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Featured Is it normal to be fallible after being saved?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by JohnB445, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    I'm good. Thank you.
     
  2. All4Christ

    All4Christ ✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙ Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Every day we need to make a choice to follow God. He is there to help pick you back up each time you fall, which we all do. Keep focusing on the goal; it’s a marathon, not a sprint. God is there for you and is the One you can trust in for everything. If you find yourself in heresy, praise God for helping you see that error. Stop belief in it and turn to / continue following God.

    (One more note - baptism is important; I recommend looking into it soon.)
     
  3. danielmears

    danielmears Member Supporter

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    The fruit of the Spirit is joy, peace, love so relax! All things work to the good for the believer. You do not have to figure it all out, you surely will not, but love and believe! I just wrote this on my blog a couple of days ago. The Keys of the Kingdom
     
  4. JohnB445

    JohnB445 Well-Known Member

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    Yea and I did have such peace.

    Then people scare the living daylights out of me and it's gone. Why is this happening?

    I don't believe it's good to be scared. But I don't want to be wrong, then go on my way to hell for messing up.

    How will I mess up? I have absolutely no idea.

    But people say I'm going to mess up and lose my salvation.

    So this is just torture knowing that.
     
  5. JacobKStarkey

    JacobKStarkey Well-Known Member

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    What do people say that will make you lose your salvation? That you don't believe in the heresy of Rapture? That you don't believe in the gift of tongues? That you are Roman Catholic or whatever?
     
  6. JohnB445

    JohnB445 Well-Known Member

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    They are extremely vague, saying "yea, you can lose it somehow, we don't know exactly how though".

    And I'm like well thanks, now I need to worry 24/7 like a Vietnam vet. (Sarcasm).

    It's like if I make one minor mistake in ignorance then whoops I guess I lost my salvation forever and can't get it back.

    Then it's just a constant stream of "if you don't, if you don't, if you don't".

    Then add in another steam of it that contradicts all the other streams of "if you don't".

    I just want to go to a Calvinist church and just let them teach me and not care anymore what anyone else has to say because I can't live like this anymore with constant condemnation.

    No wonder why people fall away from the faith. Because people drive them absolutely nuts.
     
  7. JAYPT

    JAYPT Active Member

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    So Jesus said that no one can pluck you from His hand, no one can ever let you go. Is He a liar? No. Ezekiel says God removed your hear of stone and replaced it with a new one, one of flesh. Im not sure if anyone has told you about grace, but thats what the new covenant is, grace. Does that mean that when you mess up, your not forgiven already? No, Jesus looked down the timeline of your life and forgave you of all your sins on the cross. It is one sacrifice for ALL your sins, not just some. You are a completely forgiven person, once for all forgiveness. That is the good news. Anyone that tells you that you have to work for it is in error. You are not condemned but raised and seated in heavenly places with Christ.

    Remember, fear is a liar. And the liar is the evil one. Not from God. You have nothing to fear. You are sealed until the day of redemption.
     
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  8. JAYPT

    JAYPT Active Member

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    Salvation is not a feeling, its a knowing. Keep that in mind. Our feelings change, God doesnt change.
     
  9. JacobKStarkey

    JacobKStarkey Well-Known Member

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    You are part of your problem, and the answer is do not listen to nutty people.

    Go to Church. Read your scriptures. Pray daily. And since you can choose to be anything you want to be, choose to be kind. You will be fine.
     
  10. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    I am not God and I don’t know all, but I believe God is merciful. If you made a mistake and regret it, I believe it is forgiven. Good thing is, if you now understand better and want to live more correct way now. I believe God well understands our weaknesses and He is not petty. That is why I wouldn’t worry, God is good and great and I believe we can trust on this example:


    "Two men went up into the temple to pray; one was a Pharisee, and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed to himself like this: 'God, I thank you, that I am not like the rest of men, extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week. I give tithes of all that I get.' But the tax collector, standing far away, wouldn't even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."

    Luke 18:10-14

    Probably all make mistakes, crucial thing is that those who are righteous, repent and continue on right path, after they have made mistakes.

    For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises up again; But the wicked are overthrown by calamity.
    Pro. 24:16


    These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

    Mat. 25:46
     
  11. notreligus

    notreligus Member Supporter

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    Our unrighteousness was imputed to Christ; His righteousness is imputed to the Believer. The Book of Hebrews describes Him as our Great High Priest, our Mediator and our Intercessor. Think of Him as your attorney who stands before the Father and calls you righteous once you've put your faith in Him. You cannot save yourself. God's grace was shown to us in that His Son has done for us what we can not do for ourselves.

    You mentioned a pre-trib rapture. The belief in a pre-trib rapture came about in the early church because Christ was expected to return right away to set up an earthly political kingdom. The more recent church has been teaching that the Church must be raptured so that God can once again deal with Israel. It is taught that the tribulation period is for Israel. There are enough books on the rapture to fill a bookstore. The Bible lets us know all we need to know. Reconciliation has come by way of the Person, Jesus Christ; it will not come in the future through a nation called Israel. Jews and Gentiles became the One New Man in Christ.

    2 Cor. 5:16 From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.2 The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. 18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

    Gal 3:16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.

    Eph. 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

     
  12. DanishLutheran

    DanishLutheran Member

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    THIS is why I react so strongly to legalists who spread their filthy lies and thereby take the freedom in Christ away from the most vulnerable.
    It is also why the "Lutheran" distinction between law and gospel is so fundamental to Christianity.

    The truth is that as long as you are in Christ, you are saved. ALL your sins, past, present, future, were nailed to the Cross and the debt was paid in full.
    Of course this doesn't mean that we should then just go on living in sin as if nothing happened. Anyone who does this is actually denying what they claim to believe, because no one can truly believe in the sacrifice Christ brought, and then proceed to spit in His face by adding to it.

    Do note that "Living in sin" and "committing sins" are most decidedly NOT the same thing.
    The long and short of it is this: The Greek text uses two different tenses of the verb "to sin". One - when it describes the temporary, the one-time-events (no matter how many of them there are - 1 or 1.000.000.000 makes no difference) and another when it describes life as such.

    People who say that they do not commit sinful acts (meaning #1) are deceiving themselves. But Christians do not live in sin (meaning #2)

    I hope that cleared it up a little :) It's getting late here, and I'm ESL so I might not be able to get out what I intend well enough :sigh:
     
  13. JohnB445

    JohnB445 Well-Known Member

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    This is my 4th week of college, and I am too stressed out. Honestly I ended up doing all my work last second because theology was freaking me out all the time.
     
  14. JohnB445

    JohnB445 Well-Known Member

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    And I honestly do not want to sin anymore, sin ruined my life.

    When I was unsaved in the past I would go to bars with friends and drink underage, and I always would hate the aftermath. I was messed up.

    I don't do that anymore though.

    Now my toughest problems are theology based.
     
  15. Radagast

    Radagast is a Trinitarian Christian

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    All Christians are fallible.

    The best way of coping with this fallibility is to join a church with a good pastor who will explain the Scriptures.

    And your church should be part of a Bible-believing denomination, so that other pastors can check to see if your pastor makes mistakes.

    At this stage of your spiritual growth it doesn't matter too much which Bible-believing denomination you attend. Later on, as you understand the Bible better, you may see a need to switch, though.

    That too.

    As long as you were baptised in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, it doesn't matter what church it was in.

    It doesn't work like that. Once you're truly saved, you're saved for ever.

    Good choice. That's exactly what you should do.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  16. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Only one infallible human being has ever walked on this planet, His name is Jesus.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  17. JohnB445

    JohnB445 Well-Known Member

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    But how do I know that's its a Bible believing Church? And how do I know if he's teaching the right things.

    Because there will always be somebody that disagrees with what I learn, and I don't know everything.

    People will have a problem if I learn from a Calvinist which I learned most of my theology from, people will have a problem if I learn from a Baptist, people will have a problem if I learn from a Lutheran, and so on.

    How do I know if I'm right and they're wrong?

    I say Abortion and Homosexuality is a sin and should be condemned, there will always be a person who says I'm wrong for saying that.

    I say that we are saved by Grace through Faith, and the Grace transforms us, there will always be a person who says I'm wrong for saying that.

    And the like.


    So I have 3 options I can think of.

    1. Try my best to learn
    2. Stay in fear all the time and make no progress and be useless
    3. Just ask God to execute his judgment on me so I can either lower my punishment in hell, or maybe by chance I make it to heaven and I was just condemning myself in vain. But then if I somehow made it to heaven I just wasted my talents here and potential.


    I told God countless times, if I end up in hell, then I wish I was never even born.

    I have been getting thoughts, "What is the point of all this, if there is a chance of going to hell, I'd rather not even take the risk, why was I born in the first place?"
     
  18. Radagast

    Radagast is a Trinitarian Christian

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    If they say that they believe the Bible, and if they teach the Bible, that's a good sign.

    Like I say, your pastor should be part of a denomination so that other pastors can check. And of course, you should check what your pastor says against the Bible yourself.

    Stick with Calvinism. It's the correct theology.

    Go and attend a Calvinist Baptist or a conservative Reformed or a conservative Presbyterian church (given what you say about your beliefs, not the PCUSA).

    You are right. Just ignore the nay-sayers.
     
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    the Bible says the rapture happens after the tribulation.

    "Immediately after the tribulation... He shall send forth His angels to gather His elect" Matthew 24

    So that is the easy part.

    Committing "a sin" and/or "not understanding some Bible detail" after you become born-again ... does not mean you are not saved.

    If you commit sin - then confess and repent. 1 John 1:9
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Fine -- just keep reading the Bible, growing and learning

    "He who began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it" Phil 1:6

    Neither do I. Neither does anyone you or I know.

    Baptism is an outward sign that you are walking in obedience and have chosen Christ - and are born again. These are all events that happen before Baptism.

    If you get baptized the way the Bible describes baptism then you do not need to be baptized again EVEN if you happen to now be in a church that has less understanding of the Truth of God's Word - then the next church you happen to find. Just switch to that next church - you will be fine and your present Baptism will remain valid.
     
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