Is Everybody going to heaven?

[Ave Maria]

PaladineGirl (I love my precious kitties too). Thanks for your latest post! In your earlier post (168), most of the verses you quote, are no trouble at all from an inclusionist point of view. The exception would be Mt 25:41, where we would take issue with aion meaning eternal in the Greek.

The reason your other verses are not problematic is that man is harvested in stages over the ages (aions). As Paul puts it in 1 Cor 15:22-24 "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end...."

As to the narrow door, have you noticed how evasive Jesus was in his answer? He really didn't answer their question at all. Recall also, that when Jesus said it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to be saved, His disciples asked "Who then can be saved?" Jesus response was that for man it is impossible, but not for God.

I hope this throws some light on the inclusionist perspective, althought I can't speak for all. Good night and God bless you, as well.

I'm sorry Deborah but I still disagree with the inclusionist perspective. To me, it is clearly Biblical that there is an eternal Hell for those who are not saved. To say otherwise is to twist scripture around to suit your (referring to anyone, not you in particular) own view.

If you'd like, you can feel free to take each of those verses and explain how they fit the inclusionist view. Then maybe this debate can get a little further.

God Bless,
PaladinGirl

P.S. May your kitties be blessed as well.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Let me just say that power doesn't mean to me what man thinks it means. I hope that makes sense. To me it means the LOVE OF GOD COMING OFF SOMEBODIES BEING. POWER IS LOVE!

Amen to this.
What writings had you been talking about earlier?

 

[HEisGoodalways]

HEisGoodalways-How I enjoy your posts, particularly 148, since at church this morning we touched on some of the issues you bring up. We were speculating that those who triumph over the beast and his mark in Rev 15 may be believers who believe, i.e. they hear His words, keep His testimonies and His works. Those who don't overcome, are still focused on their old Adamic nature and man's works. The mark of the beast is on the forehead, so it could speak of our mind and identity. The mark on the hand could reference man's work. In other words, the message may be that there's the old man and the new man, and if you haven't made the shift, you will not be in the group of overcomers. Recall, 2 men, not a man and a woman, in a bed. One will be taken, the other left, Luke 17:34. (I just looked up "taken" in Strong's and it can have the meaning of "assume an office", interesting.)

Another way to state this is that many Christians see themselves as the old man, since our minds were taken hostage by the sinful nature. Case in point, the old man says "Can I make it thru the day without sinning?" The new man says "Praise God, I thank you for my true nature, which cannot sin, and for your testimony that I am holy in Christ and seated in heavenly places."-hugh difference.

My musings relate to the thread topic in this way. Have you noticed the Song of Moses, since you became an inclusionist? I had not. Rev 15:4 "Who shall not fear thee, O lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only are holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest." This song seems to be a testimony the overcomers have, and, if so, to whom? Since "angel" can mean simply messenger, perhaps this group are the angels ministering to those in the lake? Again, disclaimer-just wondering.

I'm inclined to think the HS designed Rev to work on several levels.

The mark of the beast made its first appearance in the Garden of Eden. Our eyes behold its presence with the understanding of these words: "Now the serpent was more subtle than ANY BEAST of the field which the Lord God had made" (Gen. 3:1). The picture here goes beyond a slithering snake in the grass. Even the dullest and most unimaginative mind catches the thought that the true character involved here is "that old serpent, the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole earth" (Rev. 12:9). This problem of a mark by the beast is something man has been faced with ever since that fateful day in Eden. In Gen. 2:15 we read how "the Lord God took the man, and put him into the Garden of Eden to dress it and to KEEP (guard) it." These words tell us that there was not only a beast (the serpent) in the earth in that hour, but there was a beastly spirit and a bestial system already waiting to place its mark upon Adam and his Garden. Of all the bestial kingdom "the serpent was more subtle than any BEAST of the field which the Lord God had made."
The serpent was called a BEAST, and was not dwelling alone, but was the most subtle of the whole bestial realm, the great dictator of the bestial kingdom, and the mind of the serpent IS THE MIND OF THE BESTIAL SYSTEM. In the fall of man the mind was involved, for there was an appeal made to the mind, to be as gods KNOWING good and evil. Likewise the hand was involved, for it speaks of the outer action of participation as they reached forth and TOOK of the forbidden fruit. In Revelation, again, the hand and the mind are brought under the mark of the beast - under the influence that brings forth an expression of the inappropriate behavior with animals character, the image of the bestial system. Adam, made in the image and likeness of God, exchanged that blessed realm for that which pertains to the bestial kingdom. And man in the natural today is most bestial except when he is controlled by the Spirit of God. Man, in his imagery, is corrupted into the similitude of beasts, believes he evolved as such, therefore the manifestation of his character is rooted in the nature of the bestial realm.
The thing of greatest importance here is the awful fact that, before ever man's HAND was extended and the transgression committed, that old serpent, the king of the bestial system, the devil, had IMPARTED HIS MIND TO THEM. The MARK OF THE BEAST was in their hearts, in their MINDS, and in their FOREHEADS, and what they did afterward was the MARK OF THE BEAST in their HANDS. It is not difficult to see that the things which men are doing today and have done in ages past are but the MANIFESTATION of that which is in their minds, for, "As a man THINKS in his heart, so is he" (Prov. 23:7) and "a good man out of the good treasure of the heart brings forth good things; and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things" (Mat. 12:34-35). The mark of the beast that appears IN THE HAND (outward actions) is the direct result of the mark of the beast IN THE FOREHEAD (mind, nature). This is the mind that inspires the ever increasing confusion and violence that is running rampant among all nations.
From the day of the fall in Eden even unto this hour man has borne the imprint of the satanic mind, the nature of the serpent, the MARK OF THE BEAST. That mark IN HIS MIND has been manifested in everything he has set HIS HAND to do. The whole bestial system is one that has filled the world with wars and rumors of wars, greed, hatred, bloodshed, and oppression. Out from this bestial nature has emerged every imaginable devilish perversion. And as a result of the bestial system the mind of Christ has been replaced with the carnal mind to bring about a form of godliness devoid of power or reality, but filled with empty ritual and ceremony, static creeds and doctrines, and a confusion of human ideas and methods that stagger the imagination.
Revelation, chapters thirteen and fourteen belong to each other and should be read and studied together. The neglect of this principle has caused much mischief in modern times. If many present day writers and preachers had set THE MARK OF THE BEAST of chapter thirteen against THE MARK OF THE FATHER'S NAME on the foreheads of the saints described in chapter fourteen, we would have had less of frightful and ghastly events so confidently foretold in books and pamphlets so readily devoured by precious Christians highly susceptible to prophetic sensationalism.
It must be obvious to every spiritual mind that the writing of the Father's name in the foreheads of those standing on mount Zion is a SPIRITUAL WORK. Zion represents the very highest position attainable in the Kingdom of God. From the literal mount Zion David and the kings of Israel reigned gloriously, and the Ark of God rested there all through the reign of David and for several years afterward until the temple was completed by Solomon. Mount Zion, the hill of David the king, was the highest pinnacle of glory attainable in Israel. But that Zion was only a faint shadow of THE ZION TO WHICH WE ARE COME (Heb. 12:18-22). David was king over natural Israel. Christ is King over spiritual Israel. David dwelt on the natural mount Zion. Therefore Christ dwells upon the spiritual mount Zion, And this spiritual mount Zion is composed of those who reach the very highest pinnacle attainable in the Kingdom of God: those who, like king David of old are "a man after Mine own heart, which shall fulfill ALL MY WILL" (Acts 13:22). This Mount Zion Company is the ruling class, the overcomers of whom it is written: "To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne" (Rev. 3:21). These are the Kings and Priests unto God, after the order of Melchizedek, those who have attained to the highest postion of honor and might and true greatness in the Kingdom of God. It comprises those who are such as have gone all the way with their Lord and shall now rule with Christ upon His throne over God's infinite realm for evermore.
These are they of whom it is written, "And I looked, and lo, a Lamb stood on mount Zion, and with Him an hundred forty and four thousand, having HIS FATHER'S NAME WRITTEN IN THEIR FOREHEADS," in distinction to those who, in Rev. 13:16 take "the mark of the beast". The mark of the beast denotes that those who bear it have been filled with the nature, spirit, ways, doctrines and idolatry of the bestial system. Therefore the mark which these 144,000 bear denotes that they are not defiled with the bestial spirit and shame and are in every respect cleansed, perfected, and made partakers of the Father's nature. I have no ability to believe that the Father's name in the forehead is anything more or less than the MIND OF CHRIST. Though we read many explanations of the mark of the beast, it is my conviction that it would be safe to lay them all aside in the understanding that the MARK OF THE BEAST is nothing more or less than the mind of the serpent in man. The carnal mind, which is everywhere evident in the religious systems, as in government, commerce, and every other institution spawned by man, is the enemy of God and had its beginning with the serpent in Eden. Neither the divine mark nor the devil's mark can be a visible thing. Both are symbols bespeaking a nature POSSESSING THE MIND and in turn MANIFESTING THROUGH THE OUTWARD ACTIONS of men.
SEALED IN THE FOREHEAD
Another wonderful picture of the working of God in His elect is found in Rev. 7:1-4. "After these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the SEAL OF THE LIVING GOD: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have SEALED THE SERVANTS OF GOD IN THEIR FOREHEADS."
A seal is defined to be an instrument of sealing, that which "is used by individuals, corporate bodies, and states, for making impressions on wax, upon instruments of writing, as an evidence of their authenticity." The original word in this text is defined, "A seal, i.e., a signet ring; a mark, stamp, badge; a token, a pledge." The verb signifies: "To secure to any one, to make sure; to set a seal or mark upon anything in token of its being genuine or approved; to attest, to confirm, to establish, to distinguish by a mark." With these definitions as a basis, we compare Gen. 17:11 with Rom. 4:11, and Rev. 7:3 with Eze. 9:4, and find that the words "token", "sign", "seal", and "mark" ARE USED IN THE BIBLE AS SYNONYMOUS TERMS. Thus, the "SEAL of God in the forehead", the "Father's NAME in the forehead", and the "MARK of the beast in the forehead" all indicate the same principle at work. In this case it is not some literal mark to be made in the flesh, but a state of being in mind and nature which serves as a "mark of distinction" between those who are HIS and those who are of the beastly system of the world.
The symbolism of the sealing is taken from Ezekiel, chapter nine. Six "men", agents of God's judgment against the rebellious city of Jerusalem, are seen with slaughter weapons in their hands, but amongst them there appears a seventh figure, clothed with linen, having a writer's inkhorn at his side. This man is ordered to go through the doomed city first, and set a MARK ON THE FOREHEAD of all who SIGH AND CRY for the abominations done in Jerusalem. History records that when, shortly after this vision, Jerusalem was in fact destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, men like Jeremiah and Baruch (Jer. 45) and Ebed-melech the Ethiopian (the king's servant) were preserved (Jer. 39:15-18). Indeed, in the case of Jeremiah himself, special charge was given concerning him that he was not to be molested in any way, but was to have liberty to go or to come as he pleased (Jer. 39:11-14). Many of the poor of the land, nameless people whose poverty was the mark of their election, were likewise spared in the overthrow.
As the man with the inkhorn symbolized the care of God for His elect, and as the mark he made on the foreheads of these faithful ones WAS AS SYMBOLIC AS HIS OWN INKHORN, so the sealing of the elect in their foreheads in Revelation, chapter seven is symbolic and spiritual, and not literal and physical. How we praise God that there is a remnant, a handful of men and women in the earth today who are aware of the dreadful sham and idolatry of the modern Church systems, and these are not, as some suppose, just critics, but these are SIGHING AND CRYING CONTINUALLY BEFORE GOD because of the conditions they see. Those who are sighing and crying are giving themselves to EARNEST PRAYER because of the situation in the Church systems and these will be found to be the people who have the MIND OF CHRIST in the end. The faithful cry of these is, "YOUR Kingdom come, YOUR WILL be done in earth, as it is in heaven!" A separation has already been made in mind and heart, separation UNTO GOD, AND THESE UNDERSTAND THAT ANY EFFORT TO BUILD UP, STRENGTHEN, REJUVENATE, RENEW, OR PRESERVE THE PRESENT SYSTEM is to wander further into spiritual Babylon. Ah, the sealed ones know that this is not the time to be singing, "It is a glorious Church without spot or wrinkle," rather this is a time for sighing and crying for all the abominations about us. The man with the inkhorn was to put a mark ON THE FOREHEAD of the men who sighed and cried for the abominations that prevailed in the temple of that day. And come the day of judgment, everything was destroyed utterly EXCEPT THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAD THE MARK OF GOD IN THEIR FOREHEADS. The whole system was demolished! Oh, how dreadful it is that so few today have any thought for the mind of Christ or the perfect will of God or conformation to the image of God! Christians now as always would willingly do GOD'S WILL if they did not have to give up their OWN, and they would willingly put on the mind of Christ if it did not mean that their own carnal mind with all its fleshly purposes would have to be crucified! But praise God, HE has a people, those marked by HIS SPIRIT, a little flock, for those who sit with Christ to reign in the Kingdom of God are to be a very small company, but be very sure of this, they will ALL have died to the carnal mind and will have partaken of the MIND OF CHRIST

 

[Floatingaxe]

The mark of the beast made its first appearance in the Garden of Eden. Our eyes behold its presence with the understanding of these words: "Now the serpent was more subtle than ANY BEAST of the field which the Lord God had made" (Gen. 3:1). The picture here goes beyond a slithering snake in the grass. Even the dullest and most unimaginative mind catches the thought that the true character involved here is "that old serpent, the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole earth" (Rev. 12:9). This problem of a mark by the beast is something man has been faced with ever since that fateful day in Eden. In Gen. 2:15 we read how "the Lord God took the man, and put him into the Garden of Eden to dress it and to KEEP (guard) it." These words tell us that there was not only a beast (the serpent) in the earth in that hour, but there was a beastly spirit and a bestial system already waiting to place its mark upon Adam and his Garden. Of all the bestial kingdom "the serpent was more subtle than any BEAST of the field which the Lord God had made."
The serpent was called a BEAST, and was not dwelling alone, but was the most subtle of the whole bestial realm, the great dictator of the bestial kingdom, and the mind of the serpent IS THE MIND OF THE BESTIAL SYSTEM. In the fall of man the mind was involved, for there was an appeal made to the mind, to be as gods KNOWING good and evil. Likewise the hand was involved, for it speaks of the outer action of participation as they reached forth and TOOK of the forbidden fruit. In Revelation, again, the hand and the mind are brought under the mark of the beast - under the influence that brings forth an expression of the inappropriate behavior with animals character, the image of the bestial system. Adam, made in the image and likeness of God, exchanged that blessed realm for that which pertains to the bestial kingdom. And man in the natural today is most bestial except when he is controlled by the Spirit of God. Man, in his imagery, is corrupted into the similitude of beasts, believes he evolved as such, therefore the manifestation of his character is rooted in the nature of the bestial realm.
The thing of greatest importance here is the awful fact that, before ever man's HAND was extended and the transgression committed, that old serpent, the king of the bestial system, the devil, had IMPARTED HIS MIND TO THEM. The MARK OF THE BEAST was in their hearts, in their MINDS, and in their FOREHEADS, and what they did afterward was the MARK OF THE BEAST in their HANDS. It is not difficult to see that the things which men are doing today and have done in ages past are but the MANIFESTATION of that which is in their minds, for, "As a man THINKS in his heart, so is he" (Prov. 23:7) and "a good man out of the good treasure of the heart brings forth good things; and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things" (Mat. 12:34-35). The mark of the beast that appears IN THE HAND (outward actions) is the direct result of the mark of the beast IN THE FOREHEAD (mind, nature). This is the mind that inspires the ever increasing confusion and violence that is running rampant among all nations.
From the day of the fall in Eden even unto this hour man has borne the imprint of the satanic mind, the nature of the serpent, the MARK OF THE BEAST. That mark IN HIS MIND has been manifested in everything he has set HIS HAND to do. The whole bestial system is one that has filled the world with wars and rumors of wars, greed, hatred, bloodshed, and oppression. Out from this bestial nature has emerged every imaginable devilish perversion. And as a result of the bestial system the mind of Christ has been replaced with the carnal mind to bring about a form of godliness devoid of power or reality, but filled with empty ritual and ceremony, static creeds and doctrines, and a confusion of human ideas and methods that stagger the imagination.
Revelation, chapters thirteen and fourteen belong to each other and should be read and studied together. The neglect of this principle has caused much mischief in modern times. If many present day writers and preachers had set THE MARK OF THE BEAST of chapter thirteen against THE MARK OF THE FATHER'S NAME on the foreheads of the saints described in chapter fourteen, we would have had less of frightful and ghastly events so confidently foretold in books and pamphlets so readily devoured by precious Christians highly susceptible to prophetic sensationalism.
It must be obvious to every spiritual mind that the writing of the Father's name in the foreheads of those standing on mount Zion is a SPIRITUAL WORK. Zion represents the very highest position attainable in the Kingdom of God. From the literal mount Zion David and the kings of Israel reigned gloriously, and the Ark of God rested there all through the reign of David and for several years afterward until the temple was completed by Solomon. Mount Zion, the hill of David the king, was the highest pinnacle of glory attainable in Israel. But that Zion was only a faint shadow of THE ZION TO WHICH WE ARE COME (Heb. 12:18-22). David was king over natural Israel. Christ is King over spiritual Israel. David dwelt on the natural mount Zion. Therefore Christ dwells upon the spiritual mount Zion, And this spiritual mount Zion is composed of those who reach the very highest pinnacle attainable in the Kingdom of God: those who, like king David of old are "a man after Mine own heart, which shall fulfill ALL MY WILL" (Acts 13:22). This Mount Zion Company is the ruling class, the overcomers of whom it is written: "To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne" (Rev. 3:21). These are the Kings and Priests unto God, after the order of Melchizedek, those who have attained to the highest postion of honor and might and true greatness in the Kingdom of God. It comprises those who are such as have gone all the way with their Lord and shall now rule with Christ upon His throne over God's infinite realm for evermore.
These are they of whom it is written, "And I looked, and lo, a Lamb stood on mount Zion, and with Him an hundred forty and four thousand, having HIS FATHER'S NAME WRITTEN IN THEIR FOREHEADS," in distinction to those who, in Rev. 13:16 take "the mark of the beast". The mark of the beast denotes that those who bear it have been filled with the nature, spirit, ways, doctrines and idolatry of the bestial system. Therefore the mark which these 144,000 bear denotes that they are not defiled with the bestial spirit and shame and are in every respect cleansed, perfected, and made partakers of the Father's nature. I have no ability to believe that the Father's name in the forehead is anything more or less than the MIND OF CHRIST. Though we read many explanations of the mark of the beast, it is my conviction that it would be safe to lay them all aside in the understanding that the MARK OF THE BEAST is nothing more or less than the mind of the serpent in man. The carnal mind, which is everywhere evident in the religious systems, as in government, commerce, and every other institution spawned by man, is the enemy of God and had its beginning with the serpent in Eden. Neither the divine mark nor the devil's mark can be a visible thing. Both are symbols bespeaking a nature POSSESSING THE MIND and in turn MANIFESTING THROUGH THE OUTWARD ACTIONS of men.
SEALED IN THE FOREHEAD
Another wonderful picture of the working of God in His elect is found in Rev. 7:1-4. "After these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the SEAL OF THE LIVING GOD: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have SEALED THE SERVANTS OF GOD IN THEIR FOREHEADS."
A seal is defined to be an instrument of sealing, that which "is used by individuals, corporate bodies, and states, for making impressions on wax, upon instruments of writing, as an evidence of their authenticity." The original word in this text is defined, "A seal, i.e., a signet ring; a mark, stamp, badge; a token, a pledge." The verb signifies: "To secure to any one, to make sure; to set a seal or mark upon anything in token of its being genuine or approved; to attest, to confirm, to establish, to distinguish by a mark." With these definitions as a basis, we compare Gen. 17:11 with Rom. 4:11, and Rev. 7:3 with Eze. 9:4, and find that the words "token", "sign", "seal", and "mark" ARE USED IN THE BIBLE AS SYNONYMOUS TERMS. Thus, the "SEAL of God in the forehead", the "Father's NAME in the forehead", and the "MARK of the beast in the forehead" all indicate the same principle at work. In this case it is not some literal mark to be made in the flesh, but a state of being in mind and nature which serves as a "mark of distinction" between those who are HIS and those who are of the beastly system of the world.
The symbolism of the sealing is taken from Ezekiel, chapter nine. Six "men", agents of God's judgment against the rebellious city of Jerusalem, are seen with slaughter weapons in their hands, but amongst them there appears a seventh figure, clothed with linen, having a writer's inkhorn at his side. This man is ordered to go through the doomed city first, and set a MARK ON THE FOREHEAD of all who SIGH AND CRY for the abominations done in Jerusalem. History records that when, shortly after this vision, Jerusalem was in fact destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, men like Jeremiah and Baruch (Jer. 45) and Ebed-melech the Ethiopian (the king's servant) were preserved (Jer. 39:15-18). Indeed, in the case of Jeremiah himself, special charge was given concerning him that he was not to be molested in any way, but was to have liberty to go or to come as he pleased (Jer. 39:11-14). Many of the poor of the land, nameless people whose poverty was the mark of their election, were likewise spared in the overthrow.
As the man with the inkhorn symbolized the care of God for His elect, and as the mark he made on the foreheads of these faithful ones WAS AS SYMBOLIC AS HIS OWN INKHORN, so the sealing of the elect in their foreheads in Revelation, chapter seven is symbolic and spiritual, and not literal and physical. How we praise God that there is a remnant, a handful of men and women in the earth today who are aware of the dreadful sham and idolatry of the modern Church systems, and these are not, as some suppose, just critics, but these are SIGHING AND CRYING CONTINUALLY BEFORE GOD because of the conditions they see. Those who are sighing and crying are giving themselves to EARNEST PRAYER because of the situation in the Church systems and these will be found to be the people who have the MIND OF CHRIST in the end. The faithful cry of these is, "YOUR Kingdom come, YOUR WILL be done in earth, as it is in heaven!" A separation has already been made in mind and heart, separation UNTO GOD, AND THESE UNDERSTAND THAT ANY EFFORT TO BUILD UP, STRENGTHEN, REJUVENATE, RENEW, OR PRESERVE THE PRESENT SYSTEM is to wander further into spiritual Babylon. Ah, the sealed ones know that this is not the time to be singing, "It is a glorious Church without spot or wrinkle," rather this is a time for sighing and crying for all the abominations about us. The man with the inkhorn was to put a mark ON THE FOREHEAD of the men who sighed and cried for the abominations that prevailed in the temple of that day. And come the day of judgment, everything was destroyed utterly EXCEPT THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAD THE MARK OF GOD IN THEIR FOREHEADS. The whole system was demolished! Oh, how dreadful it is that so few today have any thought for the mind of Christ or the perfect will of God or conformation to the image of God! Christians now as always would willingly do GOD'S WILL if they did not have to give up their OWN, and they would willingly put on the mind of Christ if it did not mean that their own carnal mind with all its fleshly purposes would have to be crucified! But praise God, HE has a people, those marked by HIS SPIRIT, a little flock, for those who sit with Christ to reign in the Kingdom of God are to be a very small company, but be very sure of this, they will ALL have died to the carnal mind and will have partaken of the MIND OF CHRIST

All that to say what? Not all have the mind of Christ. Only the redeemed.

 

[brinny]

no. our sentence is damnation. it is because we have no sense of the enormity of our sin or the offense against a holy God. It is only through crying out to God in repentence, realizing the enormity of our sins, and that we deserve damnation, that we can accept the remedy, His only begotten Son.

Otherwise, yes. Everybody is going to hell.

Interested in more details about this deserving of damnation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwbps9k5Dj0


The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up. The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up. He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them. -1 Sam. 2:6-8

Have you seen what has been called the "pillars of the earth"?


The Hubble Space Telescope produced this picture (below) of the “Pillars of Creation” in the Eagle Nebula back in 1995, and since then it has become a classic space image. The towering clouds of cool gas and dust veil stars in the nebula, which is 6,500 light-years away In the constellation Serpens. The height of the tallest pillar is about 4 light-years, or 24 trillion miles. (for those of you clueless to "light-years", it means the distance it takes for light to travel for one year. Light travels 186,000 miles per second. There are 60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour, 24 hours in a day, and 365 days in a year. Multiply these together to get 31,500,000 seconds in a year. Multiply that times 186,000 miles per second and you get 5,850,000,000,000 miles—about 6 trillion miles. It takes about 8 minutes for light to travel from our sun to our earth.) Our entire solar system would be just a speck on this picture.

The Pillars of Creation take up just a small area in the Spitzer Space Telescope’s view of the Eagle Nebula. In this picture, a small yellow outline shows the area taken up by the Hubble picture. The Hubble view is repeated in the larger inset picture to help you get your bearings.

 

[enoch son]

This will not be read because it what God said about His people (all His people)
Acts 10;15 "And a voice spake unto him agian the second time, WHAT GOD HATH CLEANSED, THAT CALL NOT THOU COMMON." (OR UNCLEAN)
So for you who judge others you are calling God a liar.
And it is written that Jesus took all jugdement so for you who are jugding you are calling God a liar and Jesus a failure.

 

[brinny]

This will not be read because it what God said about His people (all His people)
Acts 10;15 "And a voice spake unto him agian the second time, WHAT GOD HATH CLEANSED, THAT CALL NOT THOU COMMON." (OR UNCLEAN)
So for you who judge others you are calling God a liar.
And it is written that Jesus took all jugdement so for you who are jugding you are calling God a liar and Jesus a failure.

It is what God, the Alpha and the Omega, the Holy One, the Father of Lights said Himself. He is holy. No one is righteous. Not one. That's why the chasm developed in the Garden of Eden. That's why He no longer walked with His creation in the cool of the day, in a garden, and why they were cast out and why they surely were accursed and were to die.

There is a Remedy for this deadly malady...this eternal separation from our Abba....let those who have ears hear...it is only through Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God, the God of the living. It is only in realizing the enormity of our sin, and that we assuredly deserve damnation, and accept the price Jesus the Christ paid for our sins, thus cleansing us, that we will not be condemned to damnation, and only that. Otherwise we are left to our own devices. In essence, God says "As you wish."

There's nothing to fear in watching the video.....is there?

 

[DeborahsSong]

To HEisGoodalways, thank you for all the love and time that went into your most recent post. I love the quote form Acts 13:22. As to weeping and petitioning God, one must be careful or it can just be a work of the flesh. If the Spirit leads in that manner, fine. If not, praise for what God has done seems more effective under the new covenant.

Here's a gift to you. It's something that I'm working on in a book. Check out in Hebrews the passage that says the children partook of flesh and blood. Check out in Genesis what Adam said of Eve when he first saw her.

 

[Rajni]

This is insane. The Bible is God's Word, and God's Word says hell is a literal place and that those who don't believe in Jesus must spend the eternity in hell. God loves all man, this is true. But God must send unbelievers into hell for eternity. He can never lie and He can never refrain from the judgement. That is the way things are. If you don't believe that, you are contradicting the Bible. If you contradict the Bible, you CONTRADICT GOD!!!

Again, which bible? Perhaps you missed my response (post 137) to your previous post, which addresses this very issue.


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[Rajni]

Prove that it is talking about the wicked.

Philippians 2:10-11

...that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
​

I don't see any exemptions in that verse.

Now, would you be so kind as to answer the question you were asked at least twice before: Where does it say that "every knee will bow in horror, under duress, knowing they've chosen poorly"?

Thanks in advance!

.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

My conclusion based on both the word and inner witness is no.... not all are going to heaven. I think there is insufficient data to pin down exactly what hell is and the part of the lake of fire, but the existence cannot be denied, nor can it be denied that people will be going there.
I get a very strong check in my spirit when I think along the terms that there is no hell and that everyone is going to heaven.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

All ultimately, feasibly, CAN be reconciled to God because in the end, all will AGREE voluntarily that their sentence of damnation bes just and righteous, that they deserve it, and all will voluntarily bow to Christ. If God refuses to "violate free will" to "force" people to be saved here in this life, and scripture states that God never changes, then it stands to reason that God will not "violate free will" in order to FORCE every knee to bow and every tongue to confess that Jesus Christ bes Lord in that "great day", EITHER. Thus IF every knee bows and every tongue so confesses, it stands to reason that this MUST be done voluntarily as the result of all these lost souls coming into agreement with God concerning His just sentence upon sin. Coming into agreement with God concerning sin represents the first stage of repentance and evidences active metanoia--changing or turning of the mind/heart. The CARNAL mind bes at enmity against God and cannot be subject to the law of God, thus the carnal mind cannot acknowledge the justness of God's sentence against sin. Something else must therefore prompt this -- the active agency of the Holy Spirit since nothing inside a lost carnal sinner can possibly account for it.

The beauty of this awareness? It works whether one believes in "free" will OR NOT. It preserves God's sovereignty in tandem with His character and heart of love, not in spite of it. It fulfills every requirement of scripture and satisfies every means of God's justice AND His mercy operating together wherein as always, mercy triumphs over justice. And it inadvertently separates the wheat from the tares, for it reveals who would be galled and offended by the suggestion that Christ Jesus actually came into this world to save SINNERS, of whom Moriah indeed bes chiefmost.

 

[Floatingaxe]

This will not be read because it what God said about His people (all His people)
Acts 10;15 "And a voice spake unto him agian the second time, WHAT GOD HATH CLEANSED, THAT CALL NOT THOU COMMON." (OR UNCLEAN)
So for you who judge others you are calling God a liar.
And it is written that Jesus took all jugdement so for you who are jugding you are calling God a liar and Jesus a failure.

We, who are known by His name are called to judge for truth. Inclusionism is false and based on a lie. Take that to the bank.

Taking scripture of of context is their modus operandi.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Philippians 2:10-11

...that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
​

I don't see any exemptions in that verse.

Now, would you be so kind as to answer the question you were asked at least twice before: Where does it say that "every knee will bow in horror, under duress, knowing they've chosen poorly"?

Thanks in advance!

.

The wicked aren't going to like bowing to the Lord and Saviour because He isn't their Lord and Saviour. But He is God, and in His presence it shall be done. No one can stand in His glory, especially the wicked. It won't be in love and personal adoration, that the lost will bow--it will be in utter fear and acquiescence. I wouldn't want to be one of them, and I am not looking forward to witnessing it, either!

 

[Floatingaxe]

My conclusion based on both the word and inner witness is no.... not all are going to heaven. I think there is insufficient data to pin down exactly what hell is and the part of the lake of fire, but the existence cannot be denied, nor can it be denied that people will be going there.
I get a very strong check in my spirit when I think along the terms that there is no hell and that everyone is going to heaven.

I give praise to Jesus Christ right now for answered prayer!

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

My conclusion based on both the word and inner witness is no.... not all are going to heaven. I think there is insufficient data to pin down exactly what hell is and the part of the lake of fire, but the existence cannot be denied, nor can it be denied that people will be going there.
I get a very strong check in my spirit when I think along the terms that there is no hell and that everyone is going to heaven.

The Mormons get a burning in their bosom, too -- or so they say -- which tells them God has answered them or speaks to them.
Anyway, it can respect if you have a different conclusion from Moriah on this. You demonstrate the ability to ask tough questions and search for answers, just hold onto that and God will do the rest. He promises to lead us into ALL truth -- while letting us know we all see through a glass darkly while here and won't know in full until we stand face to face with Him -- and doubtless that means there will be many surprises ahead in that day for all of us.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The Mormons get a burning in their bosom, too -- or so they say -- which tells them God has answered them or speaks to them.
Anyway, it can respect if you have a different conclusion from Moriah on this. You demonstrate the ability to ask tough questions and search for answers, just hold onto that and God will do the rest. He promises to lead us into ALL truth -- while letting us know we all see through a glass darkly while here and won't know in full until we stand face to face with Him -- and doubtless that means there will be many surprises ahead in that day for all of us.

Thanks for your input and strong support of your position. Oddly, the questions still stand and in large part they have not been answered to my satisfaction. I put the prayer to the Lord in this manner "Lord, this is my complaint. Show me the truth and reveal to me how this can be so." I put that out and within minutes began to receive spiritual information and I know the answer is there. I do not know if this works the same for everyone else. But I always receive an "assurance" in the spirit first, and then over time as I inspect the scriptures the assurance is clothed with words and logic. I know I have the answer. I am so looking forward to that truth floating up within my spirit as the word begins to clothe that belief.
Dids

 

[enoch son]

We, who are known by His name are called to judge for truth. Inclusionism is false and based on a lie. Take that to the bank.

Taking scripture of of context is their modus operandi.

And you answer the post with words from ones mouth without scripture. Now thats calling the pot black.

 

[enoch son]

It is what God, the Alpha and the Omega, the Holy One, the Father of Lights said Himself. He is holy. No one is righteous. Not one. That's why the chasm developed in the Garden of Eden. That's why He no longer walked with His creation in the cool of the day, in a garden, and why they were cast out and why they surely were accursed and were to die.

There is a Remedy for this deadly malady...this eternal separation from our Abba....let those who have ears hear...it is only through Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God, the God of the living. It is only in realizing the enormity of our sin, and that we assuredly deserve damnation, and accept the price Jesus the Christ paid for our sins, thus cleansing us, that we will not be condemned to damnation, and only that. Otherwise we are left to our own devices. In essence, God says "As you wish."

There's nothing to fear in watching the video.....is there?

Not one ver. only the words of man and not God.

 

[enoch son]

The only bridge that Jesus bridged was the bridge over the punishment we would receive had we not accepted His free gift of salvation. It is where everyone is headed without Jesus.

Take the free gift! But do not preach that those who refuse it get to cross that bridge of the cross. They don't, and preaching deception is a sin that will not go unpunished.[/b]

Thats funny all I read is a price your putting on it.