Is it really necessary to go to Church?

visionary

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By and large, real community life is missing from most churches in America. This is due in part to the strong emphasis that our American culture puts on the individual: individual rights are carefully guarded; individual self-expression and self-esteem are encouraged; the individual is told to be proud of the things that make him unique. And the ideal American is the “rugged individual” who pulls himself out of the mud by his bootstraps. As a result, American Christianity puts a lot of emphasis on the importance of the individual’s having a personal relationship with God, but very little emphasis on the importance of the individual’s having a personal relationship with the members of the congregation to which he belongs.
 
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Incariol

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Communion may be taken in the home.

Yeah, technically right. The priest can come to your home to commune you. This is hardly ideal however and a priest is unlikely to actually do this if your only reason for wanting this concession is pique.
 
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Celtic D

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Could have fooled Jesus...

53So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54“He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55“For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56“He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57“As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58“This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.”

5Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.



Clearly, God got it wrong! :p

I refer you to Romans chapter 10 verse 9 - the only requirement for salvation!
 
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Incariol

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I refer you to Romans chapter 10 verse 9 - the only requirement for salvation!

My study Bible says: "10:9, 10 This confession and beliefs are more than simply mental acknowledgment that something is true. Rather, this belief refers to placing one's whole trust in the resurrected Christ and living with Jesus as one's Lord. Only the giving of the whole self to Christ is belief unto righteousness."

And that requires the Sacraments. :angel:

I've already posted verses from Jesus in which he says only the baptized and communed will be saved.
 
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Celtic D

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My study Bible says: "10:9, 10 This confession and beliefs are more than simply mental acknowledgment that something is true. Rather, this belief refers to placing one's whole trust in the resurrected Christ and living with Jesus as one's Lord. Only the giving of the whole self to Christ is belief unto righteousness."

And that requires the Sacraments. :angel:

I've already posted verses from Jesus in which he says only the baptized and communed will be saved.

I prefer to go with God's word, not man's interpretation so I'll just stick to what God says in Romans 10:9 which makes no mention of Baptism or any other Sacrament as a requirement for salvation :)
 
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Incariol

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I prefer to go with God's word, not man's interpretation so I'll just stick to what God says in Romans 10:9 which makes no mention of Baptism or any other Sacrament as a requirement for salvation :)

Oh, so you'll go with your own interpretation instead of historic Christianity's, and ignore Jesus when he says that baptism and communion are required. Got it. :thumbsup:

Are you planning on being outraged at me for disagreeing with you much longer? This is rather tedious.
 
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Celtic D

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Oh, so you'll go with your own interpretation instead of historic Christianity's, and ignore Jesus when he says that baptism and communion are required. Got it. :thumbsup:

Are you planning on being outraged at me for disagreeing with you much longer? This is rather tedious.

The only requirement for Salvation is confession of Christ as your Saviour, and I think you will find that all mainstream churches would agree with me on that.

Romans Chapter 10

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”[d] that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”[e] 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”[f]
 
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Aibrean

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Mainstream being what exactly?

Refusing baptism could be considered a lack of faith. Jesus said whoever believes and is baptized will be saved and whoever does not believe will be condemned. You have to realize that faith is a requirement of salvation and part of the working of faith is fellowship with believers, participation in the body and blood of Christ, baptism, etc.

Most mainstream (population wise the RCC and Orthodox are the majority I would think) would agree with me. You don't just "believe" and do nothing. Lukewarm doesn't cut it.
 
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Aibrean

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You won't find the word "Trinity" in the Bible either, but that doesn't mean it's "made-up".

No it's not a "Catholic" thing. Many denominations use the word "sacrament". Most define it as being instituted by God as a means of grace. Lutherans define it as a means of grace applied through a visible element (such as water with the Word in baptism and the bread and wine connected with the real body and blood of Christ in communion).

1 Peter 3:21 said:
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ


John 6:53 said:
So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
 
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You won't find the word "Trinity" in the Bible either, but that doesn't mean it's "made-up".

No it's not a "Catholic" thing. Many denominations use the word "sacrament". Most define it as being instituted by God as a means of grace. Lutherans define it as a means of grace applied through a visible element (such as water with the Word in baptism and the bread and wine connected with the real body and blood of Christ in communion).
Thank you, Aibrean.

I understand sacrament is not only a Catholic thing but a Christian thing since it's not in the Bible. So as original sin, this is a very Christian thing.

John 6:53-You know Jesus meant these words as a parable.
But some people remind me that , by doing communion, it shows that church has some kind of authority of God, which, I think the Bible says, "the authority of God belongs to only God."

"you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood"-this doesn't mean anything unless you know what that Jesus meant and you take it as a symbolic ceremony.
Other words, I know you know what Jesus meant in those words and then why not emphasize what the Bible says. I would rather hear that from you. Of course your Bible excerpts are extremely important for me.

I am sure that it works on most people, however, I have an experience of "refusing baptism from a man" and the man refused me taking communion.

I hope you understand where I come from, that means I am not totally ignorant of what baptism, communion and sacrament are, because I was doing that without denying based on the idea that I just obey whatever they say in the church.
However, baptism was a different animal for me.
I wanted to take time until I receive go sign from the Holy Spirit or some kind of my ego to think like that, honestly I am not sure.

I loved my pastor and still do, but what he did - refused me receiving communion - made me think what is authority of God.

As you know, doing Christian ceremonies is one thing and knowing the behind seen is another thing.
And the Bible emphasize the behind seen-meaning of "parables of Jesus."

That's why we need to read the Book to get know or feel the heart of God, as far as my concern, that's all I need.
The internal world of myself with God could change myself toward the little world of mine and some big Christians could change the big world, but God Himself never change the big world and even the little world.
Of course, the change is to show my love of God to my neighbor.
Am I doing that?
Very, very little, but much, much more than before.

Please excuse my English, if you had a hard time understanding it.

With love of Jesus.
 
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Aibrean

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You are refusing baptism. A Christian has to perform it, that is all, but the working of grace in it comes from God. To reject baptism being done by a man is to reject the authority of Christ that he put on men.

Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

It's not a Christian ceremony. It's a Christian command. I can understand why the pastor refused communion for you. He in concerned about your faith. Baptism seals you with the Holy Spirit. In it you are buried with Christ and raised in a newness of life. Who would not want that?
 
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LilLamb219

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You surely have rejected baptism and all the benefits that it brings...a direct connection to Christ and the cross! The verse Aibrean gave to you is something you should take note of...Jesus told the disciples to go and baptize. You are one of those who are denying Jesus' efforts to have all nations baptized.
 
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LilLamb,
You've got all wrong about me with baptism.
I did not deny baptism.
You must not have read what I wrote previously that I was happy for my wife when she decided to get baptized.
I hope you'd understand, which I wrote many times, I would be baptized when I find a John. Because the Bible says with water and the spirit.
I am careful with my life, with God too.
 
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Aibrean

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John's baptism isn't the same that Jesus commands. Water + the Word (Water + the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). That IS the water and the spirit.

God does the work in baptism. Not people. So you don't need to find a John. Just a Christian because the command to baptize is not given to one Christian, but all.
 
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Aibrean

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>It's not a Christian ceremony. It's a Christian command.

Ancient Hebrews had the same idea you obey to God's command rather than God's heart.
And they had an excuse- They did not know what Jesus came here fore.
What is your excuses?

Ancient Hebrews circumcised their children to seal them in the old covenant, just like baptism seals us. It was a command, not a suggestion.

Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.
If you love God, you will obey his commands. It wasn't an idea the ancient Hebrews followed. It was the word of God.
 
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LilLamb219

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LilLamb,
You've got all wrong about me with baptism.
I did not deny baptism.
You must not have read what I wrote previously that I was happy for my wife when she decided to get baptized.
I hope you'd understand, which I wrote many times, I would be baptized when I find a John. Because the Bible says with water and the spirit.
I am careful with my life, with God too.

You're waiting for John? :doh:

Seriously. You ARE denying Jesus' baptism.
 
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LilLamb,

Again you are dead wrong to say "you are denying Jesus' baptism."
Why do you have to understand others only in that way?
I didn't say that, or did I?

>You're waiting for John.

Don't you know the difference between a John and John, sure you do.
A John is anyone with spirit of God.
When I met him, I love to get baptized.
Hope any one understand this, and I'm not denying baptism.
The Holy Spirit did not guide me there for me to get baptized yet, and I'm looking forward doing that.
This is my matter with God, already I've asked many people in a Christian forum long time ago, and many (with deep knowledge of the Book) said find no words we must ge t baptized in order to get in Heaven.

I am not sure about it yet now these days, that's the reason why I asked here but not in vain.
I hope you'd overlook this comment.
 
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