Is Everybody going to heaven?

[HumbleServant94]

It was the logical outcome of not believing in the Messiah. Those that refused to do so continued on with their Old Covenant religious rituals, and therefore got creamed during the fall of Jerusalem in AD70. Those who heeded the warnings fled to the mountains of Judea.

This is where I see all the Scriptural verses that undeniably link salvation with belief coming into play: believing protected people from perishing when God executed His judgment upon Jerusalem; they got out of town before all heck broke loose.


.

This makes a good point. I still don't agree that everyone's going to heaven.

 

[Rajni]

The normal Scriptures. The Holy Bible. That Bible.

Apparently you've just joined this thread. Did you read the post, #137? There is more than one translation of the bible -- you realize that, right?

Why would there be no Hell? Then Jesus wouldn't have to save us. The whole crucifixion would have been for nothing.

If by "hell" you mean sin and death, that is what Christ saved us from. If by "hell" you mean either annihilation, or eternal torture in a fiery pit with devils, pitchforks, gouls and goblins (you know ... the "orthodox" view), that is not in Scripture and is, therefore, not something Christ needed to save us from.

Besides hell is in every Bible.

Here is a link about that, which has already been provided in post 137: Hell: Even Bible Translators Themselves Don't Agree

 

[Rajni]

Although this thread has some good points, other points are about as idiotic as they come. Once again, not everyone is going to heaven. That is just the way it works. No matter how many points you make, it's not going to change it. I am angry right now because you keep contradicting God's Word. F.Y.I. Different translated bibles don't make much of a difference. They are different in the way they say it, but they are the same meaning. Duh! The belief that no one's going to hell was made by Satan. He wants people to think that. It's pretty obvious the belief is wrong because all over the bible it talks about hell.

Thanks for sharing, HumbleServant.



.

 

[Henaynei]

Thanks for sharing, HumbleServant.



.

humility does not mean mousily agreeing with error, especially when someones eternal salvation is at stake..... Truth, real Truth, G-d's Truth needs no apology or excuses.

HumbleServant is not touting their POV but the POV of the G-d of the bible - HE is not humble in the way you intimate either.... He is G-d Almighty, He is Righteous and even more He is Just and Omnipotent. He is totally unconcerned what any of His creations might think is unfair.

 

[HumbleServant94]

Apparently you've just joined this thread. Did you read the post, #137? There is more than one translation of the bible -- you realize that, right?

If by "hell" you mean sin and death, that is what Christ saved us from. If by "hell" you mean either annihilation, or eternal torture in a fiery pit with devils, pitchforks, gouls and goblins (you know ... the "orthodox" view), that is not in Scripture and is, therefore, not something Christ needed to save us from.

Here is a link about that, which has already been provided in post 137: Hell: Even Bible Translators Themselves Don't Agree

Different translations don't make a difference in what the Bible says. They may be different in what they say, but the meaning is still there. By the way, an eternal pit of torture does exist. But it doesn't have devils, pitchforks, ghouls and goblins. That is just a secular stereotype. Besides, that is what Christ saved us from. It's called the second death.

 

[HumbleServant94]

humility does not mean mousily agreeing with error, especially when someones eternal salvation is at stake..... Truth, real Truth, G-d's Truth needs no apology or excuses.

HumbleServant is not touting their POV but the POV of the G-d of the bible - HE is not humble in the way you intimate either.... He is G-d Almighty, He is Righteous and even more He is Just and Omnipotent. He is totally unconcerned what any of His creations might think is unfair.

Thanks.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Different translations don't make a difference in what the Bible says. They may be different in what they say, but the meaning is still there.

Technically, when someone uses a a different translation than they normally do for a certain verse, it's best to ask why the person is using the translation they decided to use. Keep in mind things like:

1) Are there any grammatical, contextual, historical, and/or cultural reasons for making this choice?
2) Is it just an arbitrary choice? If so, then the posters chosen translation is no better than your translation of choice.
3) Is the poster using their chosen translation because it fits their view? If so, then the poster is ad hoc.
4) Is this the translation they use under normal circumstances?


We get theology out of the bible; we don't read it in.

 

[Rajni]

Different translations don't make a difference in what the Bible says. They may be different in what they say, but the meaning is still there. By the way, an eternal pit of torture does exist. But it doesn't have devils, pitchforks, ghouls and goblins. That is just a secular stereotype. Besides, that is what Christ saved us from. It's called the second death.

1. Christ died in our place. If the death He died in our place was to be understood as an eternal pit of torture, then He Himself would still be there to this day and forever more.

2. Whether we're talking about the 1st death, the 2nd death or the 45th death, ultimately death itself is abolished. So the 2nd death cannot be tantamount to an eternal pit of torture.



.

 

[Rajni]

humility does not mean mousily agreeing with error, especially when someones eternal salvation is at stake..... Truth, real Truth, G-d's Truth needs no apology or excuses.

HumbleServant is not touting their POV but the POV of the G-d of the bible - HE is not humble in the way you intimate either.... He is G-d Almighty, He is Righteous and even more He is Just and Omnipotent. He is totally unconcerned what any of His creations might think is unfair.

Henaynei, it's good to see you back. Have you had a chance to look at the questions I asked you back in post #736? You kind of disappeared after I had posted them.

Thanks again!


.

 

[HumbleServant94]

1. Christ died in our place. If the death He died in our place was to be understood as an eternal pit of torture, then He Himself would still be there to this day and forever more.

2. Whether we're talking about the 1st death, the 2nd death or the 45th death, ultimately death itself is abolished. So the 2nd death cannot be tantamount to an eternal pit of torture.



.

1. No, if He died to save us from Hell, he would never be there. That statement is unbiblical and wrong.

2. Then why do Christians still die? That doesn't make sense.

 

[lismore]

I have heard a lot of teachings about hell, but none of them make sense to me.

For example, hell is a palce where God isnt. But isnt God omnipresent?

I dont think 'hell' is a Greek word. The NT originally being written in Greek, perhaps the equivalent(s) word translated as hell would shed some light on the subject.

Its an awful thing to see someone on fire. How much worse to see people on fire forever? If hell is a real place we should try to see as few people would go there as possible.

 

[DeborahsSong]

Although this thread has some good points, other points are about as idiotic as they come. Once again, not everyone is going to heaven. That is just the way it works.

WHY HAVE THIS THREAD IF "THAT IS JUST THE WAY IT WORKS"? OBVIOUSLY, THERE IS DISAGREEMENT AND THOSE OF US WHO DISAGREE, AREN'T GOING TO BE PERSUADED BY A DECLARATION ON YOUR PART. WE NEED ARGUMENTS AND SPECIFICS FROM YOU.

No matter how many points you make, it's not going to change it.

AGAIN, THIS IS NOT HELPFUL. WHY DON'T YOU PRESENT SOME ARGUMENTS TO COUNTER OUR POINTS?

I am angry right now because you keep contradicting God's Word.

THIS IS A SERIOUS CHARGE-SPECIFICS PLEASE!

F.Y.I. Different translated bibles don't make much of a difference. They are different in the way they say it, but they are the same meaning. Duh!

NOT SO, AS WE HAVE BEEN POINTING OUT IN NUMBEROUS POSTS. FOR EXAMPLE, THE KJV USES "ETERNAL" IN PLACES WHERE YOUNG'S LITERAL TRANSLATION USES "AGE DURING", A TEMPORAL TERM, TO TRANSLATE THE GREEK AIONIOS. THIS IS A HUGH DIFFERENCE!

The belief that no one's going to hell was made by Satan. He wants people to think that. It's pretty obvious the belief is wrong because all over the bible it talks about hell.

WELL, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THOSE WHO HOLD THAT THERE IS NO HELL. THEY SHOULD HAVE AN ANSWER FOR REFERENCES TO IT AS SHEOL/GEHENNA/LAKE OF FIRE/ETC THAT DON'T INVOLVE SATANIC INFLUENCE. SOME OF US BELIEVE THERE IS A HELL, BUT SEE IT AS A PROCESS OF REMEDIAL PUNISHMENT, NOT AS AN ETERNAL ABODE. THIS THREAD CONTAINS A NUMBER OF OUR POSTS SUPPORTING THIS POSITION WITH SCRIPTURAL REFERENCES.

 

[HumbleServant94]

I have heard a lot of teachings about hell, but none of them make sense to me.

For example, hell is a palce where God isnt. But isnt God omnipresent?

I dont think 'hell' is a Greek word. The NT originally being written in Greek, perhaps the equivalent(s) word translated as hell would shed some light on the subject.

Its an awful thing to see someone on fire. How much worse to see people on fire forever? If hell is a real place we should try to see as few people would go there as possible.

God can be in Hell if He wants to. It's actually supposed to be a punishment in Hell to be seperated from God. That's the worst part about Hell. Eternal seperation from God.

 

[HumbleServant94]

Although this thread has some good points, other points are about as idiotic as they come. Once again, not everyone is going to heaven. That is just the way it works.

WHY HAVE THIS THREAD IF "THAT IS JUST THE WAY IT WORKS"? OBVIOUSLY, THERE IS DISAGREEMENT AND THOSE OF US WHO DISAGREE, AREN'T GOING TO BE PERSUADED BY A DECLARATION ON YOUR PART. WE NEED ARGUMENTS AND SPECIFICS FROM YOU.

No matter how many points you make, it's not going to change it.

AGAIN, THIS IS NOT HELPFUL. WHY DON'T YOU PRESENT SOME ARGUMENTS TO COUNTER OUR POINTS?

I am angry right now because you keep contradicting God's Word.

THIS IS A SERIOUS CHARGE-SPECIFICS PLEASE!

F.Y.I. Different translated bibles don't make much of a difference. They are different in the way they say it, but they are the same meaning. Duh!

NOT SO, AS WE HAVE BEEN POINTING OUT IN NUMBEROUS POSTS. FOR EXAMPLE, THE KJV USES "ETERNAL" IN PLACES WHERE YOUNG'S LITERAL TRANSLATION USES "AGE DURING", A TEMPORAL TERM, TO TRANSLATE THE GREEK AIONIOS. THIS IS A HUGH DIFFERENCE!

The belief that no one's going to hell was made by Satan. He wants people to think that. It's pretty obvious the belief is wrong because all over the bible it talks about hell.

WELL, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THOSE WHO HOLD THAT THERE IS NO HELL. THEY SHOULD HAVE AN ANSWER FOR REFERENCES TO IT AS SHEOL/GEHENNA/LAKE OF FIRE/ETC THAT DON'T INVOLVE SATANIC INFLUENCE. SOME OF US BELIEVE THERE IS A HELL, BUT SEE IT AS A PROCESS OF REMEDIAL PUNISHMENT, NOT AS AN ETERNAL ABODE. THIS THREAD CONTAINS A NUMBER OF OUR POSTS SUPPORTING THIS POSITION WITH SCRIPTURAL REFERENCES.

1. Just because people disagree with it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

2. Why would Hell be in the Bible if it's not real?

3. See number 2

4. Age during can still mean eternal.

5. Hell was made as an eternal place. It remains an eternal place.
Luke 22:21-31 (This may be wrong. I'll have to check it out). Anyways, anybody can prove any point using the Scriptures, whether it's true or not.

 

[HumbleServant94]

Sorry about the wrong verses. See Luke 16:21-31.

 

[DeborahsSong]

Its an awful thing to see someone on fire. How much worse to see people on fire forever? If hell is a real place we should try to see as few people would go there as possible.

I ENJOYED YOUR POST, BUT JUST WANTED TO COMMENT ON THE POINT YOU MADE ABOVE. FIRE IS ACTUALLY A GOOD THING FOR GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE. JESUS SAID THAT EVERYONE WILL BE SALTED WITH FIRE. WE MAY ALL HAVE TO PASS THROUGH THE LAKE OF FIRE. JESUS ONLY ASSURED US THAT OVERCOMERS WON'T BE HURT BY THE SECOND DEATH AND THAT IT HAS NO POWER OVER THOSE WHO ARE PART OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION.

THERE IS NO ETERNAL PUNISHMENT. PLEASE SEE EARLIER POSTS BY MYSELF OR CHAELA DEALING WITH THE PROPER TRANSLATION OF THE GREEK WORD AION AND ITS COGNATES.

WE CAN'T PREVENT ANYONE FROM GOING TO HELL. ONLY THE FATHER CAN DRAW MEN TO THE SON. GOD "...IS NOT SERVED BY HUMAN HANDS, AS IF HE NEEDED ANYTHING, BECAUSE HE HIMSELF GIVES ALL MEN LIFE AND BREATH AND EVERYTING ELSE. FROM ONE MAN HE MADE EVERY NATION OF MEN, THAT THEY SHOULD INHABIT THE WHOLE EARTH; AND HE DETERMINED THE TIMES SET FOR THEM AND THE EXACT PLACES WHERE THEY SHOULD LIVE" ACTS 17:25,26. ENOCH SON IN DISCUSSING THIS PASSAGE BY PAUL TO THE UNBELIEVERS IN ATHENS, ALSO NOTED IN VERSE 29 THAT PAUL REFERS TO THEM AS "GOD'S OFFSPRING".

NOW, GOD MAY LEAD US BY HIS HOLY SPIRIT TO SPEAK A WORD, OR DO SOMETHING THAT IS PART OF HIS PROCESS OF BRINGING ONE TO CHRIST, BUT WORKS OF THE FLESH ARE TO NO AVAIL.

 

[DeborahsSong]

1. Just because people disagree with it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

JUST BECAUSE YOU AGREE, DOESN'T MEAN IT EXISTS. HOWEVER, I HAPPEN TO AGREE WITH YOU THAT HELL DOES EXIST.

2. Why would Hell be in the Bible if it's not real?

WE ARE NOT IN CONFLICT ON THIS POINT, SEE ABOVE.

3. See number 2

?

4. Age during can still mean eternal.

AION IS A TEMPORAL TERM. IT'S A PERIOD OF TIME THAT HAS A BEGINNING AND AN END.

5. Hell was made as an eternal place. It remains an eternal place.
Luke 16:21-31 Anyways, anybody can prove any point using the Scriptures, whether it's true or not.

I DON'T BELIEVE THIS PASSAGE ABOUT THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS SUPPORTS YOUR POSITION. JESUS SPOKE THIS PARABLE BEFORE HIS DEATH AND RESURRECTION. I THINK SOMEONE MADE THE POINT EARLIER IN THE THREAD THAT CHRIST BECAME THE BRIDGE OVER THE CHASM, BUT I MIGHT HAVE READ IT ELSEWHERE.

YOU ARE RIGHT THAT ISOLATED SCRIPTURE CAN BE IMPROPERLY USED. ONE OF THE ADVANTAGES OF THE INCLUSIONIST POSITION IS THAT SCRIPTURE TAKEN AS A WHOLE SUPPORTS THE IDEA THAT GOD IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MEN, WHEREAS, THOSE WHO SUPPORT THE IDEA OF ETERNAL HELL, AT LEAST IN THIS THREAD, KEEP REPEATING A LIMITED NUMBER OF EXAMPLES THAT SEEM TO SUPPORT THEIR VIEW, UNTIL ONE LOOKS AT THE ORIGINAL GREEK TEXT. IT WAS THE INCONSISTENCY OF THESE EXAMPLES WITH OTHER SCRIPTURE THAT CAUSED US TO SCRUTINIZE THEM MORE CLOSELY, AND RESULTED IN OUR CHANGING OUR POSITION TO AN INCLUSIONIST ONE.

 

[whatfor]

I have heard a lot of teachings about hell, but none of them make sense to me.

For example, hell is a palce where God isnt. But isnt God omnipresent?

I dont think 'hell' is a Greek word. The NT originally being written in Greek, perhaps the equivalent(s) word translated as hell would shed some light on the subject.

Its an awful thing to see someone on fire. How much worse to see people on fire forever? If hell is a real place we should try to see as few people would go there as possible.

God is omnipresent so He is everywhere.
But His manifest presence is not there.

 

[Rajni]

1. No, if He died to save us from Hell, he would never be there. That statement is unbiblical and wrong.

Yes, if the death He died in our place (you do realize He died in our place, right?) was eternity in Hell, then He would, logically, be spending eternity in Hell. Obviously that's not what He's doing, because death is not eternity in Hell.

2. Then why do Christians still die? That doesn't make sense.

Either He hasn't abolished all forms of death yet, or the death that's been abolished is that of the spiritual (which is really the only death that would be of any real consequence anyway).


.


.

 

[HumbleServant94]

First off, I have a literalist point of view. So don't kill me for it.
I honestly feel like the hostility just went off the charts. Look, we can all agree believers in Christ are going to Heaven. How about we just wait till we get there to find out. Or at least can't we just calm down and stop fighting? There's a time for fighting and there's a time for healthy, calm debate. So can't we all just take a chill pill? 'Cause I'm getting really tired of this. Besides, we all have different opinions. Maybe we should just pray to God about it, and He'll show us the right answer. Besides, is this what God wants us to do? Fight over beliefs? Doesn't He want us to be an example for unbelievers?