Is following the 10 commandments required for salvation?

[stuart lawrence]

And the bible warns about those that teach lawlessness. lawlessness.

For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law but under grace rom6:14

As I said, I was raised in churches that have your views.
You have two choices. You either become hardnosed, preaching a message you cannot live up to in your own life , or you walk away crushed. You water down the law of God to a place you believe you can be righteous/accepted by observing it. I know I cannot do that.
The greatest message preached since Christ walked this earth is found in Paul's letters. It was not by chance he was chosen by Christ to preach it. The problem all believers have is obedience to the moral law/ ten commandments. That is why Paul specifically stated those laws were the ministration of death. And it is those laws that Paul knew he could not be righteous by obedience to them. It is the same for you, me and everyone else.
if you could have a righteousness of observing the moral law Christ need not have died at Calvary for the legalistic law/ mosaic law could be faultlessly observed, as Paul tells us he faultlessly obeyed them.
You read the letter and hinge everything on it.
But the letter kills, the spirit gives life.

 

[Jim Langston]

Your response is easily repudiated by scripture:

As for zeal, persecuting the church, as for legalistic righteousness, faultless
Phil 3:6

You see, Paul could be righteous under the mosaic law/ legalistic law for he faultlessly obeyed it. So concerning that law he would not state you can have no righteousness concerning that law would he. You have made a serious error.
The law Paul could not be righteous under was the moral law/ ten commandments, and it is the moral law that no one can be righteous under in Gods sight.
The Pharisees of Jesus day were the sane. They faultlessly obeyed the legalistic law, but on the inside were full of wickedness, hypocrisy and everything unclean.
Sadly, you will not listen even to the scripture. I grew up in churches you go to now. I know how desperately people cling to a performance based Christianity. It is a terribly warped sense of God. For you believe God is less loving to his children than a loving parent is to their child. If a child errs, does a loving parent threaten to throw them out of the family home? The child comes and asks their parents forgiveness, for they will have no rest or peace until they do so. They do not ask their parents forgiveness believing I they do not they will be thrown out of the home

You make a lot of man made reasoning without any scripture to back it up. Again, Paul says,we are not under the law then says if we don't love our neighbors as ourselves we are not going to heaven, so it is obvious that loving our neighbors as our selves is not part of rhis "law". Nothing you have shown scripturally refutes this. I have already quoted the scripture where Paul says this. I have already quoted the scripture where Jesus says love thy neighbor as thyself is at least a part of having eternal life. His exact words were "do this and ye shall live" I have already quoted the scripture where Jesus says to follow the commandments when a man asked him how to have eternal life. No scripture you have quoted refutes this.

All you are giving me is man's logic and we are told "lean not on your own understanding" and "there is a way that seems right unto a man but the ends thereof are the ways of death".

Jesus clearly says "do this and you shall live". You say "but we are not under the law". Paul says we are not under the law, you have to love your neighbor as yourself, you must follow the commandments (he actually listed murdering, adultery and a few others).

Without scripture saying we do not have to follow the commandments or love our neighbor to be saved all you have is man's falable logic that leads to death.

You can only give words, I give the bible.

 

[stuart lawrence]

You make a lot of man made reasoning without any scripture to back it up. Again, Paul says,we are not under the law then says if we don't love our neighbors as ourselves we are not going to heaven, so it is obvious that loving our neighbors as our selves is not part of rhis "law". Nothing you have shown scripturally refutes this. I have already quoted the scripture where Paul says this. I have already quoted the scripture where Jesus says love thy neighbor as thyself is at least a part of having eternal life. His exact words were "do this and ye shall live" I have already quoted the scripture where Jesus says to follow the commandments when a man asked him how to have eternal life. No scripture you have quoted refutes this.

All you are giving me is man's logic and we are told "lean not on your own understanding" and "there is a way that seems right unto a man but the ends thereof are the ways of death".

Jesus clearly says "do this and you shall live". You say "but we are not under the law". Paul says we are not under the law, you have to love your neighbor as yourself, you must follow the commandments (he actually listed murdering, adultery and a few others).

Without scripture saying we do not have to follow the commandments or love our neighbor to be saved all you have is man's falable logic that leads to death.

You can only give words, I give the bible.

I am afraid it is you who ignore the bible. I quoted many scriptures to show the christian has no righteousness of observing the law. I also proved from scripture Paul was not solely referring to the mosaic law, for he said he could faultlessly observe that. Therefore Paul could be righteous concerning that law.
I have also explained to you Jesus lived under the old covenant, so would naturally refer people to the commandments.
May I ask, do you love God? You speak of loving your neighbour but not of loving God. You see, if a person loves God with all their heart, they could never view the removal of a law of righteousness as a licence to sin. You don't seek to offend those you love, nor hurt their feelings. I will say it again. It is utterly impossible to use the knowledge Christ is the end of the whole law unto righteousness as a licence to sin , if you love God with all your heart.
All born again christians want to obey God, for the law has been placed within them. But many want a righteousness of their own. The religious have always attacked true grace and always will
BTW
Be careful what you write. The measure you use to judge others will be used to judge you. Do you perfectly love all those you come into contact with? Do you love them all as yourself?
I repeat, every christian in their heart wants to live as God desires them to, for they have been born again of the spirit

 

[stuart lawrence]

Think of the person you love the most in this world. Lets call them x. A government official of the country you live in, tells you they have the authority to inform you if you harm or kill x you will not face the penalty ascribed by law for doing so.
What will such knowledge do to you? Will you rub your hands in glee and think of ways to break the law in respect of harming or killing the person you think the most of in this world? It is a ridiculous notion isn't it. So I should be where your relationship with God I concerned.

 

[Jim Langston]

I am afraid it is you who ignore the bible. I quoted many scriptures to show the christian has no righteousness of observing the law. I also proved from scripture Paul was not solely referring to the mosaic law, for he said he could faultlessly observe that. Therefore Paul could be righteous concerning that law.
I have also explained to you Jesus lived under the old covenant, so would naturally refer people to the commandments.
May I ask, do you love God? You speak of loving your neighbour but not of loving God. You see, if a person loves God with all their heart, they could never view the removal of a law of righteousness as a licence to sin. You don't seek to offend those you love, nor hurt their feelings. I will say it again. It is utterly impossible to use the knowledge Christ is the end of the whole law unto righteousness as a licence to sin , if you love God with all your heart.
All born again christians want to obey God, for the law has been placed within them. But many want a righteousness of their own. The religious have always attacked true grace and always will
BTW
Be careful what you write. The measure you use to judge others will be used to judge you. Do you perfectly love all those you come into contact with? Do you love them all as yourself?
I repeat, every christian in their heart wants to live as God desires them to, for they have been born again of the spirit

Have I ever said we gain rightousness by following the ten commandments? No, I have not, neither has Paul. Did I ever say following the commandments and loving our neighbors save us? Jesus said love thy neighbor as thyself and you will live, because Jesus has the authority to give rightousness to those He choses, and according to this He chooses to grant rightousess to those who love their neighbors as themselves.

I will no longer respond to your worldly logic for it is quite clear you ignore Jesus when He says "do this and ye shall live" your response being equivalent to "he wasn't talking about me". You ignore Paul when he says "those that do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God" your response seems to be ... what, Paul is lying? Not that it doesn't apply to you because you quote Paul extensively when he says just before this we are not under the law. I guess your response is equivilent to "only half of what paul says applies to me"

If you choose to willfully ignore scripture believing it does not apply to you then there is nothing anyone can say to change your point of view. You ignore the plain text of scripture by claiming it says something it doesn't. You choose to ignore the words of Jesus saying he was talking ro the jews, not the gentiles.

I don't mean to be rude, but this brings to mind a saying, "you can't argue with crazy."

 

[stuart lawrence]

Have I ever said we gain rightousness by following the ten commandments? No, I have not, neither has Paul. Did I ever say following the commandments and loving our neighbors save us? Jesus said love thy neighbor as thyself and you will live, because Jesus has the authority to give rightousness to those hmHe choses, and according to this He chooses to grant rightousess to those who love their neighbors as themselves.

I will no longer respond to your worldly logic for it is quite clear you ignore Jesus when He says "do this and ye shall live" your response being equvalent to "he wasn't talking about me". You ignore Paul when he says "those that do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God" your resonse seems to be ... what, Paul is lying? Not that it doesn't apply to you becauae you quote Paul extensively when he says just before this we are not under the law. I guess your response is equivilent to "only half of what paul says applies to me"

If you choose to willfully ignore svripture believing it does not apply to you then there is nothing anyone can say to change your point of view. You ingore the plain text of scripture by claiming it says sometjhng it doesn't. You choose to ignore the words of Jesus saying he was talking ro the jews, not the gentiles.

I don't mean to be rude, but this brings to mind a saying, "you can't argue with crazy."

You seem to be getting very agitated.

You certainly have stated the belief a person has righteousness/ justification/acceptance by observing the law. The bible is clear, christians have no such righteousness. It is very plainly written.

You say when Paul speaks of no righteousness by observing the law this inly refers to the mosaic law, not the ten commandments. By that statement you are confirming your belief a person has righteousness by observing those laws.
I have shown the absurdity of your conclusions. Paul faultlessly obeyed the mosaic law. So he could have a righteousness under those laws as could every other pharisee I imagine. So why did Jeaus die at Calvary for peoples sins under the mosaic law if your deductions are correct? There would be no need, for man can perfectly obey those laws/ not sin concerning them!
You need to be able to expound scripture, not just woodenly quote the literal letter. That was the problem the Pharisees had. They woodenly quoted the letter, but had no understanding of the heart of the message. So they attacked Jesus as a supposed lawbreaker.
Paul said if he preached circumcision( ie law) he would not be persecuted.
One of the reasons Steven was stoned to death was supposedly for ignoring the law.
As it was 2000 years ago so it I today. The religious who can only recite the letter attack others as preachinglawbreaking.
BTW
The example you keep quoting of Jesus telling the young man to obey the commandments and live, brought the response I always have obeyed them. However, it was not enough was it, read on!!!
You don't realise what you are doing. You are, in reality trying to attain heaven as Paul the pharisee tried to attain it. Indeed, as I tried to attain it when I was young and went to a church much like yours.
You do not love everyone you meet perfectly, so you wont get to heaven will you according to the standard set. You need to be careful what you write.
King David yltimatley relied on Gods unfailing love to attain heaven, the expression of which under the new covenant is Christ dying for our sins at Calvary. You state you rely on what Paul termed theministration of death.
And no born again christian can ignore how God wants them to live, to say such a thing is not to understand the new covenant. The law is in your mind and heart.
You are making wild, irrational statements and failing to correctly quote what I have stated. That says much I am afraid

 

[DarylFawcett]

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