commandments; Exodus 20:3-11) are not written word for word in the NEW TESTAMENT. So in that line of thinking you are saying we are free to use God's name in vain make and worship idols and have other God's. Yet we see Jesus all through the NEW TESTAMENT teaching us how to keep the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-12) and Paul teaching and keeping the Sabbath with both JEWS and GENTILES (Acts 13:14; Acts 13:42-44; Acts 16:13; Acts 17:1-2; Acts 18:4-5).

HEBREWS 4:9 [9] SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

For if keeping the Sabbath did deal with our salvation in the NT, I am sure God would not want us making any mistakes on misunderstanding this one.

Indeed he has given us His WORD. The Word of God says if we break ANY ONE OF God's 10 Commandments we commit sin. All who CONTINUE IN KNOWN UNREPENTANT sin will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven (Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Hebrews 10:26-27; 1 John 2:3-4)

May God help you Jason. I will pray for you brother.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

and posting that Scripture somehow magically proves that they are mutually exclusive? Is Yeshua and His Father in conflict then? Does he not do the will of The Father?

 

[Saint Steven]

Not sure why you think this answers what Yeshua HaDerekh said about God's LAW is not mutually exclusive. Christs law is God's LAW.

You are not in agreement with God's WORD. The Apostle Paul indicates that they are different. Even Christ makes the distinction. Scripture below.

1 Corinthians 9:21
To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

 

[Saint Steven]

Not at all you asked for the scripture that says doing GOOD in the sabbath is lawful. It was provided to you in MATTHEW 12:12.

1) I wasn't talking to you.
2) I asked for the scripture from the law that said doing good on the Sabbath is lawful.

Apparently there is no such thing. Which proves my point.

 

[Saint Steven]

and posting that Scripture somehow magically proves that they are mutually exclusive? Is Yeshua and His Father in conflict then? Does he not do the will of The Father?

The will of the Father is that grace REPLACES the law. That's what that verse is about. Look at the previous verse in context. Hebrews confirms this.

John 1:16-17
Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 8:7, 13
For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

 

[Saint Steven]

Here, read what I said again slowly see if you can see the difference...

"Nope, there is a difference between being an "UNBELIEVER" who does not know God and someone who is a believer growing in grace as a babe in Christ that does not know everything that God requires of them through his WORD".

Did you pick it this time?

Everything that God requires?
Are you saying that Christ's atonement is somehow not sufficient to salvation? That there are "requirements" beyond that? Why would there be "requirements"? Requirements for what? To what end? Salvation? Works to be saved? Or works to stay saved? Is that what you are saying?

Romans 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

 

[Saint Steven]

On this page there are only 1 to 3 minutes between HUGE posts from the OP at the top of the page. See posts #561 - #564. Are we to believe that these are composed "on the fly" and not copy/paste from a database? The evidence says otherwise.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hi Jason, some comments for your consideration below.



Jason I got what you were saying fine. That is why I want through your post section by section and scripture by scripture and replied to it.



As I said earlier Jason it is never a waste of time to help a brother in need and also to others who may be following this thread. You are free to BELIEVE God's WORD or not. I do not judge you. We are all only held accountable to God come judgment day. I have fulfilled my duty of LOVE to you according to God's WORD. Your salvation is between you and God.



Well that statement just does not have any truth in it. Where have I ever said we have to go back to the Mosaic law as a means of justification. Are you telling the truth here brother Jason?



Not at all Jason. You mentioned another Gospel? There is another Gospel indeed but it is not what you think it is.

Let's see what God's Word says...

2 CORINTHIANS 11:3-4 [3], But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. [4], For if he that comes preaches another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

WHAT IS THE OTHER GOSPEL?

The false Gospel is one that tries to separate God's Law from Grace and faith (Romans 1:5; 16:261 John 2:3-4; Romans 3:20).

WHY AND WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY?

Because it is only through the Law of God (10 commandments) that any of us have a knowledge of what sin is (Romans 7:7; 1John 3:4; Rom 3:20; 24). If we do away with God's Law we have no knowledge of sin. If we have no knowledge of sin we have no need of a savior. If we have no need of a savior we have no salvation. If we have no salvation we are lost. "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law." (Rom 2:12).

God's Law shows us that we are sinners in need of a savior. God's Law was given to us that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God (Rom 3:19). It shows us that we are sinners and cannot save ourselves from this disease that we have within us so that we can by Faith lay hold of the promises of God's Words so that Jesus can save us from our sins. Jesus did not come to save the righteous (those that think they do not need saving) but sinners (those that know their need of saving) (Matt 9:12-13; Mark 2:17; Luke 5:32) God's Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ. It will be the basis of the judgement where we will all be accountable to God.

The Law of God is the only way of showing us who we truly are, sinners in need of a Saviour and in this condition we can see for the first time Him who loved us and washed us in His own blood and by faith only lay hold of the promises of God’s Word. (2Pet 1:4) It is here as we believe God that he changes us from living a life of breaking God's Law to a life of walking with him. It is through the operation of God through Love because he first loved us that we follow Jesus not for salvation but because of love. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us who walk not after the flesh (carnal sinful mind) but after the spirit and why Jesus says to his followers, "If you love me keep the commandments" (John 14:15).

People cannot see that this is the operation of God in the believer and assume God's people believe they are saved by their works, when in fact Jesus is saving us from our sins to walk in newness of life in fulfillment of His new Covenant promise (Heb 8:10-12)......

Gods Sheep hear His Voice salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's Law (1John 3:4) whosoever is living in known sin has neither seen him nor known him (1John 3:6).

Who should we believe God or Man? The teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God? Jesus says if we follow the teachings and traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

God's sheep hear his Voice (the Word of God).



I guess you did not read any of the posts and scriptures in them above that disagree with you. Ignoring God's WORD does not make it dissappear. God's WORD will be our judge come judgment day (John 12:47-48). See post # 565 linked click me.

HEBREWS 4:9 [9] SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.



SIN is and breaking any of God's 10 Commandments is sin (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:9-11)

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], [26], For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, [27], BUT A FEAFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIREY INDIGNATION, WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES.

JAMES 2:8-11 [8], If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well: [9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. [10], For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

Yep seems everyone that is knowingly continuing to break ANY of God's 10 Commandments all end up in the same fire place. Does that not worry you Jason?



It is in the NEW COVENANT you have only chosen not to see it and follow man made tratidions handed down by the Roman Catholic Church instead of following God's WORD. Please be warned however brother, Jesus says all those who follow the teachings and traditions of men over the Word of God are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9). Jesus and Paul kept it and taught it even after Christs death as well as all the apostles who are our examples to follow. There is not one scripture in all of God's WORD that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.



That argument has no merit in it Jason all of the commandments in relation to our duty towards God (First 4 commandments; Exodus 20:3-11) are not written word for word in the NEW TESTAMENT. So in that line of thinking you are saying we are free to use God's name in vain make and worship idols and have other God's. Yet we see Jesus all through the NEW TESTAMENT teaching us how to keep the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-12) and Paul teaching and keeping the Sabbath with both JEWS and GENTILES (Acts 13:14; Acts 13:42-44; Acts 16:13; Acts 17:1-2; Acts 18:4-5).

HEBREWS 4:9 [9] SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.



Indeed he has given us His WORD. The Word of God says if we break ANY ONE OF God's 10 Commandments we commit sin. All who CONTINUE IN KNOWN UNREPENTANT sin will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven (Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Hebrews 10:26-27; 1 John 2:3-4)

May God help you Jason. I will pray for you brother.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts

Please stop replying to me in regards to the Sabbath.
It's done.
Over.
No more.
It's dead and buried.
It's water under the bridge.
It's put out to pasture.

I made my last appeal.
I am finished.
No more words by you in regards to the weekly Sabbath will be accepted or received at this time.
All walls of text to me will continue to be ignored.
In fact, I have no idea what you said to me except that my guess is that it has to do with the heretical belief that the keeping of the weekly Sabbath is a required part of our salvation.

But please. Let it go; And please stop replying to me on this matter.
Please. Just stop. Don't do it. I know you may want to copy and paste yet another endless continuation of super insanely long posts that I will never read.... but I ask you in kindness to stop.
I know the urge is hard to resist. You want to use your keyboard. But please. I beg you. Stop. Just stop. Don't do it.
Pretty please. With sugar on top.... for the stop.

Thank you;
And may God's love shine upon you.


Side Note:

You quoted me with 3 super long posts last night to my final reply to you on the Sabbath and I said that was it. I said to you it was one last appeal. This means I did not want any more posts to you on the topic if you disagreed. So you don't listen to well. If you don't listen to well to me, what makes me trust that you are listening to God in what His Word says? In fact, this morning, I seen another super insanely long post to me. Wow. Insane. You know I do not want to argue this with you as per violation of Titus 3:9, but you really don't care if I violate God's Word from my perspective. Again, this is like eating bacon in front of a person who told you they are highly offended by the consumption of pork.

 

[Copperhead]

On this page there are only 1 to 3 minutes between HUGE posts from the OP at the top of the page. See posts #561 - #564. Are we to believe that these are composed "on the fly" and not copy/paste from a database? The evidence says otherwise.

i agree. Why some folks feel the need to write a college dissertation as a response post sometime baffles me. That is why I tried to keep it simple on the last page, but it probably got lost in the clutter.

 

[Copperhead]

All walls of text to me will continue to be ignored.

Can't say I blame you in that regard. But did you take a look at my much shorter strait forward post on how I think the commandments should be viewed on the last page?

 

[Saint Steven]

Can't say I blame you in that regard. But did you take a look at my much shorter strait forward post on how I think the commandments should be viewed on the last page?

You hit the nail on the head when you wrote "walls of text". Says these are done "on the fly". With only 1 minute between enormous posts. The WPM rate must be off the charts.

 

[Saint Steven]

i agree. Why some folks feel the need to write a college dissertation as a response post sometime baffles me. That is why I tried to keep it simple on the last page, but it probably got lost in the clutter.

I agree with poster Dave L, who says something to the effect that, if it takes that many words to answer, there is most likely something majorly wrong with the answer.

 

[Copperhead]

We had a saying in the military back in the day.... "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS". Makes me wonder these lengthy posters hold a verbal conversation with others.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Can't say I blame you in that regard. But did you take a look at my much shorter strait forward post on how I think the commandments should be viewed on the last page?

I am finally moving on in regards to discussing the topic of the OT Sabbath actually so as to obey the NT command in Titus 3:9. For I believe it basically says we are not endlessly debate over the Mosaic Law. For I believe that doing so will only bring about strife (just as the verse says).

May God's love shine upon you;
And lets agree to disagree.