Is forgiveness fair to the victim

[RDKirk]

This is a good response to what might be your particular viewpoint, but it appears this thread devolved fairly quickly into discussing the importance of you forgiving others, rather than centering specifically on the question of should the forgiven need to feel guilty, make restitutions, have obligations to the victim, etc.

Those are all activities God has declared to be within His purview alone, as far as Christians are concerned.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Those are all activities God has declared to be within His purview alone, as far as Christians are concerned.

Yes, specifically to the individual. But the general teaching was to show genuine repentance, and take whatever steps necessary towards true and total reconciliation with the offended, based on the prime importance in scripture of operating in love towards one another.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Abusers would just love an excuse to obligate us to forgive them... It's the Abuser’s Dream Gig- to be able to commit one evil deed after another with impunity, and then pervert the Word of God by claiming that others have to repeatedly and unconditionally forgive her... BE NOT DECEIVED; GOD IS NOT MOCKED: FOR WHATSOEVER A MAN SOWETH, THAT SHALL HE ALSO REAP….Galatians 6:7.

Also another strong response, based on actual scripture and not merely hearsay.

 

[Hidden In Him]

...judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Also scripture (James 2:13).

 

[FireDragon76]

Somebody with that much anger that they cannot forgive should not be looking to theology to fix their problems, they need to seek a therapist. Jesus own words are quite clear on the duty to forgive. I don't expect people to be able to forgive (as I am Augustinian on the subject of sin), but I don't expect people to celebrate holding grudges and resentments, as it is sub-Christian behavior.

 

[Hidden In Him]

OK, it looks like I am caught up, although I was skimming some.

In short, Zoii, I feel no leading or compulsion to even address the issue of the offended being called to forgive. Several of the responses you received in regard to this were good, but it was not the question you asked.

Rest assured that any "Christian" teaching that suggests we are not called to conform ourselves to the character of Christ Himself is entirely erroneous, as I believe GregJ stated. One of the things that especially grieves my heart about modern Christianity is that it so badly misrepresents God to people of other faiths, especially Muslims, who see us a promulgating filth and inappropriate contentography to the world in the name of "forgiveness."

I hope you will understand that the Devil is using many today to completely misrepresent what true Christianity is, what the true heart of God is, and what He still expects of His people.

I hope you will consider looking at Him again, knowing it is not He who excuses sin so flippantly, but merely wicked, sinful and blind men who will stand accountable before God for the falsehoods they teach.

God Bless, and thank you for your wonderful question!

 

[RDKirk]

Somebody with that much anger that they cannot forgive should not be looking to theology to fix their problems, they need to seek a therapist. Jesus own words are quite clear on the duty to forgive. I don't expect people to be able to forgive (as I am Augustinian on the subject of sin), but I do expect people to not celebrate holding grudges, as it is sub-Christian behavior.

...to not celebrate holding grudges, as it is sub-Christian behavior

 

[FireDragon76]

...to not celebrate holding grudges, as it is sub-Christian behavior

Thanks for pointing out that typo.

Forgiveness has always been potentially scandalous. It's not something about which Christians should be unduly apologetic. The Gospel is for sinners, after all.

 

[Dave-W]

it appears this thread devolved fairly quickly into discussing the importance of you forgiving others, rather than centering specifically on the question of should the forgiven need to feel guilty, make restitutions, have obligations to the victim, etc.

Those are 2 completely separate issues. Forgiveness is for the "victim" to be free and able to move on into healing. It has nothing to do with the "perpetrator."

For that person (the perpetrator) to be free from what they have done, they need to repent before God, face the legal system honestly and openly, and offer restitution to the victim. (if possible)

Those are separate issues.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Those are 2 completely separate issues. Forgiveness is for the "victim" to be free and able to move on into healing. It has nothing to do with the "perpetrator."

For that person (the perpetrator) to be free from what they have done, they need to repent before God, face the legal system honestly and openly, and offer restitution to the victim. (if possible)

Those are separate issues.

Agreed.

 

[Paidiske]

Somebody with that much anger that they cannot forgive should not be looking to theology to fix their problems, they need to seek a therapist.

This is a side issue, but in my experience, theology - or rather, an encounter with the living God - will be effective in dealing with issues where therapy didn't even begin to touch the sides.

 

[Dave-W]

an encounter with the living God - will be effective in dealing with issues where therapy didn't even begin to touch the sides.

Indeed. In fact, I question whether someone who has been hurt and hanging onto that for years has really had much time spent in the manifest presence of Lord.

 

[Paidiske]

Not fair, Dave. Some wounds run deep and take time to heal; indeed some may never in this life. Blaming the person so wounded is not okay.

 

[Dave-W]

Not fair, Dave. Some wounds run deep and take time to heal; indeed some may never in this life. Blaming the person so wounded is not okay.

I get that. But I am not sure you get what I was saying.

Being in God's MANIFEST presence is so healing, so encouraging, so amazing that experiencing it on a regular basis WILL heal even the deepest wounds. Yes it may take years. And in another sense, none of us will be COMPLETELY healed of everything going thru this fallen sinful world until we get to the other side.

But it will be enough to follow HIM and walk in obedience; and to enjoy the blessings and benefits HE has given us in this life.

 

[Paidiske]

It's not always like that, though... or not always immediately.

I had an experience once where I did an Ignatian-style meditation. It was truly an encounter with God... and it recovered some dissociated (repressed) memories of trauma. I would say after that encounter it took a good three years to get back to "functional" (as opposed to severely impaired by PTSD) and I am still, in some ways, recovering nine years on.

What I'm saying is that the process of healing may not be straightforward; it may be like the bone which needs to be broken again before it can be reset; it may leave us, in the short-to-medium term, worse off than before the process began.

And to say to someone who may be in the middle of that kind of journey, someone who is struggling and suffering, that they're not blessed enough because they don't spend enough time with God - which is how your last couple of posts came across - is downright cruel.

 

[Dave-W]

In another folder here (marriage I think) I was answering a question about wives wanting to be pursued. A guy thought it was selfish and immature.

I had to remind the person that as husbands we are instructed to love our wives as Christ loves the Church, and that HE was willing to leave the 99 to pursue and bring back the one.

We do that no matter how hurt we are, or they are. We do it because HE gives us grace to do it. Even if, like Israel in the OT, they keep going off astray, time after time.

 

[Paidiske]

I don't see how that's relevant to this discussion...?

 

[Dave-W]

What I'm saying is that the process of healing may not be straightforward; it may be like the bone which needs to be broken again before it can be reset; it may leave us, in the short-to-medium term, worse off than before the process began.

Yes - I understand that.

And to say to someone who may be in the middle of that kind of journey, someone who is struggling and suffering, that they're not blessed enough because they don't spend enough time with God - which is how your last couple of posts came across - is downright cruel.

I am sorry it came across that way. It was not my intent to be harsh.

In those cases it is helpful for all to understand the process that the person is going thru and co-operate with it. it WILL speed the healing.

 

[Dave-W]

I don't see how that's relevant to this discussion...?

Because in that other thread, the OP was truly wounded from his wife's behavior. So I was encouraging him to seek God and be what his wife needed from him DESPITE how he felt about it. God's grace is there if we tap into it.

 

[Paidiske]

It's my experience that in Christian communities, trauma is, on the whole, extremely poorly understood.