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thanks for the response, coffee.Heaven.
The final destination is the new earth.
2 Peter 3:13
But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
Heaven is like the waiting room for Christians.
thanks for the response, coffee.
Wow. I like this take. Succinct, too. I believe there are some passages that indicate Heaven will eventually be here on earth. "the meek shall inherit" comes to mind but I but I believe there are even more than the one you've offered.
Wait. No carnal pleasures? Aww, man. Where does it say that?Still its one rather nice waiting room. Less like what you might find at your accountants office and more along the lines of the First Class lounge on Emirates or Swiss, the sort of lounge with all you can eat caviar and bedrooms to sleep in between flights.
I of course am joking; unlike Islam we believe Heaven is devoid of mere carnal pleasures, but instead is a realm of joyous union with God.
This is a fascinating story, Bob. Careful what you wish for, I suppose, but I'd like to experience something like this. Supernatural, I guess would be the word. Ironically, I just posted a response saying that Jesus is the only one who appeared after death, but as you said, there are others that have had this type of experience.I think that's rather common. I remember visiting an uncle of mine (the same man who came to tell me my own father had died, but who died himself a few months later), and he said he could see "Grandma" "over there". He was sort of pointing towards the far side of the hospital ward.
At the time I wasn't a Christian and I thought he was hallucinating from the painkillers they'd given him, plus the effects of the cancer. But there was an eerie sense in the room.
I think angels come to take us when we did if we're going to heaven or purgatory. But if we're going to hell, I think demons turn up. They are, after all, fallen angels.
I claim to have the peculiar experience of my own father turning up in the bedroom of the unit I was living in on the night he died himself, despite not knowing where I was living. I didn't want him to know.
I still remember he looked a bit surprised himself as he started to materialise near the door. I assume he'd either asked, or been told, to apologise to me for the years of cruelty he'd inflicted, which is what his opening words were about. No sooner had he asked or been told than he found himself in my room, despite not knowing where I was. He died a good ten miles away. I didn't find out for another four days in the normal fashion as his body wasn't found for four days, and the above mentioned uncle turned up.
The end of the episode was when he gave this absolutely blood curdling scream, and then just vanished. It was obvious that something was coming for him.
So I don't have any illusions whatsoever that the "particular judgment" takes place immediately after death. In fact if I'd had the presence of mind to note the time, I think I could have given a very accurate time of death.
We had quite a conversation and I still remember most of it 42 years later as at January just gone.
The spiritual world is quite different to ours. They've only got to think about something, or be given their marching orders, and it happens immediately. Everything we do takes time - it's not that way for spiritual beings.
I'm not the only one by the way. An elderly lady I met via my last job told me something similar happened to her. Her husband had a brain embolism, and he only was being kept alive by machines. He was dying.
The hospital staff had already told her they were going to turn off the machines the next day, and if he couldn't breath, he'd die.
But that night something "white" sat on the end of the bed. She said she was freaking out, and wondered what the hell was going on! But then it spoke and she immediately knew the voice. It was her husband and he'd come to apologise for the way he'd treated her.
Interestingly, their eldest daughter had the very same experience. Apparently he'd been very abusive to her as well, far more so than the other children.
So he was sent to apologise to both of them. Obviously he'd died that night before they got around to turning off the machines.
I don't know how the episode ended, and I don't think it was as dramatic as my experience with my father screaming his spiritual head off about six feet away and then disappearing into eternity. But it was still similar.
Our personal judgement takes place immediately after death. No question.
PS - Our of sheer curiosity I checked the distance from the unit where my father died to where I was living at the time. Both buildings still exist as far as I know.
According to Google Maps, it would have taken about 21 minutes and 17.5km by road, via what we call the M7 (tunnel) and the Airport Link (also via a tunnel), neither of which existed back then, so it would have been further and taken longer in those days. It was probably about 16kms in a straight line or thereabouts, which is close to 10 miles.
He found himself in my room immediately but he didn't know where I lived, as I'd made of point of not telling him. I loathed him. And amongst the things he said was "Son, you have to forgive me! ... If you don't you'll destroy yourself!"
thanks for the reply, Raymond.I believe that heaven is obtainable now.....and after you obtain it, you pass from death to life.....never to die again.
"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"
Therefore, even though it may appear to us, that one has died, they, themselves, have not experienced death....and are living as they were before...
For those who have not obtained heaven in this life....the story is a little different....but, base on your OP, this case does not apply, so I wont waste time on it.
thanks forthe reply, 1213.I think she can be in paradise. And I believe it may be the other place where people wait for the judgment day. The other place is Hades.
Jesus said to him, "Assuredly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise."
Luke 23:43
thanks for the reply, Kilk1.From what I've been able to tell, the spirits of the dead prior to the Second Coming go to Hades, the place of the dead. Some translations render Hades as "hell," but Hades itself seems to be neutral, separated into two places for the saved and unsaved. This is what I get from Luke 16:19-31.
At the Second Coming, the bodies of the dead are raised (suggesting the spirits are reunited with their bodies) and then go to heaven or hell (John 5:28-29). This is how I've understood it, anyway.
Thanks, Jeshu.Revelation 21:1-7
"Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children."
Isn't that what they mean by " Rest in peace?" Aren't they resting until judgement Day? When Lazarus died Jesus said he was " sleeping".At funerals they say “She’s in a better place now”. But what I find in the Bible is that Jesus is coming back to judge the living and the Dead. And as far as I know, we’re all still waiting, so judgment day has yet to occur. So where’s Grandma?
(Please no responses regarding Grandma’s judgment. That’s not the intent of the question. For the sake of this post, let’s assume Grandma has met the requirements to get into heaven)
At funerals they say “She’s in a better place now”. But what I find in the Bible is that Jesus is coming back to judge the living and the Dead. And as far as I know, we’re all still waiting, so judgment day has yet to occur. So where’s Grandma?
(Please no responses regarding Grandma’s judgment. That’s not the intent of the question. For the sake of this post, let’s assume Grandma has met the requirements to get into heaven)
At funerals they say “She’s in a better place now”. But what I find in the Bible is that Jesus is coming back to judge the living and the Dead. And as far as I know, we’re all still waiting, so judgment day has yet to occur. So where’s Grandma?
(Please no responses regarding Grandma’s judgment. That’s not the intent of the question. For the sake of this post, let’s assume Grandma has met the requirements to get into heaven)
Study the end of Luke 16 about Lazarus and the rich man. Jesus showed that Paradise has two sides, one where the saints go, and the other side is hell where the wicked go. There is a great-gulf fixed border between the two sides so neither can go to the side of the other.
When the malefactor who believed asked Lord Jesus to remember him, Jesus told him that day he would be with Him in Paradise. So that's where we go at flesh death.
Luke 16:23 says he was in Hades. I understand Hades to be the place where dead spirits go. In Revelation 20:14, Death and Hades are cast into "the lake of fire." Assuming we agree that the lake of fire is hell, would this prove that hell and Hades are different, since Hades is spoken of as being cast into the lake of fire rather than being the lake of fire?thanks for the reply, Kilk1.
Ok. But i gotta say, in reading the passage you offer from Luke, it seems like the rich man is in Hell to me. That's just my take, though. No right or wrong answer on this one.
...So my assumption is that by Hades you mean Hell. Only people not worthy of Heaven are sent there. Ok, I can respect your take, but I'm wondering what's to judge if the people in Hades can't get into heaven?
Historically the church has taught that, whatever our destinies, they're determined the moment we die- and we enter that place or state at that moment. This is sometimes called the "particular judgment". There is also said to be a final judgment at the end of time, which is taught thusly by a teaching I'm familiar with:At funerals they say “She’s in a better place now”. But what I find in the Bible is that Jesus is coming back to judge the living and the Dead. And as far as I know, we’re all still waiting, so judgment day has yet to occur. So where’s Grandma?
(Please no responses regarding Grandma’s judgment. That’s not the intent of the question. For the sake of this post, let’s assume Grandma has met the requirements to get into heaven)
This is a fascinating story, Bob. Careful what you wish for, I suppose, but I'd like to experience something like this. Supernatural, I guess would be the word. Ironically, I just posted a response saying that Jesus is the only one who appeared after death, but as you said, there are others that have had this type of experience.
I've been considering the idea that heaven and hell is right here on earth.
So, in your belief, how would one know if they've obtained Heaven?
I'd also like to tentatively ask if you've already entered heaven yourself, but I understand this is personal, so I understand if you want to ignore this particular question.
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