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Is husband controlling??

Brian Mcnamee

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Hi you have already compromised or lets say conformed to his wishes and in now way are you behaving irresponsibly. In a marriages there is supposed to be a healthy balance on leadership by the male without being any superior. The choice to be submissive is a directive in scripture. But the husband should be laying his life down for his wife like Christ did for the church. I think you should be honest and tell him you love him. Tell him you have compromised more in this area for him than he realizes and he does not seem to appreciate your willingness to change your life style for him. That on the rare occasions where you have your own liberty to have your own way he should back off. if he died tomorrow and you were a widow on Sat night there would probably be a glass of red being enjoyed. You do not sound like an alcohol abuser to me. This area seem like a bit of a power struggle. If he forces his way and shame you he is losing respect in your eyes and this could be a place where a root of bitterness can come in. Ask him other than this is he happy with you? if he is tell him to continue being happy with you and to relax a little.
 
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Servant of Yeshua

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My gut (though not popular I am sure) is that if you husband felt strongly about you not having alcohol, then out of respect for him and the wisdom that God has given him, that you simply do not have alcohol. You do not need it, you just want it.

He feels that you do not respect him. And seriously it seems like you do not. You want what you want.

But God may have given him wisdom as the head of the household that there not be any alcohol in the house. I have friends who had alcohol in the house and one of their 5 children is a horrible alcoholic and has honestly ruined the home. That may never be the case for your future but either way, God may have made him sensitive to it for a very good reason. Samson in the bible was never to cut his hair or drink. That is what God calls for some, not all. So be thankful you can cut your hair

Whenever you are stressed and really longing deeply in your heart for a drink of wine ( I get it), turn to Jesus and look to Jesus to be your relief. People often turn to alcohol, food, gambling, smoking, shopping etc INSTEAD of turning to Jesus and allowing Him to be our comfort and joy.

I will pray for you and your husband. That you can acknowledge and follow his lead of being the leader in your home, and that he will be loving and have you know that he would give his life for you. You are both inperfect, flawed sinful humans, BUT with following the Lord's plan for marriage, God can transform your marriage into what it it should be and restore the LOVE that brought you to where you wanted to marry each other in the first place. Peace to you!!
 
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enealey

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I honestly do appreciate both viewpoints on this issue. It further tells me that this isn’t really a cut and dry situation for a lot of people. The fact that I lied is definitely a wrong thing and it’s clear that I shouldn’t have. I honestly think it was my way to avoid confrontation like the gentleman above said.

There are many things about our relationship that I’ve left out. I feel I’m manipulated in other ways and maybe if you knew the whole story, your opinion may be different. I could talk about some other things but I feel like it would be going off on a tangent. In summary, there are many things I have asked my husband to do or not do. He may not lie about them but he either continues to do them or not do them against my wishes, just outright and not in secret.

Ok one small example: He continues to mention our lack of intimacy as a problem that I am responsible for. I simply CAN’T feel that loving feeling for someone who treats me as a child... and continues to have a sleep pattern that I believe is part of the problem too. He claims he is a night owl and that it’s a genetic thing (?!). So his bedtime is 2-3 am most days. That means he wakes up at 10:30-11:30 am. This pushes his whole day forward. So by the time he’s finished dinner he often isn’t done working and so he’ll finish that and maybe go to the gym and by the time he is ready to spend time with me or our family, I am spent. I have a disability called FSHD, a form of muscular dystrophy. It’s progressive and so it means that my muscles are continuing to weaken and will continue to get worse throughout my life. I will very likely be in a wheelchair in the next 10 years. Cooking dinner and keeping up with household chores are often times very difficult for me. So by 9:00, my body is DONE. I am done. I try and stay up but it’s a losing battle and by 10, I am asleep. But according to him, our lack of intimacy is all because of me. This is one of so many things where I feel like he’s shifted blame on me... he says he could come to bed with me even though he would get up after I’m asleep but that honesty never happens.

..... And I guess this is where the crazy cycle is... we could just keep coming up with reasons why we have a right to do what we want to do because we are being treated unfairly. This is what I don’t want. What is your opinion about the above example. I definitely think I need to bring this up to the counselor. It doesn’t really have anything to do with the alcohol issue, but these are the kinds of things where resentment builds on my end. And yes I’ve talked to him about this before and he doesn’t see it as a problem and turns it around on me. It is a problem right? At this point I have no desire either so this has continued for quite some time.

Goodness we need major help
 
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Dave-W

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Is there something wrong with enjoying wine? No I don’t feel like I NEED it, but to me it is one of life’s pleasure just like food or something like that. Am I wrong for that?
Nothing wrong with that; but depending on his upbringing, he may see that very differently. I was raised with the idea that even accidentally smelling alcohol was the sin of drunkenness and you lost salvation. If his beliefs are similar, then ANY use of a glass of wine would be too much.

But I do agree with Paidiske that him trying to enforce his beliefs on you is controlling and legalistic.
 
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Dave-W

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We do not need to hear those details.

But please be sure to write them all down and bring them up with the counselor. ALL of that stuff needs to be brought to light. Write them down so you can check them off to make sure they ALL are brought up.
 
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Endeavourer

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In summary, there are many things I have asked my husband to do or not do. He may not lie about them but he either continues to do them or not do them against my wishes, just outright and not in secret.

So you both have things you ask the other not to do. Doing them anyway is independent behavior and will kill the love in the marriage. The two of you need to negotiate in a way that both of you are enthusiastic about the decision on these things. "I"m not enthusiastic about that" is a deal killer. It could be you'd be enthusiastic about him doing some of those things if he did them a different way or at a different time, etc etc etc. If he wants a wife who's in love with him, which is VERY much worth the effort, he'll make sure to not do things that bother you.

Where the controlling dynamic comes in is that you have to endure his independent behaviors and selfish demands or else he punishes you with disrespect.. and then anger to the level that it deters you from doing the things he doesn't want you to do. Since you apparently don't raise an anger outburst to the level it deters his behavior, it feels like he is controlling and you feel like you are not.

Your marriage will be on a slow burn towards a heap of ashes if you two do not fix this dynamic. It doesn't take expensive counseling; it just takes a commitment of marriage - a commitment of extraordinary care towards each other. Without that you have no marriage and you are just managing the slow death of your relationship.

What did you and your husband think of those articles? They describe exactly how my husband and I resolve conflicts in our marriage. In our case, conflicts are an opportunity to show love and care to the other person. When we each have a different desire towards a particular circumstance, we negotiate upfront with our takers. Since we know that nothing will be done without each other's enthusiastic agreement (each of our takers get to win), there aren't any emotional stakes in the brainstorming (or disrespect) and we can discuss options with abandon until we finally hit one we both are enthusiastic about. One of our favorite sayings during our discussions are "this is just throwing mud on the wall, but what about...."

We NEVER discuss the other's ideas or desires in terms of their morality or, lol, stupidity. If it doesn't suit the other person we just say "I"m not enthusiastic about that". No educating each other or moralizing at each other.

After resolving conflict we are usually more in love with each other than before. This is because if you are each ministering to the other's taker, and neither will accept the reluctant acquiescence of the other, by the time the discussion is done, you're enthusiastic about the decision and you experienced the loving care that the other person exercised in order to make sure you are happy with the result.

We've had some tall conflicts to resolve but, using that method, we've never had a fight and we are enjoying the 4th year of honeymoon bliss, in spite of blending a family that had many children between the two of us, including 4 teenagers. Also, after the marriage my husband lost his enthusiasm for a material criteria I had for a marriage so we had to work through what felt to me like an enormous change of terms.

Ok one small example: He continues to mention our lack of intimacy as a problem that I am responsible for.

First problem:

I simply CAN’T feel that loving feeling for someone who treats me as a child...

Nor should you. With the negotiating method I mentioned above you would not feel like a child but like a partner.

Also if part of this is a tendency to educate you, you need to let him know it bothers you each time he starts to do this Educating your spouse is definitely a love buster.

Second problem:


When one partner wants a physical connection, it's up to them to create the conditions for the other person to desire it as well. If he wants more connections but refuses to pursue them within the bounds of your limitations then he doesn't really want it very bad and is just using this to blame and control you. If it meant enough for him to connect with you when you were able to, he'd do it. Rather, he just wants to assert selfish demands that he get what he wants when he wants it regardless of any consideration of you.

It's up to him to create the groundwork for you to not just tolerate but desire it. That means behaving like a person you would love to have connections with. Also, for women to enjoy a physical connection we first need an emotional connection and a prospect of pleasure. His job as a husband is to provide those to you.

What do you think of these articles?
The question of the ages: How can a husband receive the sex he...
How to Overcome Sexual Aversion (Marriage Builders®, Inc.)


..... And I guess this is where the crazy cycle is... we could just keep coming up with reasons why we have a right to do what we want to do because we are being treated unfairly. This is what I don’t want.

So what I've noticed in your posts, which is VERY typical of a spouse who is being abused or controlled, is sin leveling. You are using the word "we" when addressing the issue of being forced to do what you don't want to do.

Often counselors (and pastors) allow the victim to assume blame for her/his reaction as equally as they blame the perpetrators for the perpetration. Usually, the victims are victims because they have earnestly searched their own behaviors looking for what they are doing to contribute to the dynamic and are tender towards making any changes they need to make in order to stop the abuse. This is because victims often are not seeing the 30,000 foot level view to realize they are being abused. They just know they keep doing things that result in painful outcomes (abuse).

Because victims are so eager to change and look for blame in themselves, it's easy for counselors and pastors to deflect to sin leveling to try to help solve the problem. "Perpetrator, you need to stop xyz, but Victim, you need to also stop abc (abc being your behaviors in reaction to xyz)" See how this equalizes the blame, makes it 50/50 and does not focus on getting the perpetrator to stop? Because the victim is only too willing to stop their misery, they try very hard to stop abc. The problem is that abc is the result of xyz, which the Perpetrator now gets to say is all is the victim's fault because of abc...AND he now has cover - provided by the counselor or pastor - to keep doing xyz.... 'cause abc.

Sadly I've seen this dynamic play out many, MANY times. In my work as a lay person volunteer ministering to marriages, I see it so many times that I've stopped recommending people go to their pastor or a counselor. Often counseling causes greater damage to the marriage and pain to the victim. There are good counselors, but it's hard to know that your particular counselor is one of those.

I really love the resources at marriagebuilders.com. The methodology taught there combats this dynamic and successfully creates a foundation for happy marriages. I'd recommend you post at the (free) forum there for specific advice (it will be along the lines of my posts to you) for step by step help prior to seeing a counselor. Sometimes both spouses post so the volunteers there are able to help you out better.

Here is a great article for you about the methodology of saving your marriage:
How Dr. Harley Learned to Save Marriages (Marriage Builders®,...
 
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Endeavourer

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I don’t want a divorce, but we will need to communicate a lot better to not be headed that way.

It's not the marital communication that is driving you towards that very sad and unfortunate end, it's the marital behaviors.

Regardless of how high of a value you place on marriage and how deeply you might despise the idea of divorce, if you continue on this path your body will start to break down and health issues will develop and for the sake of your health/life, you will be faced with the necessity of divorce.

A woman's body is not strong enough to take continued abuse. A woman's body will often respond to crippling and/or long term stress with either some autoimmune disease that flares up or heart damage. Autoimmune diseases and heart damage are often irreversible once inflamed.
 
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enealey

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These give me some great things to think about over the next couple of weeks. We are about to go visit my parents and he has made it clear he doesn’t want to have a discussion about anything without the presence of a counselor. So I will endure this very long trip north (two days in the car). I appreciate the resources to read and consider. I will have a lot of time to think. Thank you!
 
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enealey

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Also I’m a bit worried that seeing a counselor will not help either. If he hears something he doesn’t want to hear, I’m afraid he will dismiss it because the center we are going to is Presbyterian and not Baptist. It’s the biggest and most reputable counseling service in our area and highly recommended by friends. But I’m afraid he won’t listen. I guess I have to just do all I can do at this point to show I want to get help.
 
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RaymondG

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There is little hope in expecting the worst. If you desire things to get better, you must first believe that they will...........
 
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Paidiske

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To be honest, couples counselling is often not recommended in a situation where there's a controlling or abusive dynamic, because the abuser is often able to manipulate the counsellor (as Endeavourer outlined so neatly above) and use the counselling to perpetuate control of the other. I would be more inclined to suggest starting with individual counselling.
 
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enealey

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I’ve thought of this, but it seems like many are of the thought that this is not an abusive situation... maybe I should call the counselor and see what she thinks regarding an individual session to start with. I just know that is going to look to my husband that I am trying to get in first and get her on my side. I do know I would feel much freer to speak with her if he were not there initially. I really want to get to the truth of what is really happening and if the main problem is me then I need to work on ME I guess.
 
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Paidiske

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This might be another way that your GP might be a helpful first stop. They should be able to help you impartially assess your situation, and perhaps refer you to someone who does specialise in these sorts of issues.
 
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eleos1954

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hmmm .... I'd quit the alcohol for the time being and go to prayer about it ... if the subject comes up ... just say you are in prayer about it (true because you are)

Lies in any form serves no good purpose.

In the meantime .... you need to be mindful of other ways he may be displaying a controlling nature. That is ... is it just the alcohol or other things? and what are those things?

It's not the wine necessarily ... is he being controlling about other things.

Basically, take mental notes about what is going on.

God Bless.
 
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Dave-W

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maybe I should call the counselor and see what she thinks regarding an individual session to start with.
Do you think your husband would be ok with that?

Many guys are very apprehensive of their wives talking about their "private stuff" with them not being present.
 
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Endeavourer

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Also I’m a bit worried that seeing a counselor will not help either. ......, I’m afraid he will dismiss it because the center we are going to is Presbyterian and not Baptist.

Be careful with this. My experience with faith based counseling has been that often the woman's "Biblical" submission is the trump card that is played in order to force the wife to cave (or even cater to) to the man's marriage destroying behaviors. As a person of deep faith, this pains me very much to recognize. It's even worse than sin leveling - it's sin shifting.

If "nouthetic" counseling is used, the result is even worse. In my observations, nouthetic counseling does not have a safe methodology to address abuse.

Per wiki: "Nouthetic counseling (Greek: noutheteo, to admonish) is a form of Evangelical Protestant pastoral counseling based solely upon the Bible and focused on Christ." I've seen the wife being admonished for insubordination/unsubmissiveness as well as the perpetrator being protected with sin leveling because the victim does abc (per explanation above).

In a faith based environment*, their client is usually NOT the marriage - it's the salvation of both parties. Pastors and nouthetic counselors will sacrifice the victim to try to minister to the perpetrator in their hopes that they will establish some report with the perpetrator and can persuade him to Christ.

*There are few exceptions to this but there are some. Paidiske is a pastor who is commenting on this blog, so I want to affirm that she's one of those pastors who 'gets' this. She would be a safe pastor for counsel in an abusive situation. She is in a small minority, unfortunately.
 
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archer75

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Do you think your husband would be ok with that?

Many guys are very apprehensive of their wives talking about their "private stuff" with them not being present.
Respecting that, if a guy did feel that way, is a recipe for disaster. Everyone has a right to talk in private.
 
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enealey

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Do you think your husband would be ok with that?

Many guys are very apprehensive of their wives talking about their "private stuff" with them not being present.
No, he probably would not like this at all. So that’s why I haven’t really entertained the thought. Maybe the counselor will see the dynamic when we go in and suggest it for the next session herself. I really do at least want to show him that I’m owning up to my mistake... so maybe an individual session first would not be good. I just don’t know
 
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enealey

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He would not be in support of going to anyone but a faith based counselor. A Presbyterian at that is stretching it for him. Having a woman be the counselor assigned to us is even a further stretch. I really feel like I’m doing the best I can with what is offered around here that he will work with. I really do feel stuck between a rock and a hard place.
 
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