Is it Ethical to be fired for stating Christian beliefs

[Paidiske]

Australia has no Established religion, but we have no legally enshrined freedom of religion. Historically, in Australia, freedom of religion has been preserved by creating exemptions to other laws.

We've just had a large review of freedom of religion in Australia. That review can be read here: https://www.ag.gov.au/RightsAndProt...s-freedom-review-expert-panel-report-2018.pdf and our government's response to it can be read here: https://www.ag.gov.au/RightsAndProtections/HumanRights/Documents/Response-religious-freedom-2018.pdf

 

[keith99]

Exactly - practice your religion - but dont go around speaking your religion when you represent a national sport.

I'm going to disagree with what you said but quite likely not with what you mean. I see no problem speaking your religion when it is done in a civil manner. It is when it is done in a manner that is teh equivalent to spiting in the face of other people that it becomes an issue.

I remember being at the world sevens tournament when it was in San Diego and having a very nice chat with 4 young men who were Mormons. Interestingly 2 were Tongan and 2 were Samoan, groups that often had problems with each other at the time. Many of the teams I have played against have had Pacific Islanders make up a significant part of their team, occasionally almost the entire team. Often they are quite outspoken about their faith including that they do not drink because of it. Never any problems with that. For a few years the men's collegiate national championship here in the states was held on Friday and Saturday because one of the usual qualifiers was BYU and they would not play on Sunday. This was a significant inconvenience to the players on other teams who had to miss class because of it.

The Fijian national 7 a side team routinely prays before matches and many of their players make explicitly Christian gestures after a score, but not in the face of their opposition.

In my experience Rugby has been quite accepting of religious expression. Hopefully teh thoughtless actions of a few people will not change that.

 

[FireDragon76]

Jesus says nothing about her "shame" until after she has accepted His offer to relieve her from having to draw water from the well.

He does not bring up her shame first.

As we study this example of perfect evangelism, we have to think about what He did and ponder why He did it that way...and not the way we commonly do it.

Yeah, but that's because John follows the sign pattern. The living water Jesus speaks of is actually a sign for the reader explaining what Jesus is doing. It may have really happened but the primary purpose as a literary device is to catechize the reader in the meaning of Jesus' ministry.

 

[FireDragon76]

Australia has no Established religion, but we have no legally enshrined freedom of religion. Historically, in Australia, freedom of religion has been preserved by creating exemptions to other laws.

I think we discussed that before. I hope there is some kind of enshrined recognition soon.

I believe in the US a club would be within their rights to kick somebody out who said something like that, just due to free association, but I'm no lawyer, and there is a great deal of pressure right now by some groups to interpret religion more broadly other than rites in a place of worship and private life. I know you can't persecute people for their religious beliefs by denying them employment or public service, however.

 

[KCfromNC]

Some not realize that telling that people are going to hell if they practice sin is actually doing someone a favour and not 'hate speech'.

If someone said that Christians deserve to be tortured until they convert to a more palatable religion, I doubt you'd consider it a favor. Same problem with telling people they're going to be tortured because of something even more inherent to their person.

 

[KCfromNC]

For christians, being told they can't express what they believe is a big deal

If that is true for the player in question, he shouldn't have voluntarily agreed to withhold his views, then.

 

[Strathos]

Any sexual activity outside of a lawful marriage between a man and a woman is exceedingly sinful

I'm not talking about any specific case here. I'm talking about some people who like to claim things as foundational to Christianity that aren't in the Bible at all.

 

[KCfromNC]

I know you can't persecute people for their religious beliefs by denying them employment or public service, however.

I think it is important to distinguish "having religious beliefs" from "publicly attacking minority groups one disagrees with". Typically freedom of religion is concerned with people's ability to worship freely. If we're going to try to expand it into freedom to denigrate others without consequence I imagine you'll get some pushback.

 

[samwise gamgee]

Australian rugby's position is that it goes to great lengths to be inclusive.

And yet it excludes those who believe in following the Bible.

 

[FireDragon76]

And yet is excludes those who believe in following the Bible.

Following the Bible doesn't force anybody to say insensitive things.

 

[RDKirk]

Yeah, but that's because John follows the sign pattern. The living water Jesus speaks of is actually a sign for the reader explaining what Jesus is doing. It may have really happened but the primary purpose as a literary device is to catechize the reader in the meaning of Jesus' ministry.

Which doesn't remove the instructive capacity of the story.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

“If you love me, keep my commands."

I do. This is part of my love for God.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Espousing Christian beliefs along the lines of "I believe god exists", or "I believe in Jesus", or things of that nature are fine and certainly should not result in someone getting sacked.

If you want to denigrate other people that conflict with your beliefs, you don't get to escape the consequences of your words just because those are your religious beliefs.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

I'm not talking about any specific case here. I'm talking about some people who like to claim things as foundational to Christianity that aren't in the Bible at all.

Some examples might help clarify what you mean.

 

[Strathos]

Some examples might help clarify what you mean.

Believe it or not, there are people who claim that you have to believe that the earth is flat or you are denying the Bible.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Believe it or not, there are people who claim that you have to believe that the earth is flat or you are denying the Bible.

They might want to look at isa40:22

 

[Strathos]

They might want to look at isa40:22

Trust me, we've been over this with them many many times. They say it means a flat circle.

 

[RDKirk]

Believe it or not, there are people who claim that you have to believe that the earth is flat or you are denying the Bible.

These are people whose faith is in the bible, not in a living Christ. They study words on paper rather than listen for the Holy Spirit.

The believe in God because they know the bible, rather than believing the bible because they know God.

So for those people, an absolute literal interpretation of scripture is all they have, and any departure from that is like an earthquake shaking their foundation.

For those people, Psalm 19 has no meaning. I've heard them even say (in these forums and other places0 that God has designed creation to lie to men so that they'd have to read the bible to know the truth about creation--and thus, they deny Romans 1 as well.

 

[bhsmte]

Now before you jump onboard and say 'Of course its ethical' consider the current case that has dominated Australian media and Australian sport in particular.

Israel Folau is one of Australia's (if not the world's) greatest Rugby Union players. He is a match winner. He is talented beyond belief and has won an array of national and international sporting awards. He is currently in the Australian Rugby Union team called 'The Wallabies'.

Despite Israel's strong physical appearance, he is a highly personable, gentle and kind individual. He is extremely likeable. Israel is a Christian of the evangelistic ilk.

Rugby Union has as a very strong code of conduct. You will rarely see referee abuse from players - it prides itself on respect for all players, the referees and supporters. International players have particular responsibilities as so many people, particularly juniors, see them as role models. This added responsibility to acknowledge that whats said publicly must accord with the code of conduct, whether its said on the field or off it, is reinforced in player contracts.

Israel, despite being a very nice person has repeatedly made the following types of statements:
That those that are gay, unmarried people having sexual relationships, those that drink to excess....[the list goes on] are sinful and all going to hell.

Now Israel, of course, is making biblical references inline with his christian beliefs. He's not saying terrible things per se....HOWEVER - it has clearly been a breach of his contract and despite just recently signing a four year contract and despite being Australia's shining star - he has been sacked.

Israel Folau to be sacked by Rugby Australia over homophobic comments

Australian rugby's position is that it goes to great lengths to be inclusive. It is not concerned with who you choose to love, or that your mother is a single mother, or your father is in some sort of defacto relationship. It does not want those representing the sporting code to alter that perception with statements indicating that those following the sport are lesser individuals and are in some way bad for their sexual choices or marital status.

So the debate - religious freedom of speech versus the right of a sporting to code to insist its code of conduct is followed.

This has cost Israel Millions of dollars. He has lost sponsorship worth millions and his International rugby career is ended unless he can change his public statements.

Private organizations, can make rules as to what is acceptable behavior and dismiss anyone, who goes against it.

Just as a church (which is private) can kick out members, who dont follow their rules.

 

[RDKirk]

I do. This is part of my love for God.

In the US, the popular culture teaches people that "duty" and "obligation" are bad things. It's even seeped into Christian popular parlance.

But scripture is steeped in the concept of duty and obligation. Paul certainly observed he had duty and obligation to the Lord who had saved him.

Duty and obligation are not bad things. A person with a duty is in the playbook. He has an assignment, he has a role. He's not sitting on the bench, he's in the game.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Each one of us is in the playbook, each one of us has a fragment of Christ's mission to perform.