Is it selfish

[Sign Of The Fish Burger]

girls...

can't we all just get along?

Why can't we be friends, why can't we be friends? why can't we be friend, oh why can't weeeee bee frieeeeeeeeends!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[tiredwalker]

tiredwalker, you could do a number of things when your kids are school age though --- go back to school, join a non-profit organization and volunteer, be involved as much as possible in your child's classroom included PTA related activities, et cetera. Once your kids are school aged and you are working, it is much harder to be a direct influence in the classroom and in so doing getting to know the teacher on a more personal level. Also, you can be there for your child when he or she gets off the bus with a hot meal already prepared for him or her.

Just wanted to point out that when they are in school, there are other things to do besides working to keep you occupied.

This is true, however, money is an issue for us. We had to save up a ridiculous amount of money for me to stay home for a few years. I have a good degree and that's part of the money trouble. DH and I have significant student loans from college (almost as much as our rent every month!). Though we are paying as much extra as we can every month, we still will have them once the kids are in school.

I will be in the school system as a teacher, so I'll be very involved with them on that level no matter what. It will probably be more than they like. I do like the idea of a hot meal for them when they get home, but I think a snack and a little play time will do while I make up the meal (or DH does).

I wasn't trying to slam people who don't go back to work, I'm just one of those fidgety people who always has to be doing something. I've been on semi-bed rest since Monday and I already feel like I'm going out of my mind. While most normal people would be grateful for the opportunity to rest, I look around and see all of the things that aren't getting done.

Oh, and as a teacher I get to volunteer (or be volunteered) for tons of great stuff. I was the staff leader for the Japanese culture club...and I'm Swedish, but I learned a ton from the kids.

 

[Laurie919]

That was very mature of you, Leanna. You get a gold star for the day I'm totally being silly.

Laurie, I didn't mean that tiredwalker shouldn't go back. It seems I am either not speaking clearly or you just read what you want. I said that there are other things to do to keep occupied during school hours once a child is school aged. Being a teacher is irrelevant to my point.

I guess when I think about people who do volunteer work I think of people who have millions of dollars and nothing else to do with their time.

I do totally understand volunteering at your childs school. Espeically if you live in a small town. Every where I go believe it or not I get a hey Taylor's mom or hey Ms. Laurie. Then I will meet parents and they are like oh you are Taylor's mom. I never know if that is a good thing or not, ha ha. I guess since she gets A's in conduct she can't be too bad.

I also guess I can't help but think every household can use a little extra money, so when you don't have to pay for daycare because they are in school you could use that time to bring in the extra. I have to remember not everyone struggles.

Oh if you do have to work, how awesome would it be to work in there school so you are off when they are off.

 

[heart of peace]

This all reminds me of when I pick up Pinkguard from school and she tells me about all the 4-yr old drama that she endures with the other girls in her school.

"I don't like your boots!"
"You can't come to my birthday party! You don't have enough money!"
"Why does your hair look like that?"
"You can't play with us. Jessica said so!"

Draaamaaaaa

Instead it is on the level of defamation of character, redguard. I don't really see this situation as funny.

Forgive me

 

[Laurie919]

This all reminds me of when I pick up Pinkguard from school and she tells me about all the 4-yr old drama that she endures with the other girls in her school.

"I don't like your boots!"
"You can't come to my birthday party! You don't have enough money!"
"Why does your hair look like that?"
"You can't play with us. Jessica said so!"

Draaamaaaaa

It gets worse, wait until they become tweens. Then it is so and so stole my BF. What BF you can't date?

 

[Laurie919]

Instead it is on the level of defamation of character, redguard. I don't really see this situation as funny.

Forgive me

I promise it is stopping from myside. I never meant to let it get this far and it isn't funny.

 

[Leanna]

This is true, however, money is an issue for us. We had to save up a ridiculous amount of money for me to stay home for a few years. I have a good degree and that's part of the money trouble. DH and I have significant student loans from college (almost as much as our rent every month!). Though we are paying as much extra as we can every month, we still will have them once the kids are in school.

I will be in the school system as a teacher, so I'll be very involved with them on that level no matter what. It will probably be more than they like. I do like the idea of a hot meal for them when they get home, but I think a snack and a little play time will do while I make up the meal (or DH does).

I wasn't trying to slam people who don't go back to work, I'm just one of those fidgety people who always has to be doing something. I've been on semi-bed rest since Monday and I already feel like I'm going out of my mind. While most normal people would be grateful for the opportunity to rest, I look around and see all of the things that aren't getting done.

I can relate with what you are saying because I also had planned to go back to work when my children were in school. There would be nothing wrong with you doing so of course, but sometimes life surprises you too. Like for me it was around D's first birthday that my husband and I were talking about education and we realized that at least the local public school wasn't something we wanted to put our children into, so maybe we would homeschool until we moved. As time went on we grew into the homeschooling idea, and now we're about to have our 3rd child.... so if we were to homeschool all the way through and this was our last child (don't know) I will have been at home for 21years. :o I feel pretty good about the decision to stay home and homeschool... it feels right for our family... and at this moment I don't have plans to go back to work. Time might change that though, maybe when my kids are teenagers I will go back to work. It just depends on what is right. For now we are operating under the assumption that I will never return to work. There are all kinds of things that can be done at home or from home without much resting going on. You just never know!

Money is an issue for us too, but since we do believe God has called me to be home.... money is increasing slowly... and that 30 year student loan that my husband has, we think we can pay it off in a lot less time. We are so excited about that. When I first became a SAHM we cut our income in half, so I know how that is, but slowly things have been working out... and sometimes it just takes that rough time before getting to the good time (then a rough time again, then an easier time...).

 

[heart of peace]

I wasn't trying to slam people who don't go back to work, I'm just one of those fidgety people who always has to be doing something. I've been on semi-bed rest since Monday and I already feel like I'm going out of my mind. While most normal people would be grateful for the opportunity to rest, I look around and see all of the things that aren't getting done.

I never thought you were, tiredwalker. I hope that I didn't imply that you were.


And Laurie, stopping with the hatefulness is one step in the right direction. I continue to pray that you can grow in Mercy.

 

[JulySheMustFly]

How do you decide who is going to be home with the kids and doesn't each parent deserve equal time with the children?

First, I have not read any of the replies. I'll do that in a minute.

To answer the OP.
In our family the person whose income is more stable and has the ablility to provide more income to cover the needs of the family is the one who stays home.

In the past my husband has been a stay at home dad then things changed and I became a work at home mome (seriously part time thought). We've also done it where Bart and I worked opposite shifts.

 

[3girls2dogs]

Well, there isn't much choice in the matter with us. We both have to work if we want to keep the life we have, and we do. I could stay home, but all my kids are in school (actually my oldest turned 18 and moved out ), so there isn't much point in me being home anymore.

When my kids weren't in school, though, I worked nights and weekends, so I guess we both did have equal time with the kiddos.

 

[3girls2dogs]

This all reminds me of when I pick up Pinkguard from school and she tells me about all the 4-yr old drama that she endures with the other girls in her school.

"I don't like your boots!"
"You can't come to my birthday party! You don't have enough money!"
"Why does your hair look like that?"
"You can't play with us. Jessica said so!"

Draaamaaaaa

Isn't having girls a riot. The drama is unreal. Every day there is a new fight and a new crisis and a new crush. Ugh. The funniest part of my day is watching my husband try to deal with it. He hasn't a clue how to come home from dealing with Marines all day and start dealing with little girls.

 

[pmcleanj]

Any comprehensive overview of history will show that working is part of the normal human condition. Work can be a dreary hopeless grind, which is a consequence of the fall and no part of God's plan for us. Or work can be a challenging and rewarding experience that adds value to your day, because we are using God-given talents, a sure sign that we are doing God's will for us.

That same study of history, or of economics for that matter, will show you that the normal human condition is laid out in community, with different people undertaking different tasks so that the whole community's needs are met. And those tasks are rewarded in different ways, wages and salaries being only one kind of reward and not necessarily the best. Money is a good symbol of value received, but it is not value per se. If we start categorizing people's work as unselfish based on whose name is on the deposit slip, or selfish based on whose name is on the withdrawal slip, we're misapplying the symbol. Within the community, someone -- a wife, a husband, a grandparent, a hand-maid, a daycare -- needs to be caring for the children at any given time. And someone needs to plant the fields, and dig the wells, and maintain the Internet infrastructure. And no one person can do all of it, so we rely on one another.

That woman in Proverbs 31 who was trading in flax in the marketplace and spinning it, planting vineyards with the fuit of her hands, managing a household staff, and weaving tapestries of purple -- she was working! And she had help with her children, or what were all those handmaids doing after she gaveth them their portion? Today we have daycare as an alternative to handmaids (and we have live-in grandparents, and Filipino nannies, and day-homes, and other choices too). Daycare may be "meant" for single parent families but that does not imply that those are the only families it is meant for. It's for whoever is being called by God or constrained by necessity to do some work that precludes caring for children for the duration of that work. And no-one -- NO-ONE -- can decide who that is except the person who faces that Call or that Necessity.

But whether you are called to be with your own children 24/7, or whether you are called to care for the children of others and receive a wage for doing it, or whether you are relying on someone you have chosen to provide that care for your own children while you work at something else, is not the determiner of whether your children are well-reared or not. People who use childcare alternatives are still rearing their own children. The caregivers have considerable influence, but it doesn't begin to outweigh the parents' if the parents care to use their influence. And stay-at-home parents every bit as much as wage-earning parents, if they shirk the role of primary influencer, may find in retrospect that their children were reared by the television and their peer-group.

If you commit to do right by your children by whatever you choose, then your choices are not selfish.

 

[tiredwalker]

I can relate with what you are saying because I also had planned to go back to work when my children were in school. There would be nothing wrong with you doing so of course, but sometimes life surprises you too. Like for me it was around D's first birthday that my husband and I were talking about education and we realized that at least the local public school wasn't something we wanted to put our children into, so maybe we would homeschool until we moved. As time went on we grew into the homeschooling idea, and now we're about to have our 3rd child.... so if we were to homeschool all the way through and this was our last child (don't know) I will have been at home for 21years. :o I feel pretty good about the decision to stay home and homeschool... it feels right for our family... and at this moment I don't have plans to go back to work. Time might change that though, maybe when my kids are teenagers I will go back to work. It just depends on what is right. For now we are operating under the assumption that I will never return to work. There are all kinds of things that can be done at home or from home without much resting going on. You just never know!

Money is an issue for us too, but since we do believe God has called me to be home.... money is increasing slowly... and that 30 year student loan that my husband has, we think we can pay it off in a lot less time. We are so excited about that. When I first became a SAHM we cut our income in half, so I know how that is, but slowly things have been working out... and sometimes it just takes that rough time before getting to the good time (then a rough time again, then an easier time...).

We thought about homeschooling when we lived in CA (DH and I taught in a school district with waaaay too many gangs. However, we are in a really good district now (we live really close to Dartmouth College and Dartmouth Hospital and there are tons of doctors' and professors' kids) and I would hate to have them miss the opportunity to go to public schools here. Plus, they could join the sports teams.

I am hoping that DH's income will slowly increase and that I'll figure out how to work from home for a while too. Anything could happen at this point. If my sis gets married and has kids, she'll pay me to watch them when she goes back to work (She's a doctor with the scariest med school loans I've ever seen, so she has to work at least part time). As a youngest child, I'm honestly content to sit back and see what happens (and make something happen when the time is right).

pmcleanj-I saw your post after I posted...excellent!

 

[Redguard]

However, we are in a really good district now (we live really close to Dartmouth College and Dartmouth Hospital and there are tons of doctors' and professors' kids) and I would hate to have them miss the opportunity to go to public schools here. Plus, they could join the sports teams.

The children of doctors and professors are always good company. Unlike those other people.

 

[JulySheMustFly]

I would hate to ask a man for money even if it were family money. I would never feel like I could do anything for Taylor. `

I know some posters have mentioned this but I also do not ask for money. We budget together and we discuss where our money is going to go together. Now, if I was a single parent who remarried I will admit that things would probably be different.

Also, why not help the family finances if you can instead of volunteering? I can see volunteering if you have tons of money and never need extra money, but I don't know a lot of people like that.

I guess when I think about people who do volunteer work I think of people who have millions of dollars and nothing else to do with their time.
. . .
I also guess I can't help but think every household can use a little extra money, so when you don't have to pay for daycare because they are in school you could use that time to bring in the extra. I have to remember not everyone struggles.

I want to come back to those comments because I can't quite figure out how I want to word my response.

 

[Laurie919]

Any comprehensive overview of history will show that working is part of the normal human condition. Work can be a dreary hopeless grind, which is a consequence of the fall and no part of God's plan for us. Or work can be a challenging and rewarding experience that adds value to your day, because we are using God-given talents, a sure sign that we are doing God's will for us.

That same study of history, or of economics for that matter, will show you that the normal human condition is laid out in community, with different people undertaking different tasks so that the whole community's needs are met. And those tasks are rewarded in different ways, wages and salaries being only one kind of reward and not necessarily the best. Money is a good symbol of value received, but it is not value per se. If we start categorizing people's work as unselfish based on whose name is on the deposit slip, or selfish based on whose name is on the withdrawal slip, we're misapplying the symbol. Within the community, someone -- a wife, a husband, a grandparent, a hand-maid, a daycare -- needs to be caring for the children at any given time. And someone needs to plant the fields, and dig the wells, and maintain the Internet infrastructure. And no one person can do all of it, so we rely on one another.

That woman in Proverbs 31 who was trading in flax in the marketplace and spinning it, planting vineyards with the fuit of her hands, managing a household staff, and weaving tapestries of purple -- she was working! And she had help with her children, or what were all those handmaids doing after she gaveth them their portion? Today we have daycare as an alternative to handmaids (and we have live-in grandparents, and Filipino nannies, and day-homes, and other choices too). Daycare may be "meant" for single parent families but that does not imply that those are the only families it is meant for. It's for whoever is being called by God or constrained by necessity to do some work that precludes caring for children for the duration of that work. And no-one -- NO-ONE -- can decide who that is except the person who faces that Call or that Necessity.

But whether you are called to be with your own children 24/7, or whether you are called to care for the children of others and receive a wage for doing it, or whether you are relying on someone you have chosen to provide that care for your own children while you work at something else, is not the determiner of whether your children are well-reared or not. People who use childcare alternatives are still rearing their own children. The caregivers have considerable influence, but it doesn't begin to outweigh the parents' if the parents care to use their influence. And stay-at-home parents every bit as much as wage-earning parents, if they shirk the role of primary influencer, may find in retrospect that their children were reared by the television and their peer-group.

If you commit to do right by your children by whatever you choose, then your choices are not selfish.

Thank you. This was very well written and I am sure will mean a lot to everyone that has to leave their children to be cared for by someone else.

 

[~Nikki~]

It's kind of a ridiculous question to begin with...a person staying at home with their child, whether mom or dad, is far from selfish. In fact, it's pretty selfless if you ask me. As a stay at home parent, my entire day is built around my children. I don't just sit around all day and paint my toenails, eating bon bons while watching Regis and Kelly (that sounds nice though!). How about a lunch hour? I don't get those alone, or even a 15 peaceful break. I can't even sit here and type this message without getting interrupted at least twice. I can't even go to the bathroom in peace... I need to constantly think about the needs of my children at about every moment of my day...how in the world could anyone possibly believe that to be selfish?

Totally agree...and it's a rare treat for me to go to the bathroom by myself too!

Looking after a young 'un all day every day can be mind numbing at times (I'm very glad that dh is home at the weekends)...plus add to that people you meet sneer at you for 'just' being a SAHM, rather than being 'liberated' like them because they're busy being important and having a career. They look at you like you're doing something really offensive (well I've experienced that a few times anyway).

I think it's really selfLESS to give up a career to be the one running around after kids all day, wiping snotty noses and dirty bums, doing all the tasks that no one notices or just plain takes for granted.

 

[heart of peace]

Laurie, while pmcleanj's post was certainly well written and insightful, I have not seen anyone here judge another parent who has to leave their child in the care of another. Do you feel like a bad mother because you weren't able to stay home with your daughter? It sounds to me that you are really struggling to come to terms with your experiences as a parent.

 

[heart of peace]

Totally agree...and it's a rare treat for me to go to the bathroom by myself too!

Looking after a young 'un all day every day can be mind numbing at times (I'm very glad that dh is home at the weekends)...plus add to that people you meet sneer at you for 'just' being a SAHM, rather than being 'liberated' like them because they're busy being important and having a career. They look at you like you're doing something really offensive (well I've experienced that a few times anyway).

I think it's really selfLESS to give up a career to be the one running around after kids all day, wiping snotty noses and dirty bums, doing all the tasks that no one notices or just plain takes for granted.

I definitely understand where you are coming from here. I have encountered many people who think that if you hold post-graduate degrees that you are being selfish because you are not out there utilizing them in the world. So, then, the only way to make use of one's degrees is by working in society but not by raising one's child?

 

[tiredwalker]

The children of doctors and professors are always good company. Unlike those other people.

Okay fine (stinker), let me rephrase that. Ahem, the unusually large population of highly educated people in our area has put pressure on the public school system to provide an exceptional education. Given the drastic difference between the school at which I taught in CA (unusually large population of gangs) and the schools here, my husband and I have chosen to allow our children to attend public school.

That being said, I'm actually not putting my child in the elite, snotty school (which you may have seen in the national news for it's cheating scandel), but the more "normal" school. We don't want to raise elitist brats.

And yes, we are those "other people" too. It's the gang fights I can't deal with. One of my students was beaten with a pipe while I had a sub, and I'm just not okay with that.