Is Islam's Mahdi the antichrist?

[Ivan Hlavanda]

There is one singular fatal flaw to Mahdi as Antichrist, and that is that Antichrist will declare himself God, which will be the highest form of blasphemy in Islam..

That is true. But I am sure that John MacArthur is aware of this and he has an explanation.

I think Satan may have set it up to be that, but God may play something else out rebuking Satan's attempts at setting things up for the end times through Islam.

Satan is a counterfeit. He mainly operates in the false religion. Maybe the Mahdi won't be the antichrist, the whole Islam is Satanic religion.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Seems to me you could point to the scripture about antichrist that teaches what you claim without resorting to linking a video of somebody else... I'm interested in what scriptures YOU have.

Because John MacArthur explains it better than I can.
1 John 2 18 Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.

There is a final Antichrist but there are in the meantime many Antichrists, and they are all defined as those who deny the true Christ and His relationship to His Father

 

[Jamdoc]

That is true. But I am sure that John MacArthur is aware of this and he has an explanation.

Satan is a counterfeit. He mainly operates in the false religion. Maybe the Mahdi won't be the antichrist, the whole Islam is Satanic religion.

Yeah, Islam has Satan's fingerprints all over it, from the bizarre way the Qur'an was given to Muhammad (an angel grabbed him by the throat in a cave and commanded him to write, but Muhammad was illiterate), to the fact that Muhammad thought himself he'd been possessed by a demon until a woman his wife knew encouraged him it was a true message from God, to the "fruits" of the religion, to the eschatological focus on killing Jews (and somehow Muslims don't seem to let it faze them that the Jews have miraculously beaten them multiple times in a war despite being such a tiny people and tiny nation).

Like it's obvious to me that Satan knows the scripture, and believe God had played His hand, so Satan made moves to set up a counterfeit religion with JUST enough truth to convince people with the end goal of eliminating the Jews so Jesus can't come back.
Back in 600AD, it was probably the play Satan intended to use, whether or not it still is now is up for debate.

and that's why I say while the anti-parallels are incredible, and shows the sign of supernatural influence, I'm not sure it's going to play out that way in our future even though Satan appears to have tried to set it up that way. It is possible though.
what better "2 horns like a lamb but speaks like a dragon" figure could their possibly be, than the Islamic version of Jesus, Isa?
we may find out but .. from our current vantage.. that'd dupe more people than other possibilities like some Atheist world leader, or a pope or anything like that, a guy literally claiming to be Jesus, Son of Mary, returned from heaven, and over a billion people believe it because he came just like the Qur'an said he would.
It would take very profoundly rooted faith in the Word of God to deny that someone with the name "Jesus" who appeared suddenly doing miracles and had a billion people saying this was the true Jesus.. It'd be very easy to think maybe your bible truly was edited over the centuries and translations and was wrong, and very easy to convert to Islam, especially when your life is threatened over it.

But I know, there's no salvation in that Jesus, that Jesus will tell you your works are how you get into heaven, and I know it's impossible for me to work my way in, if it's based on me I'm going to hell, my only hope is that Jesus atoned for me.
so I have to all in on Jesus dying on a cross for me, or I have nothing.

 

[Douggg]

The problem with your assumption is that you've doubled up on multiple assumptions to make Gog/Magog a separate event from the end of the age. Where the scripture itself (Ezekiel 38:17) identifies Gog as Antichrist.

But because it does not fit the "revived Roman empire"/EU interpretation you reject what scripture says and declare it to be some OTHER dictator that God has warned about through the prophets (where? where is some Russian dictator mentioned in scripture instead of Antichrist?)

You referred to Ezekiel 38:17.

16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?

Ezekiel lived 622-570 BC.

Micah during the period 737-696 BC.

Micah is the one who prophesied about the Assyrian.

Micah 5:5 And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men.

6 And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders.

So, the Assyrian is not talking about the Antichrist, as the Jews will lay waste to the Assyrian's homeland. The Assyrian could be talking about a king (leader) from the Iran area, who will head up the Muslim portion of the Gog/Magog group of nations.

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btw, I never wrote that a Russian "dictator" was leader of Russia. Putin may be the leader of Russia at the time of Gog/Magog. But I think Putin is an elected leader.

 

[Fisherking]

But Gog is antichrist, God does not ask the Rhetorical question in Ezekiel 38:17 with the answer being "no".

Gog is not the Anti-Christ, God destroys him (Russia leader is Gog the coalition he leads is Magog) and his cohorts, Iran, Turkey, Sudan....

Gog and Magog happens just before or just after the rapture and drives Israel into the Anti-Christs hands, they will join the E.U. that is the Agreement (Covenant) of Daniel 9:27.

 

[parousia70]

Because John MacArthur explains it better than I can.
1 John 2 18 Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.

There is a final Antichrist but there are in the meantime many Antichrists, and they are all defined as those who deny the true Christ and His relationship to His Father

We have no need to guess. John further explains the nature of the 'antichrist' they heard was coming:

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

John is clear. The "final", as you put it, antichrist they had heard was coming, was not a HE, but was an IT, and IT was a SPIRIT that affected many, and had already arrived.

 

[Jamdoc]

You referred to Ezekiel 38:17.

16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?

Ezekiel lived 622-570 BC.

Micah during the period 737-696 BC.

Micah is the one who prophesied about the Assyrian.

Micah 5:5 And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men.

6 And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders.

So, the Assyrian is not talking about the Antichrist, as the Jews will lay wast to the Assyrian's homeland. The Assyrian could be talking about a king (leader) from the Iran area, who will head up the Muslim portion of the Gog/Magog group of nations.

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btw, I never wrote that a Russian "dictator" was leader of Russia. Putin may be the leader of Russia at the time of Gog/Magog. But I think Putin is an elected leader.

Yes, prophets like Micah talked about Antichrist, so did Isaiah (Isaiah 14's famous passage about Lucifer.. is actually a passage about the King of Babylon in the end times, AND Satan simultaneously it's about Antichrist), and Zechariah (the worthless shepherd), and of course Daniel.

Show me where in scripture God spoke of in old time by the prophets about a non Antichrist dictator from Russia.
Because this is a Rhetorical question from God, and the answer is of course yes.

Gog is not the Anti-Christ, God destroys him (Russia leader is Gog the coalition he leads is Magog) and his cohorts, Iran, Turkey, Sudan....

Gog and Magog happens just before or just after the rapture and drives Israel into the Anti-Christs hands, they will join the E.U. that is the Agreement (Covenant) of Daniel 9:27.

Same question to you, God doesn't warn repeatedly through the prophets about some non Antichrist Russian leader, God warns about Antichrist.

Men taught you the Penultimate Russian Dictator Gog. The bible doesn't.

 

[Douggg]

Show me where in scripture God spoke of in old time by the prophets about a non Antichrist dictator from Russia.

Where are getting "dictator" from ? I have never said it.

Putin may be the leader of Russia when Gog/Magog takes place. But i did not call him a dictator.

 

[Fisherking]

Same question to you, God doesn't warn repeatedly through the prophets about some non Antichrist Russian leader, God warns about Antichrist.

Men taught you the Penultimate Russian Dictator Gog. The bible doesn't.

THINK NOW, I have been called unto prophecy nigh 40 years now, THINK NOW:

Reread Ezekiel 38 and 39, does Gog & Magog conquer Israel? No, God consumes them with fire.

Now read Dan. 11:40-43, Zech. 14:1-2, Rev. 12 where he chases Israel into the wilderness or Rev. 13 where he overcomes the [Jewish] Saints. And in many more places, the Anti-Christ defeats and conquers Israel, nowhere in the bible can you show me where Gog and Magog defeats and conquers Israel.

I do the simple stuff first brother.

 

[Jamdoc]

Where are getting "dictator" from ? I have never said it.

Putin may be the leader of Russia when Gog/Magog takes place. But i did not call him a dictator.

that is.. really unimportant to the point.
the point was, where does God warn about some other nefarious character from Russia in scripture. Because Ezekiel 17 is a rhetorical question
"Aren't you the guy I warned Israel about through the prophets for hundreds of years?"

There's 2 ways to look at this question:
1. God doesn't know, and is honestly asking if this is the guy
or
2. God does know, and is asking him rhetorically
God is declaring prophecy, something that would happen thousands of years after the prophecy was written down, of course God knows who Gog is and has warned Israel about him through the writings of the prophets for hundreds of years.

and my question to you is... where?
because all the passages I can identify, are about Antichrist. Remember, Daniel was a contemporary of Ezekiel, Daniel is even mentioned by name.
Isaiah 14 starts out as a passage about the King of Babylon, then jumps to Lucifer and his sin, fallen from heaven, IE not a human king, and then God refers to him as the Assyrian.
ALL IN THE SAME PASSAGE. This is Antichrist. The Assyrian is also the title used in Micah 5, that Jesus destroys.

So where then, are prophets warning about someone else that is Gog, but not Antichrist?

THINK NOW, I have been called unto prophecy nigh 40 years now, THINK NOW:

Reread Ezekiel 38 and 39, does Gog & Magog conquer Israel? No, God consumes them with fire.

Now read Dan. 11:40-43, Zech. 14:1-2, Rev. 12 where he chases Israel into the wilderness or Rev. 13 where he overcomes the [Jewish] Saints. And in many more places, the Anti-Christ defeats and conquers Israel, nowhere in the bible can you show me where Gog and Magog defeats and conquers Israel.

I do the simple stuff first brother.

the conquest of Israel isn't discussed in Ezekiel 38 true, but Ezekiel 39 discusses Armageddon, the same stuff as Revelation 19. so yes, Antichrist is destroyed in the mountains to the north in Israel, but after he'd conquered it.

Compare the language in this passage to parts of Revelation

17 Thus saith the Lord God; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?

First, the Rhetorical question by God. If God is NOT identifying Gog as Antichrist, then where in scripture is God warning about a non Antichrist invasion from the North? I have yet to ever be answered this by anyone parroting the Russian Non-Antichrist Gog interpretation.
Ever.
They cannot do it. They can't find a passage of scripture about some other guy in the end of the age that does this.

18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord God, that my fury shall come up in my face.
19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

This sounds like Revelation 11 and Revelation 16, the great Earthquake, it could also be connected to the 6th seal. Some people overlap those events and to some degree, I have to concede that yes, the Earthquake fits all 3. The thing that doesn't fit is that the trumpets come after the 7th seal.

21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord God: every man's sword shall be against his brother.
22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

These are trumpet and bowl judgement things. 1st trumpet, 1st bowl, and 7th bowl in particular.

23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the Lord.

These things will be undeniable acts of God.
and the crazy thing is.. people who do not believe Gog is Antichrist, will say that Gog will get destroyed before ever actually getting into Israel supernaturally, everyone will acknowledge God... and then... completely memory hole all of it and worship Antichrist a couple years later?


and let's go into Ezekiel 39 which makes it even more ridiculous

4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.
6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the Lord.
7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel.

So yeah.. you believe that God will do this pre-trib, and then a couple years later people will just forget all about it and worship Antichrist?

not to mention this:

17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord God; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord God.

Compare with Revelation 19's supper of the great God.

 

[Douggg]

and my question to you is... where?

I answered that the Assyrian of Micah 5 appears to be referring to the leader of the Muslim nations that take part in the Gog/Magog event.

So where then, are prophets warning about someone else that is Gog, but not Antichrist?

Gog is not the Antichrist. The Antichrist to be the Antichrist must be anointed the King of Israel, some one that the Jews will think his is their messiah. Of course, they are not going to be thinking of him as the Antichrist. The Jews, Judaism, correctly say the Antichrist term is something of the New Testament. They put no stock in the New Testament.

 

[Jamdoc]

I answered that the Assyrian of Micah 5 appears to be referring to the leader of the Muslim nations that take part in the Gog/Magog event.

Yeah, Antichrist, because it's the Antichrist and false prophet that the Messiah destroys.

Micah 5 is often quoted to identify the birthplace of Messiah, and even point out that He is eternal. But the context is that Messiah destroys the Assyrian who came against Israel.
This is not something that happened in the first century, Assyria was already long gone as an Empire at that time, so this prophecy about the Assyrian is related to the second coming.

Gog is not the Antichrist. The Antichrist to be the Antichrist must be anointed the King of Israel, some one that the Jews will think his is their messiah. Of course, they are not going to be thinking of him as the Antichrist. The Jews, Judaism, correctly say the Antichrist term is something of the New Testament. They put no stock in the New Testament.

This is not mutually exclusive. Remember I have said, that Antichrist will be a lot of things simultaneously. Isaiah 14 refers to him as the King of Babylon, Lucifer, and the Assyrian all in the same passage.
He will also be accepted as the Messiah after conquering them. This is not mutually exclusive. Antichrist takes Jerusalem by force, that's clear in both the Olivet Discourse, and Daniel 11 (and Ezekiel 38 and Micah 5). But Jesus did say that Antichrist would be received by the Jews that rejected Him, you're correct on that. But Antichrist is going to do both things.

 

[Micmac]

We have no need to guess. John further explains the nature of the 'antichrist' they heard was coming:

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

John is clear. The "final", as you put it, antichrist they had heard was coming, was not a HE, but was an IT, and IT was a SPIRIT that affected many, and had already arrived.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Some people think 'antichrist' always indicates there's no such thing as one man emerging in the last days. They tell us that the end-time 'anti-Christ' is never called "the anti-Christ" in scripture and that it's a 'spirit' and NOT an individual, but they aren't paying attention to the verse.

The definition of anti-Christ in the epistles of John, represents anything or 'anybody' that is an adversary of the Messiah. 1st and 2nd John shows us what anti-Christ IS proclaiming the denial of Christ a damnable heresy.

Among other names, the anti-Christ is called the "man of sin and the lawless one." He IS one individual since there are several times personal pronouns are used to describe him.

This verse has one word for antichrist that is singular, the other plural, and wasn't translated correctly in the KJV.

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that (THE) antichrist (singular) shall come, even now are there many antichrists; (plural) whereby we know that it is the last time.

The verse actually reads in the Greek interlinear like this...

Little boys and girls, it is the last hour and according as ye hear that THE "instead-anointed" (antichrist) is coming and now many instead anointeds have become.....

The end-time anti-Christ, AKA is likely the Islamic dajjal. The Madhi is likely the false prophet. The Muslim Jesus is just that. A false Christ.

www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...NTpdf/1jo2.pdf
Over a dozen bible translations use the word 'the' in the translation of 1 John 2:18. Like the NIV does...

"Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour."

I would actually interpret this verse like this,

"Many antichrist have come, and the antichrist is coming, that's how you will know it's the last hour."

The translations that omit the word THE do so mistakenly and really do a disservice to the understanding of the verse. The 1611 translators omitted it because it IS in the Greek interlinear.

ANTICHRIST VERSES

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that (THE) antichrist (Singular)shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

 

[Jipsah]

Sorry Maria, as a man called unto Prophecy nigh 40 years ago, if I have debunked this one time I have debunked it 1000 times.

So you're saying it clearly can't mean what it says. That's good to know. It really means that the Lord will return in a couple of thousand years, but He'll arrive at high speed. So that wasn't really crucial info fo the folks in the 7 Churches, was it?

 

[Jipsah]

We have no need to guess. John further explains the nature of the 'antichrist' they heard was coming:

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

John is clear. The "final", as you put it, antichrist they had heard was coming, was not a HE, but was an IT, and IT was a SPIRIT that affected many, and had already arrived.

C'mon mate. that's way too easy.

 

[The Liturgist]

Muhammed Ahmed al Mahdi, who claimed to be the Mahdi, killed a great many in Khartoum including the British general Charles Gordon, who refused orders from the British government to flee with his life in a heroic attempt to get the British to send soldiers to defend the city. Ironically Muhammed Ahmed then died three months later. He was rather brilliantly depicted by Sir Laurence Olivier in the 1967 epic film Khartoum, also featuring Charleton Heston as Gordon.

I regard Muhammed Ahmed as being the prototypical modern day Islamic terrorist, the first contemporary Muslim to commit atrocities as a means of securing further power in the manner exemplified by the false prophet himself in Medina.

 

[parousia70]

Among other names, the anti-Christ is called the "man of sin and the lawless one."

What scripture calls the antichrist the man of sin and lawless one?

You appear to be taking two separate, distinct biblical personalities and conflating them into one, in the total and complete abnsense of ANY scriptural instruction to do so.

What scripture teaches you that these are the same?

 

[Douggg]

The verse actually reads in the Greek interlinear like this...

Little boys and girls, it is the last hour and according as ye hear that THE "instead-anointed" (antichrist) is coming and now many instead anointeds have become.....

The end-time anti-Christ, AKA is likely the Islamic dajjal. The Madhi is likely the false prophet. The Muslim Jesus is just that. A false Christ.

The person who becomes the Antichrist does so by being 'anointed' King of Israel' thought to-be-messiah by the Jews. The person has to be a Jew. The Antichrist stage of the person will last from right after Gog/Magog event to the day that he goes in to the temple and sits, claiming to have achieved God-hood.... so about 3 years in length.

Then after a short stint as the revealed man of sin stage, he becomes the beast stage. I show that transition on my chart below.

----------------------------------------------------
The muslim belief is that the dajjal will be blind in one eye which will be deformed bulging like a grape. And the name "Kaffir' written on his forehead - which only Muslims will be able to see..

The muslim end times scenario is that the Mahdi and dajjal will becom engaged in a do or die battle that could go either way - when Isa, the muslim Jesus, returns and kills the dajjal.

None of those things match with the biblical end times prophecies. Islam is full of false prophecies that will never come to pass.

----------------------------------------------------

 

[ViaCrucis]

I don't believe in Shi'a (or any branch of Islam's) articles of faith. That means I don't believe in the existence of the Mahdi. It's just a false teaching from a false religion as far as I'm concerned.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[The Liturgist]

I don't believe in Shi'a (or any branch of Islam's) articles of faith. That means I don't believe in the existence of the Mahdi. It's just a false teaching from a false religion as far as I'm concerned.

-CryptoLutheran

Indeed, my view on this subject would be that if a Muslim were to mention the Mahdi to me I would insist that they had to be referring to the Sudanese terrorist, since as Laurence Olivier demonstrated with some Shakespearean acting in Khartoum, Muhammed Ahmed did posess all the signs that are supposed to accompany the Mahdi. Which is of course because the Quran is at most a preternatural combination of the fever-dreams of a lunatic caravaner and the suggestions of a demon, and is otherwise a fabrication.