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Good questions.
Plus, it says "If" anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. That's as far as it gets: "If". The rest is speculation, and why on earth speculate such a worst-case scenario as something along the lines of 90% of everyone who ever lived being endlessly tortured? "If" is such a small word upon which to base a sadistic doctrine.
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Once agian christian put the things of now into the things of the future. The kingdom of heaven is now. You can not serve two master's now and think that you will gian peace etc.. This has nothing to do with the ages to come.I'm curious what the "everyone goes to heaven" crowd makes of passages such as these:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5-6
5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy personsuch a man is an idolaterhas any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient.
Originally Posted by ralangley
These two quotes intrigued me. Where did you learn that the RCC manufactured the hell doctrine? I know there are different arguments about what "forever" means, and "perish" for that matter, but I've never heard of the RCC creating the hell doctrine in the first place. Please let me know where you got this. Thanks.
My understanding is the common concept of "hell" as being a place of fire where people are tortured for eternity came from the demon worshippers of Hinduism.
My understanding is the common concept of "hell" as being a place of fire where people are tortured for eternity came from the demon worshippers of Hinduism.
My interlinear say's IF too. So who change it to something else? Sounds like thier the ones in trouble.It's clear as a bell. You're changing it. I'd think twice about that if i was you. You know what the last part of Revelations says, don't you?
I'm curious what the "everyone goes to heaven" crowd makes of passages such as these:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.Ephesians 5:5-6
5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy personsuch a man is an idolaterhas any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient.
Once agian christian put the things of now into the things of the future. The kingdom of heaven is now. You can not serve two master's now and think that you will gian peace etc.. This has nothing to do with the ages to come.
Originally Posted by brinny
It's clear as a bell. You're changing it. I'd think twice about that if i was you. You know what the last part of Revelations says, don't you?
My interlinear say's IF too. So you change it to something else? Sounds like thier the ones in trouble.
Notice that these verses deal with outright inheriting the Kindgom, not merely being citizens of it.
Not all inhabitants of a Kingdom are inheritors of it.
I'm curious what the "everyone goes to heaven" crowd makes of passages such as these:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5-6
5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy personsuch a man is an idolaterhas any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient.
I think you need to kept reading you just shoot yourself in the foot.Okay, interesting.
I think the phrase "will not have ANY inheritance" is pretty clearly talking about present and future things.
When the Bible talks about inheritance it usually means future stuff, too.
Help yourself to google. Type in hell and hinduism. You will get about 3.5 million hits.You're not sure...just assuming..where is the source of your 'understanding'?
Have you ever watched comedy central. It happens all the time.You believe that the Bible is not the inerrant Word of God, and that He would allow His Word to be twisted, and He, mocked? Really?
Yes... I take His grace very for granted. It is totally reliable and really the only thing I have. Doing so is called "faith."It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God. He will not always strive with man. He will show His face at the appointed time and heaven and earth will flee and those on earth will beg for the rocks to fall on them...but alas, there will be no place to hide. He will be here.....in all His wrath...we're spoiled, aren't we? Have taken His grace for granted, that gives us even our very breath.
Help yourself to google. Type in hell and hinduism. You will get about 3.5 million hits.
What do you base that claim on? Is there a Scripture passage that tells us non-inheritors will be inhabitants?
So... just trying to understand what you're saying here.... Is it your position that the wicked will inhabit the Kingdom that is owned by the righteous?
Does that mean that the righteous will have the right to kick them out if we want to?After all, they're just... uh... tenants by sufferance I think would be the legal term for it.
So our God is a horrifying end? Only man could come up with that one to tell people about a God of love. GOOD GRIEF!What I find interesting is that virtually every religion has a concept our initial separation from God, and of a place of everlasting punishment for those who do wrong. Dare I suggest that its an archetype? A deep imprint in our souls that transcends our limited reason?
I love the idea of not having a hell. I love the idea of reincarnation for that matter. I'd love to know the countless people and family members that are good but unbelieving will be with me forever in Heaven. But the consequences of being wrong greatly overshadow my preferences. Whether bible translators use the word hell, hades, the pit, the Valley of Hinnor or a variety of other terms is irrelevant. If we are to believe the bible, its all a horrifying end for those who don't believe.
Yiu know one doesn't get the inhertance till the one given it dies. I think that goes for Jesus given it and man dieing to himself to get it. all die and all made alive opens up alot of food to think about. BE HEALED NATIONS.I base it on the word "inherit". To inherit a Kingdom, one must be a child of the King.
At that point in Revelation where everything seems to have reached the final goal of being 100% Settled, there is still something going on necessitating a Tree of Life to provide Healing for the Nations (Revelation 22:2).
But if one takes the traditional church's eschatological stance, there wouldn't be any more healing needed, because those who are doomed-forever-in-hell aren't going to be getting any healing, and those in heaven aren't going to be needing it.
I conclude that the presence of this healing tree is for those still in a wicked condition; once they've each had enough of their fallen condition, they can avail themselves of the Tree and finally be restored.
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Whether bible translators use the word hell, hades, the pit, the Valley of Hinnor or a variety of other terms is irrelevant. If we are to believe the bible, its all a horrifying end for those who don't believe.
Oh, it's very relevant. The bible you choose to believe was handled by the translators. The versions that have eliminated the word "hell" are the ones that are getting closer to what the original texts were trying to get at, and those original texts were God-breathed. So if they're not saying that eternal torture awaits most of mankind, then we have to question the preaching of it..
Furthermore, even if the original texts do not teach eternal torture that does not in any way prove to us that the wicked and unrepentant will go to heaven.
It is possible that if there is no eternal punishment, then the wicked will simply be annihilated. In which case, we should still be preaching the serious - eternal - consequences of rejecting Christ.
I base it on the word "inherit". To inherit a Kingdom, one must be a child of the King.
At that point in Revelation where everything seems to have reached the final goal of being 100% Settled, there is still something going on necessitating a Tree of Life to provide Healing for the Nations (Revelation 22:2).
But if one takes the traditional church's eschatological stance, there wouldn't be any more healing needed, because those who are doomed-forever-in-hell aren't going to be getting any healing, and those in heaven aren't going to be needing it.
I conclude that the presence of this healing tree is for those still in a wicked condition; once they've each had enough of their fallen condition, they can avail themselves of the Tree and finally be restored.
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