Is forgiveness fair to the victim

[Dave-W]

Biblically speaking, NO ONE gets forgiven without changing his ways and turning to God and godliness.

Luke 23:34
But Jesus was saying, “Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing.” And they cast lots, dividing up His garments among themselves.​

Did the Roman soldiers who nailed our Lord to the cross change their ways and turn to the God of the bible? No.

Did they get forgiven, or did the Lord waste his breath?
Of course they were forgiven.

 

[Dave-W]

Read my post above. That's not true. Jesus preaches LAW to those who are law stricken and GRACE to those who accept that He has fulfilled the law on their behalf. The requirement for true forgiveness, both from God and man, is to REPENT!

When you think about it, God is both fair and unfair at the same time.

Not a good view point, which leads to a confused understanding.

Jesus (as a man) was a male Jew born under the Law, (Gal 4.4) Had He spoken anything against or different than the Law, it would have been a sin which would have disqualified Him from being our sacrifice.

 

[FireDragon76]

Oh thats great.... the evil one gets free to leave it all behind with Gods blessing while the victim is despised by god for not forgiving the evil person and feeling bitter

That's not how we really view it at all. Clinging to bitterness is like drinking poison and hoping somebody else dies. Jesus invites us into a different way of living that is easier than feeling obliged to hold on to that sort of pain.

God forgives us in a way that does not condone our sins. God does not bless sin, and never will, in fact he hates all sin.

People that have been hurt by others are not hated by God for being victims, but they are invited into a different way of life illumined through the suffering of God himself on the Cross.

 

[Dave-W]

That's not how we really view it at all. Clinging to bitterness is like drinking poison and hoping somebody else dies. Jesus invites us into a different way of living that is easier than feeling obliged to hold on to that sort of pain.

God forgives us in a way that does not condone our sins. God does not bless sin, and never will, in fact he hates all sin.

People that have been hurt by others are not hated by God for being victims, but they are invited into a different way of life illumined through the suffering of God himself on the Cross.

Indeed. Unforgiveness is a prison. It also puts us between God and the perpetrator which limits how God can deal with him/her.

By forgiving, we release ourselves from prison; which in turn opens us up to receive healing; and it gets us out of the way of God's dealings with the perp.

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[FireDragon76]

Indeed. Unforgiveness is a prison. It also puts us between God and the perpetrator which limits how God can deal with him/her.

By forgiving, we release ourselves from prison; which in turn opens us up to receive healing; and it gets us out of the way of God's dealings with the perp.

I know my own religious tradition is very realistic about how difficult forgiveness can be, especially for victims of abuse or oppression. But it's still an ideal we value, because after all God himself is in the business of forgiving.

 

[marineimaging]

There is something to be said for the Buddhist concept of Karma. It may not be Christian but I pray its true. I find it really hard to reconcile that someone can commit a heinous crime, leave the victim to suffer for years into their life if not their whole life…along with the victims family and close friends. Yet all the perpetrator has to do is say Im sorry God.


Great!!! that evil person is forgiven for all they have done. So I have some questions. If you’re forgiven does that mean you don’t need to feel guilty? If you’re forgiven does that alleviate any obligations to your victim? And what if its true…while the perpetrator is forgiven the victim isn’t alleviated of their suffering. For so many it’s a life sentence. Where is the fairness in that?


Buddhists will say that if your evil then evil will befall you and if you’re a good person then good will come your way. I can see practical elements to this quite easily and it fits with me.

We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. That said,
1. You are not talking about justice. You are talking about revenge. Vengeance belongs to God, not us. Only God decides, owns, and owes vengeance.
2. Fairness to the victim can only be achieved by return of the deceased or the property without the victim suffering in any way, any form, or any fashion for any length of time. And THAT is impossible. Otherwise, the entity that is the decider of Justice would demand eternal payment and that would deny the gift God gave us in the form of Jesus as the lamb. When He said, "It is finished." he meant it. Otherwise according to the laws of physics and the ideas of Buddah and others, Jesus could never leave the cross, never be buried, and never be resurrected because he would be in constant repayment of our sins.
3. Karma is not Christian and it is the opposite of what Jesus teaches us. We can't have Jesus redeeming us and then we start getting excited over seeing revenge. It does not work that way. Besides, how do you know what is just? How was Karma "created". It is not of God, not taught by Jesus, the opposite of what Paul and the gospels teach, therefore it must be from one that is NOT God, not Jesus, and NOT of the disciples and prophets. Hummm, I wonder who that is?
4. We do not have the right to decide what is fair. Only our God can do that and when we put our faith in Him it is He and He alone who will insure our peace of mind.

 

[FireDragon76]

The parable of the Workmen in the Vineyard or the parable of the Prodigal Son might be illuminating here.

 

[Paidiske]

It might be worth noting that the OP is no longer able to respond since this forum became Christian-only.

 

[marineimaging]

Romans 12 offers insight in this manner. We can't do two things that oppose each other and call both holy. So, let's take just a few verses;

14 - Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.
17 - Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
19 - Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 - Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 - Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Nothing there about Karma. In fact, just the opposite, but with this caveat - Karma implies that there is an ethereal force out there that steers revenge toward those who do wrong. If that ethereal force doing this steering in the name of revenge, then it is not of God because it does not lead the lost person to salvation. Instead it supports the notion that everything that happens is chance. Evolution is the rule and life is by chance. Well, in our book then there is only one entity that can be at the bottom of Karma. Satan. But then, why would Satan work to defeat himself? Anyway, regardless of what you think it is, the scripture is what we live by and those words above are pretty clear. Not easy to live by, but clear enough to understand.

 

[Dave-W]

It might be worth noting that the OP is no longer able to respond since this forum became Christian-only.

Perhaps it should be moved to a place where she CAN respond.

I have noticed that happening on occasion. I came across a thread a few weeks ago in the men's only folder that was started by a woman. It got moved to the mens section and must have just disappeared to her.

 

[marineimaging]

It might be worth noting that the OP is no longer able to respond since this forum became Christian-only.

I am sure if she can see it she can decipher that Karma is not being Christian. If she wants to give her life to Christ I would help her find what answers I know.