Is it okay to simply assume that God saves all?

[Ligurian]

Yes, this is absolutely true about the Heavenly Jerusalem:

Rev 21:27 However, nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does abominable or deceitful things, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Rev 22:15 Others must remain outside: the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices deceit.

I think the question that UR advocates ask is whether those outside the City will have a chance to repent and ultimately be accepted inside. This hope is plausible based on Rev 21:25 "Its gates will never be shut..."

That's a failure to quote the whole verse of Revelation 21:25.
...καὶ οἱ πυλῶνες αὐτῆς οὐ μὴ κλεισθῶσιν ἡμέρας· νὺξ γὰρ οὐκ ἔσται ἐκεῖ·...
And it's Revelation 21:25-27... in context.
They won't get even MORE changes to repent, according to Matthew 13:41-42.

Let me ask you... do you think the same things that happen in THIS Jerusalem, should be allowed to happen in New Jerusalem?

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Matthew 13:19-23 When any one heareth the word of the Kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.[20] But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;[21] Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.[22] He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word and the care of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.[23] But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word and understandeth it: which also beareth fruit and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
skandalizo = skandalon; to entrap, i.e. trip up (figuratively, stumble (transitively) or entice to sin, apostasy or displeasure):--(make to) offend.
Matthew 24:9-14 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for My name's sake.[10] And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another and shall hate one another.[11]And many false prophets shall rise and shall deceive many.[12] And because iniquity shall abound the love of many shall wax cold.[13] But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.[14] And This Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them and shall overcome them and kill them.

Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Matthew 13:41-42 The Son of man shall send forth His angels and they shall gather out of His Kingdom all things that offend and them which do ἀνομίαν;[42] and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
(Matthew 7:23 ἀνομίαν, ἀνόμους, without law)

Revelation 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the Earth, and gathered the vine of the Earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Revelation 16:16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

 

[Saint Steven]

Matthew 13:41-42 The Son of man shall send forth His angels and they shall gather out of His Kingdom all things that offend and them which do ἀνομίαν;[42] and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Compare:

Mark 9:49
Everyone will be salted with fire.

Malachi 3:2
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

 

[Ligurian]

Compare:

Mark 9:49
Everyone will be salted with fire.

Malachi 3:2
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

The Sermon on the Mount mixed with... ? I don't use Mark unless it matches the account of one of the Disciples whom Jesus called His witnesses, John 15:26-27.
May seem a tad nitpicky to some, but there ya have it, and that's my plan.

John the baptizer does a good job of describing what Malachi said.

Matthew 3:7-12 [10] And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.[11] I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but He that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.[12] Whose fan is in His hand, and He will throughly purge His floor and gather His wheat into the garner; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
kathairo = katharos; to cleanse, i.e. (specially) to prune; figuratively, to expiate:--purge.
John 15:1-6 I am the true vine, and My Father is the husbandman.[2] Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit He taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, He purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.[3] Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.[4] Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in Me.[5] I am the vine, ye are the branches. He that abideth in Me and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit, for without Me ye can do nothing.[6] If a man abide not in Me he is cast forth as a branch and is withered, and men gather them and cast them into the fire and they are burned.KJV

meno = a primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy):--abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.

Revelation 3:10 {Philadelphia} Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. (Revelation 1:9)
hupomeno = hupo (behind) and meno (abide); to stay under (behind), i.e. remain; figuratively, to undergo, i.e. bear (trials), have fortitude, persevere:--abide, endure, (take) patient(-ly), suffer, tarry behind.
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Revelation 2:10 {Smyrna} Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days. Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

peirazo = peira; to test (objectively), i.e. endeavor, scrutinize, entice, discipline:--assay, examine, go about, prove, tempt(-er), try.

Revelation 3:18 {Laodicea} I counsel thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Laodicea = Thyatira, in the fires of the Great Tribulation (Revelation 2:20-23).

 

[Saint Steven]

John the baptizer does a good job of describing...

Indeed.

John 1:29 NIV
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

 

[Ligurian]

Indeed.

John 1:29 NIV
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Iesus coming unto Him and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world ...VS... John 17:9 I pray not for the world

So... what is the sin of the world? The Earth's "sin" is the curse.
Iesus came to lift the curse on the city, field, fruits, herds and flocks.
But the Earthlings said the Law is finished... and so the curse remains.

Isaiah 24:4-6 The Earth mourns and the world is ruined, the lofty ones of the Earth are mourning.[5] And she has sinned by reason of her inhabitants
because they have transgressed the Law and changed the Ordinances,
even the Everlasting Covenant.
[6] Therefore a curse shall consume the Earth, because the inhabitants thereof have sinned: therefore the dwellers in the earth shall be poor, and few men shall be left.LXX

Deuteronomy 28:15-65 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken to the voice of the Lord thy God to observe all His Commandments, as many as I charge thee this day, then all these curses shall come on thee and overtake thee.[16] Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field.[17] Cursed shall be thy barns and thy stores.[18] Cursed shall be the offspring of thy body, and the fruits of thy land, the herds of thine oxen, and the flocks of thy sheep.[19] Cursed shalt thou be in thy coming in, and cursed shalt thou be in thy going out. ...[64] And the Lord thy God shall scatter thee among all nations from one end of the earth to the other, and thou shalt there serve other gods: wood and stone, which thou hast not known, nor thy fathers.[65] Moreover among those nations He will not give thee quiet, neither by any means shall the sole of thy foot have rest. And the Lord shall give thee there another and a misgiving heart, and failing eyes and a wasting soul.LXX

Psalms 82:1 God stands in the assembly of gods and in the midst of them will judge gods.[2] How long will ye judge unrighteously, and accept the persons of sinners?[3] Judge the orphan and poor, do justice to the low and needy.[4] Rescue the needy, and deliver the poor out of the hand of the sinner.[5] They know not, nor understand, they walk on in darkness. All the foundations of the earth shall be shaken.[6] I have said, Ye are gods, and all of you children of the Most High.[7] But ye die as men, and fall as one of the princes.[8] Arise, O God, judge the Earth: for Thou shalt inherit all nations. (Matthew 28:18)

John 10:34 Iesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?[35] If He called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken,[36] Say ye of Him, whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest, because I said, I am the Son of God?

 

[Fervent]

The whole premise of this thread reveals a wrongheadedness about the manner. When it comes to slavery, for instance, we cannot simply assume it is immoral because our culture now views it as immoral. We are to be conformed to a standard that declares that this world is evil, not conform our standard to the current whims of public sentiment. Slavery is not the great moral evil it is made out to be, it is far more an economic question than a moral one and the divorce in responsibility toward the poor that emancipation has allowed the ruling class is fruit of such evil. Ultimately, the question is what is the most likely literal meaning of the words in God's revelation that should be center to a Christians sense of morality because if there is a discrepency between it and what we believe is moral the error is on our part not God's.

 

[Hmm]

Mark 9:49

Everyone will be salted with fire.

It's interesting that this verse follows one of the supposed 'hell texts', summarising what the text is really about:

42 “If any of you cause one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for you if a great millstone were hung around your neck and you were thrown into the sea. 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life maimed than to have two hands and to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame than to have two feet and to be thrown into hell.47 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and to be thrown into hell, 48 where their worm never dies and the fire is never quenched.

49 “For everyone will be salted with fire.

50 Salt is good, but if salt has lost its saltiness, how can you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another.”
Mark 9:42-50

No wonder Team Hell always leaves it out. It changes the meaning of "hell" in the text from a place of fear and punishment to one of the purification that we all need and will all go through, "For everyone will be salted with fire."

So unless Team Hell are arguing that we are all sent to eternal hell, it's hard to see what they are arguing.

They should note that every mention of hell here is Gehenna, the Valley of Hinnom, and literal translations leave it that way.

 

[Andrewn]

They won't get even MORE changes to repent, according to Matthew 13:41-42.

Matthew 13:41-42 The Son of man shall send forth His angels and they shall gather out of His Kingdom all things that offend and them which do ἀνομίαν;[42] and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

"The kingdom of heaven is not a reward, and gehenna is not a requital: both are gifts of the merciful God 'who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.'"

St. Isaac the Syrian

 

[Ligurian]

That's a failure to quote the whole verse of Revelation 21:25.
...καὶ οἱ πυλῶνες αὐτῆς οὐ μὴ κλεισθῶσιν ἡμέρας· νὺξ γὰρ οὐκ ἔσται ἐκεῖ·...
And it's Revelation 21:25-27... in context.
They won't get even MORE changes to repent, according to Matthew 13:41-42.

Let me ask you... do you think the same things that happen in THIS Jerusalem, should be allowed to happen in New Jerusalem?

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Matthew 13:19-23 When any one heareth the word of the Kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.[20] But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;[21] Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.[22] He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word and the care of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.[23] But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word and understandeth it: which also beareth fruit and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
skandalizo = skandalon; to entrap, i.e. trip up (figuratively, stumble (transitively) or entice to sin, apostasy or displeasure):--(make to) offend.
Matthew 24:9-14 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for My name's sake.[10] And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another and shall hate one another.[11]And many false prophets shall rise and shall deceive many.[12] And because iniquity shall abound the love of many shall wax cold.[13] But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.[14] And This Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them and shall overcome them and kill them.

Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Matthew 13:41-42 The Son of man shall send forth His angels and they shall gather out of His Kingdom all things that offend and them which do ἀνομίαν;[42] and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
(Matthew 7:23 ἀνομίαν, ἀνόμους, without law)

Revelation 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the Earth, and gathered the vine of the Earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Revelation 16:16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

"The kingdom of heaven is not a reward, and gehenna is not a requital: both are gifts of the merciful God 'who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.'"

Rewards ...and the Lack Thereof

Matthew 22:10-13 ...Bind him hand and foot and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth:[14] for many are called, but few are chosen.

Matthew 25:1-13 Then shall the Kingdom of Heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.[2] And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. ...[11] Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.[12] But He answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. (Matthew 7:21-27)

Matthew 24:37-40 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.[38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,[39] and knew not until the flood came and took them all away. So shall also the coming of the Son of man be.[40] Then shall two be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other left...KJV

Exodus 20:4-6 and bestowing mercy on them that love Me to thousands of them, and on them that keep My commandments...LXX (Deuteronomy 18:18-19)
John 14:15-17 If ye love Me, keep My Commandments...KJV (John 12:48-50)

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and Thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that Thou shouldest give reward unto Thy servants the prophets and to the saints and them that fear Thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the Earth.KJV

Psalms 2:1-9 Wherefore did the heathen rage, and the nations imagine vain things?[2] The kings of the Earth stood up and the rulers gathered themselves together against the Lord and against His Christ:[3] saying, Let us break through Their bonds and cast away Their yoke from us.[4] He that dwells in the Heavens shall laugh them to scorn and the Lord shall mock them;[5] then shall He speak to them in His anger, and trouble them in His fury.[6] But I have been made king by Him on Sion His holy mountain,[7] declaring the Ordinance of the Lord: The Lord said to Me, Thou art My Son, to-day have I begotten Thee.[8] Ask of Me, and I will give Thee the Heathen for Thine inheritance and the ends of the earth for Thy possession.[9] Thou shalt rule them with a rod of iron, Thou shalt dash them in pieces as a potter’s vessel...LXX (Matthew 11:28-30, Revelation 2:24-27)