Is following the 10 commandments required for salvation?

[Major1]

The preceding verses in Romans 10:5-9 talk about what it means to confess Jesus as Lord, which in reference to Deuteronomy 30:11-14, so confessing Jesus as Lord means to be under his authority and obey his commands given in the Mosaic law. Believing in your heart that God has raised Jesus from the death is significant in that it is about Jesus giving himself to redeem us from all lawlessness, so if you believe that in your heart, then you will not return back to the lawlessness that you were redeemed from. It is through faith that we demonstrate that we trust God enough to obey His instructions for how to rightly live and it is by grace that we are being trained to follow those instructions (Titus 2:11-14). Our salvation is from sin and sin is defined as lawlessness (1 John 3:4), so our salvation is from lawlessness, and it is by grace through faith that we are saved from disobedience to the law and come into obedience to it.

I am not here to argue with anyone. I only state the Scriptures and let the Word of God speak to men as they are.
It is obvious that those who would believe that the law must be keep for us to be or stay saved have not fully considered all the ramifications of that kind of theology.

If you or anyone else would attain to eternal life by keeping the law, then keep the law. Just do it and live.

There is only one problem. Have you ever done it? Have you kept the whole law every day, every hour of your life without ever failing?

Consider the Word of God and not my thoughts or comments.

James 2:10 says...........
"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all."

Have all of you kept the law? 100%, every day, day in and day out.

Really??????

1 John 1:10 is calling you a liar...........
"If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us".

Rom. 3:10 confirms Psalms where we see that..........
"There is none righteous, not even one".

The facts say that the Bible is clear when it says that to be saved by keeping the law requires that a person keep the whole law perfectly, all the time. No exception is allowed. The law must be kept, all of it, without any omission, or failures, or exceptions, all of the time, twenty-four hours a day, all of your life. Have all of you done that??????

Only one person has ever kept the law perfectly. Jesus Christ the Son of God was without sin. He never personally experienced sin. His heavenly Father declared three times, "This is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased."

I would encourage all who are accepting this blending of law and grace to consider the ramifications of your arguments.

 

[Major1]

Would you like to explain that comment to me please?

This refers to the Apostles who were martyred , the disciples who were martyred,
and the ones who will be martyred.
YHWH has set or knows the time, each time, all the time,
and answers the prayers PROCLAIMED in the book of REVELATION
that when the last one to give their life , to be martyred as the others whose blood cries
out since the creation of the world,
YHWH will execute HIS VENGEANCE JUSTLY upon those responsible;
YHWH will immediately take action at the TIME HE HAS KNOWN SINCE
before creating the world.[/QUOTE]

But what does the Scriptures say???

The people you are talking about are the Jews who are left after the Rapture my friend. The Revelation is about the Jews NOT the church. There is NO church doctrine in the Revelation.

Those who are myrtered will be those who reject the mark of the beast and accept Christ and will be killed. The great majority will be Jews who have never heard the gospel today.

 

[Major1]

Let me ask you, why should we try to keep the commandments?

WHY NOT????

Throughout recorded history man has tried to build bridges to God by means of good works. All of his bridges have ended in failure.

"What must I do to inherit eternal life?" becomes "How in the world can I do it?" I can't. All that sinful man can do is come and cast himself upon the mercy of God. "God be merciful to me a sinner!"

 

[Major1]

If I am understanding the discussion it seems everyone agrees that someone who is saved will not continue to live in sin.

Does anyone not agree with that?

It seems people only have trouble with the word "required" because our works do not save us.

That would be my understanding.

Jim, the good news is that perfect obedience that God requires has been obtained by Jesus Christ. In that sense, we are saved by obedience.

Rom. 5:19.......
"Through the obedience of the One, the many will be made righteous".

You see, the obedience to the Law that God requires setting us right with Him is the work that God Himself accepted in Christ on the cross. We stand right before God because of the perfect obedience that Jesus performed for us, NOT WHAT WE DO FOR OUR SELVES.

We can not supplement it, improve on it, or add anything to it. The work of salvation was completely finished once and for all by Jesus on the cross. God receives all sinners who repent and put their trust in Christ to save them the same way. We are justified through faith, and not through any works or obedience on our part.

If that is not true then you will have to tear out Ephesians 2:8-9 from your Bible. Are you willing to do that?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

There have been several million MARTYRS;
gentiles murdered for their testimony of Y'SHUA(JESUS),
in the last 100 years alone.

 

[Jim Langston]

Okay, I said: someone who is saved will not continue to live in sin.

And you said:

That would be my understanding.

Therefore, let me ask, what of the person who continues to live in sin, can they consider themselves to be saved?

 

[Soyeong]

I am not here to argue with anyone. I only state the Scriptures and let the Word of God speak to men as they are.
It is obvious that those who would believe that the law must be keep for us to be or stay saved have not fully considered all the ramifications of that kind of theology.

If you or anyone else would attain to eternal life by keeping the law, then keep the law. Just do it and live.

There is only one problem. Have you ever done it? Have you kept the whole law every day, every hour of your life without ever failing?

Consider the Word of God and not my thoughts or comments.

James 2:10 says...........
"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all."

Have all of you kept the law? 100%, every day, day in and day out.

Really??????

1 John 1:10 is calling you a liar...........
"If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us".

Rom. 3:10 confirms Psalms where we see that..........
"There is none righteous, not even one".

The facts say that the Bible is clear when it says that to be saved by keeping the law requires that a person keep the whole law perfectly, all the time. No exception is allowed. The law must be kept, all of it, without any omission, or failures, or exceptions, all of the time, twenty-four hours a day, all of your life. Have all of you done that??????

Only one person has ever kept the law perfectly. Jesus Christ the Son of God was without sin. He never personally experienced sin. His heavenly Father declared three times, "This is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased."

The context of James 2:10 makes it clear that he was not saying that if you can't keep the law perfectly then you shouldn't bother keeping it at all, but rather he was encouraging them to obey the law more consistently without showing favoritism. We have all disobeyed the Mosaic law, so we have all sinned and fallen short glory of God, but all that entails is that we need to repent and turn back to obedience, not that we haven't entered eternal life. Throughout the Bible, the emphasis has been on the need to practice obedience and to repentance when we sin, not the need to be 100% obedient for some reason. We should be careful to obey all of God's commands because we have faith in Him about how we should live, and it is that faith that we are saved by, not the obedience.

I would encourage all who are accepting this blending of law and grace to consider the ramifications of your arguments.

God's grace is not opposed to His law because a house divided against itself cannot stand. Rather, John 1:16-17 says grace was added upon grace, so the grace of Christ was added to the grace of the law. According to Romans 1:5, we have received grace to bring about the obedience of faith. According to Titus 2:11-14, God's grace trains us to do what God has instructed to be godly, righteous, and good, and trains us to renounce doing what God has instructed is ungodly, sinful, and lawless. Strong's defines grace as "the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life" and when God's will is reflected in our lives, it takes the form of obedience to His commands. God's grace has never been opposed to His law, but rather it is what trains us to obey it through faith.

I am sorry to tell you this but Romans 10:9 is about how we get saved and not about authority or obeying God's commands. It is about the gospel and not the law.

A careful study of Deut. 30:11-14 tells us that it is prophetic and is speaking of a day when Israel will turn to God with all its heart and soul.

Consider Deut. 33:10 which says................
"They will teach Jacob thy judgments, and Israel thy law, they will put incense before thee and whole burnt sacrifices before thine alter".

God put out the law so that we can know we are sinners and so that we can know what God requires. That is the purpose of the law. Again I say to you all, the law was never given to save, it was given to reveal to man that he is a sinner.

Sin is fundamentally contrary to the will of God.

If you agree that the Mosaic law was given to reveal to us what sin is and you agree that we should not do what God has revealed to be sin, then you should agree that we should live in obedience to the Mosaic law. When Jesus was telling people to repent, he was telling them to repent of their disobedience to the Mosaic law, so repentance from our disobedience to it is a central part of the gospel message. In Romans 10:9, it talks about confessing Jesus as Lord, and a that means that you are confessing that Jesus has authority over you and that you will obey his commands, which were given in the Mosaic law, which is connected to that was talked about in the preceding verses. If you don't live in obedience to his commands, then what good is it to confess him to be Lord?

 

[Major1]

The context of James 2:10 makes it clear that he was not saying that if you can't keep the law perfectly then you shouldn't bother keeping it at all, but rather he was encouraging them to obey the law more consistently without showing favoritism. We have all disobeyed the Mosaic law, so we have all sinned and fallen short glory of God, but all that entails is that we need to repent and turn back to obedience, not that we haven't entered eternal life. Throughout the Bible, the emphasis has been on the need to practice obedience and to repentance when we sin, not the need to be 100% obedient for some reason. We should be careful to obey all of God's commands because we have faith in Him about how we should live, and it is that faith that we are saved by, not the obedience.



God's grace is not opposed to His law because a house divided against itself cannot stand. Rather, John 1:16-17 says grace was added upon grace, so the grace of Christ was added to the grace of the law. According to Romans 1:5, we have received grace to bring about the obedience of faith. According to Titus 2:11-14, God's grace trains us to do what God has instructed to be godly, righteous, and good, and trains us to renounce doing what God has instructed is ungodly, sinful, and lawless. Strong's defines grace as "the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life" and when God's will is reflected in our lives, it takes the form of obedience to His commands. God's grace has never been opposed to His law, but rather it is what trains us to obey it through faith.



If you agree that the Mosaic law was given to reveal to us what sin is and you agree that we should not do what God has revealed to be sin, then you should agree that we should live in obedience to the Mosaic law. When Jesus was telling people to repent, he was telling them to repent of their disobedience to the Mosaic law, so repentance from our disobedience to it is a central part of the gospel message. In Romans 10:9, it talks about confessing Jesus as Lord, and a that means that you are confessing that Jesus has authority over you and that you will obey his commands, which were given in the Mosaic law, which is connected to that was talked about in the preceding verses. If you don't live in obedience to his commands, then what good is it to confess him to be Lord?

Your whole thesis rests on this one statement..........
" We have all disobeyed the Mosaic law, so we have all sinned and fallen short glory of God, but all that entails is that we need to repent and turn back to obedience, not that we haven't entered eternal life".

God love but with all due respect that is absolutely Biblically incorrect.

I Acts 4:12 the apostle Peter declared it is through Jesus Christ who was crucified, whom God raised form the dead, in whom "there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved".

No mention there of returning to obedience.

We are not saved by random access faith, but faith that is focused on Christ. Even faith in God does not save us. It is faith in the death of Jesus Christ who died for our sins and rose form the dead. God gives eternal life to those who believe in Jesus Christ.

In his letter to the Philippian church Paul contrast his attempt through law keeping, which ended in failure, and "that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith" (3:9).

If anyone could have attainted a righteousness from keeping the law it was the Jewish rabbi Saul of Tarsus. Clearly, no one has ever received imputed righteousness by fulfilling the law. Imputed righteousness comes by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone.

The only righteousness that satisfies God's holy demands is imputed righteousness. It is "the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe." It is "being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus" seen in Philippians 3:24.

The very God whom we offended has Himself provided the Substitute for us. He has set forth His own Son as the propitiation for our sins. He has born our sin and our guilt. Jesus was at the same time the Sacrifice for our sins and the Great High Priest who offered Himself for the sinner.

Moreover, note carefully that this sacrifice of Christ does not automatically cover everyone. It only applies to the sinner who has faith in Christ.

 

[Major1]

There have been several million MARTYRS;
gentiles murdered for their testimony of Y'SHUA(JESUS),
in the last 100 years alone.

While that is true, that is not what you referred to.

 

[Major1]

Okay, I said: someone who is saved will not continue to live in sin.

And you said:


Therefore, let me ask, what of the person who continues to live in sin, can they consider themselves to be saved?

It does not matter what I say Jim. Only what the Bible says.

1 John 2:19........
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us."

Matthew 7:22-23..........
"On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of iniquity.’

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

While that is true, that is not what you referred to.

Yes. It is - there's more in and from Scripture about this. I only
explained a small portion for your question.

 

[Jim Langston]

It does not matter what I say Jim. Only what the Bible says.

1 John 2:19........
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us."

Matthew 7:22-23..........
"On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of iniquity.’

So, it seems you are saying that if we are saved we will not live in sin.

You also seem to be saying that if we live in sin we are not saved.

Which is the entire point of tbis whole tread.

Tell me, why do you say "keep" the commandments when the question is "follow" the commandments. As you correctly pointed out it is impossible for man to keep the commandments since we are sinners. The best we can do is follow them.

 

[Major1]

So, it seems you are saying that if we are saved we will not live in sin.

You also seem to be saying that if we live in sin we are not saved.

Which is the entire point of tbis whole tread.

Tell me, why do you say "keep" the commandments when the question is "follow" the commandments. As you correctly pointed out it is impossible for man to keep the commandments since we are sinners. The best we can do is follow them.

Dear Jim. This is about the 5th time you have posted such a response. Why is this so difficult for you my brother????

The Bible says that is we are saved we will not continue on in KNOWN SIN!

Hebrews 10:26.......
"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins".

Jim, because the believer is "born again" the new nature battles against the old to overcome it. He who is born again does not CONTINUALLY sin, or is not HABITUALLY a sinner as he was before he came to know Jesus. The born again believer has no compulsion to sin over and over as He once had, driven by his fallen nature. He who is born again will not continue in, or like their sin. If anyone continually and habitually sins and does not feel ill about it, it may prove that he has NEVER been spiritually renewed. If one likes to sin and finds little consequence from it, not being grieved by what they have done they probably need to question if the Holy Spirit has His convicting work in their life. When one is sinning habitually, willfully without feeling any remorse and it does not lead them to repentance but hardens them, this shows that he is under the influence of the one whose nature it has been to sin.

As for "keep" or "follow". What is the difference???? Aren't they inclusive of each other.

Again, we can try to "follow" the commandments as best we can but once again everyone knows that we can not be successful. I agree completely that We can and should try to follow them.

 

[Jim Langston]

As for "keep" or "follow". What is the difference???? Aren't they inclusive of each other.

Again, we can try to "follow" the commandments as best we can but once again everyone knows that we can not be successful. I agree completely that We can and should try to follow them.

Ahh, it all becomes clear. No, there is a difference between keep and follow. If I am to keep the ten commandments I cannot, for if I break the least od them I am guilty of all of them. It is as you said, we try to follow the commandments the best we can. That is the question. Not if we are required to not break the commandmenta, but if we are supposed to try to follow rhen.

This clears up my confusion when you would state the same beliefs I have yet deny we need to follow the commandments.

Personally, I don't like the phrase the best we can because we can always do better. This would seem to indicate that someone in an off day who does simething wrong wouldn't be saved because it was not the best they could.

Would you answer the OP in the affirmative, you already have, with the understanding we need to follow ten commandments, not neccessarily keep them?

I'm planning on doing a poll and need to be clear in the question.

 

[Major1]

Ahh, it all becomes clear. No, there is a difference between keep and follow. If I am to keep the ten commandments I cannot, for if I break the least od them I am guilty of all of them. It is as you said, we try to follow the commandments the best we can. That is the question. Not if we are required to not break the commandmenta, but if we are supposed to try to follow rhen.

This clears up my confusion when you would state the same beliefs I have yet deny we need to follow the commandments.

Personally, I don't like the phrase the best we can because we can always do better. This would seem to indicate that someone in an off day who does simething wrong wouldn't be saved because it was not the best they could.

Would you answer the OP in the affirmative, you already have, with the understanding we need to follow ten commandments, not neccessarily keep them?

I'm planning on doing a poll and need to be clear in the question.

Aren't you still cherry picking words???

If you are playing basketball with some buddies in the park and you take out your wallet and keys and ask a friend to KEEP them for you, obviously you want him to hang on to them and not lose them. You are not telling him "to obey" them.

It seems to that you are going out of your way to make something simple very complicated.

Again, (6th time), I personally try to do what the Commandments say I should do. I strive to obey the commandments but just like everyone else in the world, I fail.

But whether I succeed or fail in following/obeying the commandments of God, my salvation is not affected.

Our attempts to keep/ the law perfectly ourselves as a means of salvation has been entirely set aside because Another person has rendered this perfect obedience to the law on our behalf. God doesn't leave it to us to satisfy the law, because "by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified in His sight; for by the law is the knowledge of sin." The Lord Jesus Christ saves us by keeping the law for us. The Lord Jesus has satisfied the law and kept it perfectly.

The good news is that perfect obedience that God requires has been obtained by Jesus Christ. In that sense, we are saved by obedience. "Through the obedience of the One, the many will be made righteous" (Romans 5:19). The obedience to the Law that God requires setting us right with Him is the work that God Himself accepted in Christ on the cross. We stand right before God because of the perfect obedience that Jesus performed for us.

 

[Jim Langston]

Aren't you still cherry picking words???

If you are playing basketball with some buddies in the park and you take out your wallet and keys and ask a friend to KEEP them for you, obviously you want him to hang on to them and not lose them. You are not telling him "to obey" them.

It seems to that you are going out of your way to make something simple very complicated.

Again, (6th time), I personally try to do what the Commandments say I should do. I strive to obey the commandments but just like everyone else in the world, I fail.

But whether I succeed or fail in following/obeying the commandments of God, my salvation is not affected.

Our attempts to keep/ the law perfectly ourselves as a means of salvation has been entirely set aside because Another person has rendered this perfect obedience to the law on our behalf. God doesn't leave it to us to satisfy the law, because "by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified in His sight; for by the law is the knowledge of sin." The Lord Jesus Christ saves us by keeping the law for us. The Lord Jesus has satisfied the law and kept it perfectly.

The good news is that perfect obedience that God requires has been obtained by Jesus Christ. In that sense, we are saved by obedience. "Through the obedience of the One, the many will be made righteous" (Romans 5:19). The obedience to the Law that God requires setting us right with Him is the work that God Himself accepted in Christ on the cross. We stand right before God because of the perfect obedience that Jesus performed for us.

You say that as Christians we are supposed to try to follow the commandments, yet you say we are not supposed to try to follow the commandments. I am done asking you. I have come to the conclusion that either you don't understand the question, even though you answer it in the affirmative then say no, that's what I meant, or you have some problem with words. Nothing more I can do.

God bless you.

 

[Major1]

You say that as Christians we are supposed to try to follow the commandments, yet you say we are not supposed to try to follow the commandments. I am done asking you. I have come to the conclusion that either you don't understand the question, even though you answer it in the affirmative then say no, that's what I meant, or you have some problem with words. Nothing more I can do.

God bless you.

I am glad to hear that Jim. It has been obvious that you are trying to use entrapment to force some kind of spoken error to validate your thinking.

I have said and say one more time to you .........
"We all should try to follow the commandments of God".

"However, we do not have to follow the commandments to be saved or to stay saved because we are not saved by the law but by GRACE through faith.

I do not know of any other way to say that so you can understand.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Think of it this way (perhaps anyway).
In any city in the untied states, a person citizen or not, can keep the law perfectly IF they never break a law (civil or criminal).
OR, they can follow the rules, follow the law - (which everyone does OR ELSE) - and
observe all the traffic , pedestrian, and noise ordinance laws ;
and
then if you break one (ON PURPOSE), you may be shot, fined or arrested or jailed.

 

[Major1]

Think of it this way (perhaps anyway).
In any city in the untied states, a person citizen or not, can keep the law perfectly IF they never break a law (civil or criminal).
OR, they can follow the rules, follow the law - (which everyone does OR ELSE) - and
observe all the traffic , pedestrian, and noise ordinance laws ;
and
then if you break one (ON PURPOSE), you may be shot, fined or arrested or jailed.

I would say that your example applies to any city in the world.

And again, there is NO ONE who can keep all the laws perfectly even when they try.

After Paul was saved. After he was appointed an apostle by Christ, he wrote in Rom. 7:15 Paul describes his and our condition. ........
“For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.”

Here Paul explains his own struggle with sin that is indicative of us all. He does what he does not want to do-sin. And what he wants to do he fails in. He goes on Rom. 7:17......
“it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me” V.18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing. Notice what Paul says next-V.20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me. V. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”

Paul says it is “ sin that dwells in me “ twice in this area of Scripture. He then brings it to a conclusion “O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God-- through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.” The body of death is another way of explaining where sin resides and that is because he could not and we can not keep the law.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

And again, there is NO ONE who can keep all the laws perfectly even when they try.

And again, SO WHAT ?