Is God still creating today?

[LightSeaker]

This issue just came to me when I give reply in another thread. I think this is a significant one.

I have heard people of TE gave a yes answer to this question with an elaborated argument. But I was not convinced. TE needs to say yes because in addition to E, they need the T part too. This question spells one of their big burden. But this is, in fact, a side point of this question.

The main question is: If God still creates and continuously creates today, do we have an example of it?

Or, you don't think God creates anymore (since when?)

My answer is...Yes, of course God continuously creates. All we need for proof is look at His own Creation to see the Truth that God continuously creates. Creating is part of God's essence...He always creates and always will create. He can not do otherwise.

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[juvenissun]

My answer is...Yes, of course God continuously creates. All we need for proof is look at His own Creation to see the Truth that God continuously creates. Creating is part of God's essence...He always creates and always will create. He can not do otherwise.

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What are examples of His daily creations that we can see?

 

[LightSeaker]

What are examples of His daily creations that we can see?

Take a look at everything of nature that you see outside the window.

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[juvenissun]

Take a look at everything of nature that you see outside the window.

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Why would God want to create continuously rather than just creates once and let everything maintained on themselves?

 

[Mallon]

Why would God want to create continuously rather than just creates once and let everything maintained on themselves?

Because the Bible doesn't teach deism.

 

[Yab Yum]

The final creation of God is the flawless and forgiven Bride of Christ, Ekklesia, the girl he fell madly in love with.

Through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him.
Ephesians 3:10-12.

 

[Yab Yum]

Ekklesia is God's final masterpiece.

 

[metherion]

Why would God want to create continuously rather than just creates once and let everything maintained on themselves

1. We can't know the mind of God, because His ways are so far above our ways even if He explained them I doubt we could comprehend.

2. If He was the 'once and then done' type deity, why would He:
a. Choose the Jews as His chosen people?
b. Keep constantly appearing to, making prophets out of, lead into battle, bless, curse, smite the foes of, the Jews? If we use your line of logic, just poof them into the promised land as its lords with all people subject to them as slaves and be done.
c. Send His only begotten Son to save all people when He could just 'poof' free will or sinful desires out of the human condition and we'd just never sin?
d. Inspire men to write the Bible?

3. We know from the Bible that God considers His creation good (why it is repeated so often in Genesis 1) and that good things please God (various points throughout the Bible). So if it pleases Him why WOULDN"T He keep doing it?

Metherion

 

[Assyrian]

Why would God want to create continuously rather than just creates once and let everything maintained on themselves?

Because he is a creator?

 

[icamewithasword]

This issue just came to me when I give reply in another thread. I think this is a significant one.

I have heard people of TE gave a yes answer to this question with an elaborated argument. But I was not convinced. TE needs to say yes because in addition to E, they need the T part too. This question spells one of their big burden. But this is, in fact, a side point of this question.

The main question is: If God still creates and continuously creates today, do we have an example of it?

Or, you don't think God creates anymore (since when?)

God looked at His creation and said it was 'very good'; then rested.....

He finished His creation. He created all things in His time, and before our time, and outside our time.
To say God still creates today means His creation was not finished, and He is constrained to our time.

God knew me before my creation in the womb. The same as He knew you, and your great-grandchildren. He is not still creating, as His creation is finished. The new heaven and new earth have been created, in His time; we don't know of them yet because our time and His time are not the same thing.

Scripture says we are sustained by God and His Word, but I know of no place where Scripture supports a continuing creation 'work' by God (as if He's not done yet).

 

[juvenissun]

God looked at His creation and said it was 'very good'; then rested.....

He finished His creation. He created all things in His time, and before our time, and outside our time.
To say God still creates today means His creation was not finished, and He is constrained to our time.

God knew me before my creation in the womb. The same as He knew you, and your great-grandchildren. He is not still creating, as His creation is finished. The new heaven and new earth have been created, in His time; we don't know of them yet because our time and His time are not the same thing.

Scripture says we are sustained by God and His Word, but I know of no place where Scripture supports a continuing creation 'work' by God (as if He's not done yet).

I am gladly in agree with you.

But, the main point of my OP is that I still think each and everyone of human are created. Out spirits do not exist before.

 

[juvenissun]

Because he is a creator?

A continuous and ceaseless creation does not make sense to me.

Creation is a wonderful action. It must NOT happen on everything repeatedly all the time.

Unless you do think that God is a 24-hrs/day creating machine, then you will face a problem: what is His new creation and what is His earlier creation? Then, what is your criteria of telling the difference.

By the way, can you see it is a big big problem for the TE doctrine?

 

[Mallon]

TEs aren't the ones telling God what He can and can't do, juvie. You are. That seems more of a problem to me. That and the fact that your position doesn't align with Scripture as we've already shown.

 

[Assyrian]

A continuous and ceaseless creation does not make sense to me.

But you are not God are you? And God is not restricted by Creationist doctrine telling him what makes sense or not.

Creation is a wonderful action. It must NOT happen on everything repeatedly all the time.

Technically the 'on everything all the time' bit is referred to as 'upholding' Heb 1:3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. And a lot of the time the bible talks of forming or making as well as creating, but these may just be synonyms or poetic parallelisms. But anyway, the bible's multiple references to God continuous work of creation cares little for your view that it mustn't happen or that it would somehow take from how wonderful all his works of creation are.

Unless you do think that God is a 24-hrs/day creating machine,

John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I am working."

then you will face a problem: what is His new creation and what is His earlier creation? Then, what is your criteria of telling the difference.

Being able to walk through closed doors.

1Co 15:46 But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual.
47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.
48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.
49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.

Our new creation now is spiritual not physical, and after the resurrection our bodies will become new creations too, they will be transformed and be like Jesus' resurrection body.

By the way, can you see it is a big big problem for the TE doctrine?

That the description of creation in the bible fits TE and contradicts the Creationist view of Creation? No I don't see the problem.

 

[Assyrian]

God looked at His creation and said it was 'very good'; then rested.....

How long?

24 hours? If that is the case God could simply have taken the day off and then got back to work. On the other hand Jesus said his father never stopped work, John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I am working."

Or as the writer of Hebrew tells us, is God's rest still continuing outside our present day ('as long as it is called 'Today' Heb 3&4) and we have to enter into God's rest. In which case you can have God continuing his creation in out time while his rest is continuing outside time. And God's sabbath rest in Genesis becomes a picture of the Gospel and the Sabbath command as Paul says in Colossians a shadow of the reality in Christ.

He finished His creation. He created all things in His time, and before our time, and outside our time.

So the six day are outside time? I have come across that interpretation before, 'days of proclamation'. But it leaves plenty of room for the creation outside time to break into time in the Big Bang and slowly work themselves out over 13.7 billion years.

To say God still creates today means His creation was not finished, and He is constrained to our time.

Not if God is outside time.

God knew me before my creation in the womb. The same as He knew you, and your great-grandchildren.

Did he know a preexisting spirit because he created it in the beginning, did he foreknow a spirit yet to be created, or did he know us because he is outside time and knows the end from the beginning?

He is not still creating, as His creation is finished.

You did read all the verses that talk of God still creating didn't you?

The new heaven and new earth have been created, in His time; we don't know of them yet because our time and His time are not the same thing.

Taking creation outside our time still allows it to be manifest in our time, after all it is called the new creation.

Scripture says we are sustained by God and His Word, but I know of no place where Scripture supports a continuing creation 'work' by God (as if He's not done yet).

You didn't read those verses did you?

 

[ebia]

Is God still creating today

Surely the answer has to be 'yes'; anything less isn't Judeo/Christianity it's deism.

Maybe that's why you find a problem in the TE position - it's not the E that you have a problem with but the T.

 

[juvenissun]

But you are not God are you? And God is not restricted by Creationist doctrine telling him what makes sense or not.

Technically the 'on everything all the time' bit is referred to as 'upholding' Heb 1:3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. And a lot of the time the bible talks of forming or making as well as creating, but these may just be synonyms or poetic parallelisms. But anyway, the bible's multiple references to God continuous work of creation cares little for your view that it mustn't happen or that it would somehow take from how wonderful all his works of creation are.

John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I am working."

Being able to walk through closed doors.

1Co 15:46 But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual.
47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.
48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.
49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.

Our new creation now is spiritual not physical, and after the resurrection our bodies will become new creations too, they will be transformed and be like Jesus' resurrection body.

That the description of creation in the bible fits TE and contradicts the Creationist view of Creation? No I don't see the problem.

Upholding is not an act of creation.

OK, very good, the current creation is spiritual, not physical. I agree.
The domain of spiritual is wide, a few examples may be helpful.

Is my happiness His creation? How about my sorrow?
If the creation is on a higher level which includes happiness, sorrow, etc. etc., then it would be a wonderful creation. To me, it simply means: a spiritual person.

Any other example of spiritual creation?

 

[juvenissun]

Surely the answer has to be 'yes'; anything less isn't Judeo/Christianity it's deism.

Maybe that's why you find a problem in the TE position - it's not the E that you have a problem with but the T.

I am trying to understand WHAT does He create today. Can you give me an example?

If the stock market is going to crash the next Thursday, Would it be a creation He might do? If so, why do you call it a "creation"?

 

[ebia]

I am trying to understand WHAT does He create today. Can you give me an example?

If the stock market is going to crash the next Thursday, Would it be a creation He might do? If so, why do you call it a "creation"?

I would say everything that is different between today and yesterday.

Perhaps you have too narrow a view of creation- what do you think creation (verb) is?

 

[Assyrian]

Upholding is not an act of creation.

That is why I distinguished between them.

OK, very good, the current creation is spiritual, not physical. I agree.

No, what the bible calls the new creation is spiritual, you are confusing the continuation of the original creation with 'new creation'. New creation means not just recently created, but a whole new mode of existence. Every child born is a creation of God, but it is only when they are born again that they begin being transformed into what the bible calls a new creation.

The domain of spiritual is wide, a few examples may be helpful.

New birth, new heart, resurrection bodies, new heavens, new earth... Quite different from the ongoing creation of new blacksmiths, nations, puppies, plants, darkness, winds...

Is my happiness His creation? How about my sorrow?

Probably not, but you may be happy at the birth of a newly created puppy.

If the creation is on a higher level which includes happiness, sorrow, etc. etc., then it would be a wonderful creation. To me, it simply means: a spiritual person.

For a Christian being spiritual person means being a new creation. 2Cor 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. But that is the new creation again.

Any other example of spiritual creation?

Why? You need to deal with all the examples of the first creation still going on.