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Is Grandma in Heaven?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Hanging by a Thread, Feb 2, 2021.

  1. Hanging by a Thread

    Hanging by a Thread Member

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    At funerals they say “She’s in a better place now”. But what I find in the Bible is that Jesus is coming back to judge the living and the Dead. And as far as I know, we’re all still waiting, so judgment day has yet to occur. So where’s Grandma?

    (Please no responses regarding Grandma’s judgment. That’s not the intent of the question. For the sake of this post, let’s assume Grandma has met the requirements to get into heaven)
     
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  2. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    There are arguments for both; no one on this side of Heaven can really know for sure.

    Paul said that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord [2 Corinthians 5:8],
    and he spoke of those who now sleep [1 Thessalonians 4:13-16] referring to the dead in Christ.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2021
  3. returntosender

    returntosender EL ROI Supporter

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    And yet the bible says "absent from the body, present with the Lord"
     
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  4. Jeshu

    Jeshu Bought by His Blood Supporter

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    Jesus said those who believe in Him have past over from death to life. So if your grand mother had her life in Jesus then she is still going strong and will forever.

    John 5:23 "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."
     
  5. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Time means nothing in heaven. A thousand years is like a day and a day like a thousand years (2 Peter 3:8) God knows everything so judgement, in that sense, has already happened.

    The story of the rich man and Lazarus indicates that judgement is immediate following death. Others may think differently.
     
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  6. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    While Scripture doesn't talk a lot about it, it very much does speak of our time between death and resurrection as being with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8).

    It's good to recognize that the principle focus of Scripture--and indeed, of the entire historical teaching and confession of the Christian Church since the beginning--is that there is the future bodily resurrection of the dead and life everlasting in the Age to Come, with the renewal of all creation; it isn't as though between death and resurrection there is simply some kind of non-existence. We very much do continue to exist between death and resurrection. In the Apocalypse of St. John he writes about seeing the souls of the martyrs before God in heaven, when Jesus speaks about Gehenna and Paradise He is talking about the abodes of the dead in Hades/She'ol. So when He says to the thief, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise" He is telling the thief that he will be counted among the righteous, and found in the place of the righteous dead.

    So while Scripture doesn't have a lot to say about the "afterlife", it's not as though Scripture has nothing to say. It's just that it's not all that important in the larger picture. Yes, between death and resurrection we will be with the Lord. Think of it as a foretaste of what is to come.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
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  7. Hanging by a Thread

    Hanging by a Thread Member

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    thanks for the reply, Sabertooth.
    Yep, no one knows for sure what happens after we die until we die. Yet, "what happens after we die" is one of, if not the only, foundation for Christianity. Seems as though the Bible would have offered more clarity on this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2021
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  8. Hanging by a Thread

    Hanging by a Thread Member

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    thanks for the reply, alllives.
    yeah, it says that. But in its context doesn't really address where grandma is at this moment.
     
  9. Hanging by a Thread

    Hanging by a Thread Member

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    thanks for the reply, Jeshu.
    Yeah, I've already established grandma's worthiness in my initial post. So she's going to heaven eventually. I'm just wondering if we can say she's in a better place now (meaning heaven), or is she waiting on judgment day? And if she's waiting, where is she waiting?
     
  10. Jeshu

    Jeshu Bought by His Blood Supporter

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    Eternal life doesn't start after we die it begins when we accept Christ as our Lord and Saviour over our life. Like Jesus says We cross over from death to life.

    So yes if your grand mother believed in Jesus she is with Jesus right now.

    Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
     
  11. Hanging by a Thread

    Hanging by a Thread Member

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    Thanks for the reply, Aussie.
    Ok, so you think based on the story of Lazarus that Heaven or Hell is immediate. I won't argue with that because I'm a bit confused on what the correct answer would be. Others may think differently because the Bible seems to indicate Judgment for entry into heaven will occur when Jesus returns. And as far as Grandma is concerned, I don't think we need to worry about her having to wait around if that's the case. Because, yeah, time means nothing in heaven- a thousand years is a small percentage of eternity. But here on earth, a day is not like a thousand years. A day is like a day. So I'm wondering if today it's accurate to say Grandma is in heaven now, maybe even looking down upon us, maybe even interceding on our behalf. It seems these are some of the things we cling to as we greive, but is this substantiated?
     
  12. Hanging by a Thread

    Hanging by a Thread Member

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    Thanks for the reply ViaCrusis.
    So... some type of pergatory then? And I'm using the term pergatory loosely here. I'm not entirely sure of the definition and I'm afraid I might have seen somewhere that pergatory involves some type of suffering. That's not what I'm suggesting, but rather some type of place in waiting. Heh-heh, I dunno, maybe if that's the case there could be spirits among us.
     
  13. Hanging by a Thread

    Hanging by a Thread Member

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    Ok. And I'm not disagreeing. I'm just wondering about how this would fit in with Jesus coming back to Judge the living and the dead, presumably for admission to heaven. And while eternal life may start before we die as you say, heaven doesn't start before we die. At least I hope not. I'm kinda expecting something better than this (LOL). If I make the cut, that is (another LOL).
     
  14. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

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    MOD HAT ON

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    MOD HAT OFF
     
  15. Jeshu

    Jeshu Bought by His Blood Supporter

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    Heaven is bliss but in part we are already part of this bliss. Receiving God's grace is bliss. The joy of His salvation is bliss. As we know thankfulness praises God continually.

    So i think in small Heaven begins on this earth. Like Jesus says there is no judgement for those who are in Christ for then we have already died to our sin and live in newness. So if your grand mother loved Jesus and let Him shape her life then she is celebrating eternity with Him right now.

    So i understand faith in Jesus translates to an ever increasing eternal blissfulness within the heart of the believer that ultimately arrives in Heaven when the flesh can't hold it back any longer.

    What is sown perishable will be reaped eternally that is the promise we have from Jesus.

    1 Corinthians 15:54-57
    "When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.


    Where, O death, is your victory?
    Where, O death, is your sting?



    The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    "
     
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  16. Bob Crowley

    Bob Crowley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm probably being a bit blunt, and somewhat less empathetic than the OP would wish, but the "particular" (personal) judgement takes place immediately after death.

    I don't know where the OP's grandmother is now, but spiritually she's still alive, and (speaking as a Catholic) in one of three places - heaven, hell (hopefully not - I'm assuming she was a Christian or at least lived what might be called a Christian life) or purgatory (which I believe exists). Anyone in Purgatory gets to heaven eventually - it's a place of spiritual refinement, since nobody gets into heaven unless they're literally perfect.

    The Catholic Catechism has these things to say about judgement.

    So the particular judgement takes place immediately after death. The Last Judgement, which we will all attend at the same time, will be a stupendous event in which everybody will somehow see "to its furthest consequences the good each person has done or failed to do during his earthly life."
     
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  17. Hanging by a Thread

    Hanging by a Thread Member

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    Oh, Ok. Thanks Sabertooth. I'm not gonna review every SOP on this site so can you tell me if my post or status on this site will be compromised when the Mods come swooping in to move my content? If not, I'd have no problem with them moving my thread to any category they feel is appropriate.
     
  18. mlepfitjw

    mlepfitjw May you be blessed!

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    Was he coming back for us? Or was he coming back for that generation then? If you read 1 thess or second thess it seems like they were encouraged to be waiting then. For his return so I believe Jesus is with us now and there is no more waiting.

    The Bible talks about inheriting glory of Christ, also a spiritual inhabitation (mansion) body after this life in 1 Corinthians 15.

    Granda met the requirements and was a believer, she receives her spiritual glorifyied body that was by being joint heir with Christ as a daughter of God, in some cases a babe in Christ, at her death going onward to God into the new heavenly Jerusalem. Those without go unto the outside of the heavenly Jerusalem.

    This is seen at the end of revelation.

    I am always capable to be wrong and that this teaching sounds utterly ridiculous but it is what I believe would happen to grandma according to the Bible and what has been taught.
     
  19. Hanging by a Thread

    Hanging by a Thread Member

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    Thanks for the response, Bob. I'm new so I don't know for sure, but I take it I'm the OP (original poster?). I don't see anything blunt or lacking in empathy, btw. I'm Catholic, but not a good enough Catholic to know the Catechism so well. The issue is clearly addressed and informative so thanks for pointing it out. I'm also not very smart, so one read won't be enough for me, I'll have to go back and read the portion of the catechism more slowly. But first glance (and your last sentence) tells me there are two judgments and that there is, in fact, a purgatory. Still not clear on what the purpose of the last judgment would be if souls go immediately to heaven or hell. Makes sense for the souls in purgatory, though, as they apparently are waiting to make their way into heaven (unless there's a specified time period for purification). I've become a bit wary of Catholocism, though, as it seems there have been some liberties taken in translating the Bible. The Bible doesn't directly refer to a purgatory for example. The word and concept is apparently created by Catholic officials. But they do site scripture as their foundation/reference, so fair enough I guess.
     
  20. Hanging by a Thread

    Hanging by a Thread Member

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    thanks for the reply, Agallagher.
    forgive me, but I'm not sure I'm completely understanding your post (I'm not all that smart, so it sometimes takes a while to get through to me).
    Here's what I'm gathering from your post:
    1)That the second coming has already occured. I don't find that to be all that ridiculous (not saying that's what I believe,but I don't rule it out). In fact, I think there're several sections of the Bible that would imply that Jesus or God's instructions were meant only for the current generation being addressed. There's a quote from Jesus that comes to mind, but I don't have it front of me. Something along the lines of "this generation will not pass before all these things take place".
    2) That grandma, having met the requirements is already in Heaven.
    3) I don't know what is meant by "outside of the heavenly Jerusalem" but my guess is that this is hell.
    4) My interpretation of your post could be completely off the mark.
     
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