Is Ellen White the final interpreter of scripture for SDA?

[woobadooba]

I agree. Not only that, but also the quote from the White Estate says that God hadn't originally intended to to make the Israelites wander in the wilderness for 40 years. The problem with that argument is that God clearly announced that judgment when He decided to delay their entrance into the promised land. When He changed His mind, He told them; He left no room for speculation about conditional prophecy.

Could it be possible for one to say, "I intended to do this...", while knowing that it wouldn't happen that way, and thus do something other than what he intended to do without marring the integrity of his statement? Hence God may intend to do something, but we must also do our part in allowing it to happen as He had intended. God's word does not lose its integrity here; rather, this shows us that we serve a just God.

For example, the Bible makes it clear that God would have all men to be saved, yet, we know that all men won't be saved. But does this stop God from reaching out to people that He knows will be eternally lost? It certainly didn't stop Christ from allowing Judas to be one of the 12 while knowing that he would ultimately betray Him. Truth is, God knows where they will stand in the end, but still gives these people an opportunity to be one with Him because that is what love does.

There would be no sense at all in a prophet saying God would have all men to be saved while knowing God won't save all men, unless we looked at it in this way.

 

[OntheDL]

Kind of typical of the poor reasoning of many Adventists. Attack the Bible or in this case Christ when their chosen prophet has false prophecies.

I wasn't asking you the question therefore I wasn't seeking your answer. But if you would, you should read my post carefully. It was a hyperthetical question. I wasn't attacking the bible or Jesus. I have not questioned the validity of the Word using progressive reasoning like you did. I was merely questioning the integrity of the logic.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

I wasn't asking you the question therefore I wasn't seeking your answer. But if you would, you should read my post carefully. It was a hyperthetical question. I wasn't attacking the bible or Jesus. I have not questioned the validity of the Word using progressive reasoning like you did. I was merely questioning the integrity of the logic.

You mean your statement was meant as a response to one particular line of logic even though the verse you refer to can have multiple ways to be logically applied. You may not think you have attacked the Bible but by your use of only one method of interpretation, a method that can't possibly work that is what you have done.

 

[Sophia7]

Could it be possible for one to say, "I intended to do this...", while knowing that it wouldn't happen that way, and thus do something other than what he intended to do without marring the integrity of his statement? Hence God may intend to do something, but we must also do our part in allowing it to happen as He had intended. God's word does not lose its integrity here; rather, this shows us that we serve a just God.

For example, the Bible makes it clear that God would have all men to be saved, yet, we know that all men won't be saved. But does this stop God from reaching out to people that He knows will be eternally lost? It certainly didn't stop Christ from allowing Judas to be one of the 12 while knowing that he would ultimately betray Him. Truth is, God knows where they will stand in the end, but still gives these people an opportunity to be one with Him because that is what love does.

There would be no sense at all in a prophet saying God would have all men to be saved while knowing God won't save all men, unless we looked at it in this way.

The fact that God wants everyone to be saved isn't a prediction that it will happen, though. There's a big difference. The Bible makes it clear that not everyone will be saved.

As far as Judas, allowing him to be one of the 12 wasn't a conditional prophecy, either. Jesus never said that Judas would do something that didn't happen. He predicted who would betray Him, and His prediction came true.

 

[woobadooba]

The fact that God wants everyone to be saved isn't a prediction that it will happen, though. There's a big difference. The Bible makes it clear that not everyone will be saved.

As far as Judas, allowing him to be one of the 12 wasn't a conditional prophecy, either. Jesus never said that Judas would do something that didn't happen. He predicted who would betray Him, and His prediction came true.

My point has to do with what God intends to do.

I was referring to the idea that the Lord would have come had God's people been ready to receive Him.

Do you think it was a lie for Ellen White to express this idea?

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Woob wrote:

I was referring to the idea that the Lord would have come had God's people been ready to receive Him.

Even if large portions had never heard the gospel?

 

[woobadooba]

Woob wrote:


Even if large portions had never heard the gospel?

The point is that they weren't ready, and God knew that. Yet, if they were ready, He would have returned.

God has a designated time in which He will return. Nothing can change that time. But when He does return His people will be ready to receive Him. Thus the Lord will return when His people are ready to receive Him. It's really an issue omniscience.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

So what is your point that EGW gave a prophecy that God knew was not ready to take effect anyway so that it is ok that EGW gave a prophecy that was completely wrong because if they had been ready which God knew they weren't that He would have come which He knew He was not going to do at that time anyway. It makes no sense.

 

[reddogs]

The Pharisee's refused to and didn't believe the prophecies unfolding right before their very eyes and tried to destroy and kill the proof, and with the end times prophecies and especially the falling away apostasy being fulfilled right before our very eyes, still there are many that are spiritually blind.......

 

[NightEternal]

Very important topic. The crucial issue facing us as a church right now.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

For example, the Bible makes it clear that God would have all men to be saved, yet, we know that all men won't be saved.

We DON'T know that. We theologize that, but we don't KNOW.
For my money, since when did God fail to accomplish HIS will and achieve HIS purpose?
IF "free will" is the issue, you tell ME who WILLS to go to the Lake of Fire and be annihilated. "Oh they chose it by default". O really? Then who lights the lake and pushes them in against their desire to live? "God will not force anyone to accept Him." No, He won't force anyone to LIFE but He WILL force them to DEATH? Does THIS sound like the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ? NOT TO ME. That's why I reject that scenario.

IF "free will" ever WAS the issue, and if those destroyed in the end are deemed destroyed because they presumably "chose to be" (by proxy or by default, that is, reading their moment-by-moment life choices as One Big Bad Choice which NONE of them ever intended to make) then it stands to reason that at the point they are destroyed, THEY CEASE TO BE, correct? They are no more. What, then, is to stop God from re-creating them as they were MEANT to be without sin? EITHER WAY the "sin them" is destroyed. EITHER WAY God's supposed "justice" is fulfilled/accomplished (laying aside for a moment the sticky issue that He just so happened to have already fulfilled/accomplished it on the Cross...) ... so maybe God's STRANGE ACT really WILL be STRANGE -- maybe it will NOT be simply what people have been predicting He will do for centuries.

Praise God! Thank You Lord for giving me clarity of mind to get that written down and holding back the forces of Darkness even for just ten minutes so I could make use of human language!!!

Truth is, God knows where they will stand in the end, but still gives these people an opportunity to be one with Him because that is what love does.

AND WE CAN KNOW TOO because the Scripture states CLEARLY where ALL will "stand" in the END: "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD to the glory of God the Father -- whether ON the earth, ABOVE the earth, OR UNDER THE EARTH."

He's got it ALL covered. We may not SEE it right here & now in our lifetimes but HE HAS IT ALL COVERED. Total, complete Reconciliation is not just a theological pipe dream; it is the inevitability of the God we serve who is omniscient AND omnipotent.

There would be no sense at all in a prophet saying God would have all men to be saved while knowing God won't save all men, unless we looked at it in this way.

Good! Starting to see. KEEP LOOKING!!!

 

[reddogs]

For some yes, for others no... she indicated that she should not be....

Since most of her writings were based on scripture, it would be hard to separate.

 

[OldStudent]

On many topics we don't use Paul or John as the "final say." The Bible is not a book - it's a library. We are to compare and reconcile the thoughts of available sources then synthesize rational concepts by stitching their thoughts together – as is suppose to happen in any field of research. Some authors are specialists in a field and become major contributors to our knowledge in those appropriate fields. Mrs. White, serving in a special point in history and soteriology, must rightly take her place as a limited specialist in selected areas of wisdom and practice. For a significant part of her work she best serves as accompaniment behind the singers of scripture.

 

[JDMiowa]

Quotes from Ellen G. White



"In regard to infallibility, I NEVER claimed it; God ALONE is Infallible." Selected Messages, Book One, pp 415 and 37

"Let no one come to the conclusion that there is no more truth to be revealed. The diligent, prayerful seeker for truth will find precious rays of light yet to shine forth from the word of God." Counsels on Sabbath School Work, p. 34

"There is no excuse for anyone in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make an error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. Review and Herald, December 20,1892

"We cannot hold that a position once taken, an idea once advocated, is not, under any circumstances, to be relinquished. There is but One who is infallible --- He is the way, the truth, and the life.

"If the pillars of our faith will not stand the test of investigation, it is time we knew it." Testimonies to Ministers, pp 105 and 107

"The Bible and the Bible alone, is our creed, the sole bond of union; all who bow to this holy Word will be in harmony . . . Man is fallible, but God's Word is infallible.

"We have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn. God and heaven alone are infallible. Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed.

"In regard to infallibility, I never claimed it; God alone is infallible. His word is true, and in Him is no variableness, or shadow of turning." Selected Messages, Book One, pp. 416 and 37.

"Our position and faith is in the Bible. . . . And never do we want any soul to bring in the Testimonies ahead of the Bible." Evangelism, p. 256

“We are not to accept the opinion of commentators as the voice of God; they are erring mortals like ourselves. God has given reasoning powers to us as well as to them. We should make the Bible its own expositor.

“We must study the truth for ourselves. No man should be relied upon to think for us. No matter who he is, or in what position he may be placed, we are not to look upon any man as a criterion for us. Testimonies to Ministers, pp. 106 and 110

“Whatever may be man’s intellectual advancement, let him not for a moment think that there is no need of thorough and continuous searching of Scripture for greater light. As a people we are called individually to be students of prophecy. We must watch with earnestness that we may discern any ray of light which God shall present to us. We are to catch the first gleamings of truth; and through prayerful study, clearer light may be obtained, which can be brought to others.

“Some of our leading brethren have frequently taken their position on the wrong side: and if God would send a message and wait for these older brethren to open the way for its advancement, it would never reach the people.

“The rebuke of the Lord will rest upon those who would bar the way, that clearer light shall not come to the people. . . . Let no one run the risk of interposing between the people and the message of heaven.” Gospel Workers, pp 300, 303, and 304.

A spirit of pharisaism has been coming in upon the people who claim to believe the truth for these last days. They are self-satisfied. They have said, “We have the truth. There is no more light for the people of God. But we are not safe when we take the position that we will not accept anything else than that upon which we have settled as truth. We should take the Bible, and investigate it closely for ourselves. We should dig in the mine of God’s word for truth.” Review and Herald, June 18, 1888.

We need to begin all over again. . . . Errors may be hoary with age; but age dos not make error truth, nor truth error. Altogether too long have the old customs and habits been followed. The Lord would now have every idea that is false put away from teachers and students. We are not at liberty to teach that which shall meet the world’s standard or the standard of the church, simply because it is the custom to do so.” Testimonies for the Church, vol 6, p. 142.

 

[Guitaroman]

this is true. ULTRA conservative are afarid of those not of there stripe.

I've heard of this before, but can you give me an example of what ultra conservative would be. Could you also give me an example of what ultra liberal Christians are?

The Pharisee's refused to and didn't believe the prophecies unfolding right before their very eyes and tried to destroy and kill the proof, and with the end times prophecies and especially the falling away apostasy being fulfilled right before our very eyes, still there are many that are spiritually blind.......

To true and this part right here is important to Christians as a whole if you believe the holy bible.

 

[JDMiowa]

I've heard of this before, but can you give me an example of what ultra conservative would be. Could you also give me an example of what ultra liberal Christians are?


To true and this part right here is important to Christians as a whole if you believe the holy bible.

An,"Example" is the total rejection of a Wednesday crucafiction without a fair examination of the facts. Also refusing to debate the abortion issue and performing elective abortions in SDA hospital's.

 

[David Conklin]

>An,"Example" is the total rejection of a Wednesday crucafiction without a fair examination of the facts.

Wrote paper on a related subject in grad school--didn't happen.

>Also refusing to debate the abortion issue and performing elective abortions in SDA hospital's.

Assumes facst that aren't in evidence.

 

[stinsonmarri]

Is Ellen White the final interpreter of scripture for SDA? The simple answer is she is not an interpreter of Scripture for SDA at all. Secondly she is not a prophet but a messenger. Thirdly all of her writings comes the historical thoughts and views of her time. EGW as did others brought in some their old view from their church. As she became older and wiser she realize that the church she help to establish had lost its way. She warn them not to accept her writings unless they can be proven by the Word of ELOHIM. It is proven in all cases when she said the angel spoke to her or she was shone things by her accompanying angel. This always is already found in the Bible. JDMiowa quotes from her is what all SDA should accept. EGW was not the only messenger during her time and she is not the only messenger before the SAVIOR returns. Acts 2:16-18 is the Scriptures that proves this point. The final messengers are the five virgins namely the 144,000. This group will bring in the great multitude during the Time of Trouble and then YAHSHUA will come. I urge all who want to finish the work that Hiram Edison, Joseph Bates, James White, Ellen Harmon White, Jones and Waggoner receive from the ALMIGHTY FATHER then study the Word. Read the warnings EGW gave according to the Bible. She stated in her last days to study Daniel and Revelation. When we do we will have a revival as never before. We become like an army to witness. Those whom ELOHIM has selected to be apart of the 144,000 that EGW first saw who John saw and explain first, will have that extra oil of the HOLY SPIRIT to reap the final harvest-together they will be the remnant of ELOHIM knowing HIS Commandments and having the TESTIMONY of YAHSHUA!

Happy Sabbath and a prayer for all of the grieving families in Boston,
stinsonmarri

 

[JDMiowa]

>Also refusing to debate the abortion issue and performing elective abortions in SDA hospital's.

Assumes facst that aren't in evidence.

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April 2013
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Abortion & The Seventh Day Adventist Church
It is true, SDA hospitals perform elective abortions...​

I know....it is hard to believe, but sadly, it is true....abortions, ELECTIVE abortions, are done in Seventh Day Adventists hospitals, and this has been going on since the 70's! If I had not heard it with my own ears, I would have had a really hard time believing it...this is how we found out.

We were at Southern Missionary College (called Southern College, today), and it was a Sabbath afternoon, 1981. We were told that the General Conference President - Neil Wilson, (the father of the current GC President - Ted Wilson) was going to be speaking in the afternoon at the College Church, and holding a Question & Answer forum afterwards. We had never heard him speak, so we decided to attend.

After he spoke, someone from the audience raised their hand and asked the question, "Why do our Seventh Day Adventist hospitals perform abortions?" Al and I looked at each other in shock and disbelief, we though, "Surely, OUR church does not perform abortions!" But....Neil Wilson confirmed that the Church hospitals do perform abortions and went on to give the reason why.... He said that if the Church hospitals did not perform abortions, the women would just go to some other hospitals and get them."
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We couldn't believe our ears. That was in 1981. It has been 30 years since that time, and our hospitals are still performing abortions. But, as we talk to members of the Church, we are finding out that most members do not know this. The Church has successfully pushed this under the rug, and the members are in the dark.
This causes some pretty important questions to surface:

• Is the Sabbath commandment, the 4th commandment, somehow more important than the 6th commandment?
• Is it possible for today's Seventh Day Adventist Church to be God's peculiar Church, while their hospitals are performing abortions?
• If there is really a "Revival & Reformation" taking place within the denomination, wouldn't the Church hospitals stop doing abortions?
• What is the best way to get the Church to change their stand and their practice?

So, the purpose of this part of the website is for documentation of the fact that the SDA Church hospitals are performing abortions and for posting articles that others have written protesting abortion. Hopefully, as more and more people find out about it, they will raise their voices and demand a change. (Even though, I must say, if the Church changes its stand and its practice, because it is "forced" to, is that the kind of obedience that God wants from His Church - "forced" obedience? I don't think so....)


We have a friend who have researched this subject and has collected alot of documentation which he has shared with us, and we will upload the material here on our site. Some of the links at the bottom of this page are from Doug, - Thank you, Doug Yowell, and some we collected ourselves.

Please! Sign this petition to stop abortions in SDA hospitals!

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Online Petition by iPetitions.com ​

Adventists For Life

Abortions In Adventists Hospitals

Ellen White, Slavery & Abortion

Fetal Holocaust by Dr. Richard Hansen on Abortion

Columbia Union College & NOW

Kevin Paulson SDA Pastor Promotes Abortion

Abortion: A Moral Issue? by Richard Muller

If He's Not Alive, Why Is He Growing?

How Much Is A Fetus Worth?

Morality Campaign 1888

What Is Wrong With Abortion?

ProLife Dilemmas

Elder Colin Standish Letter - Abortion in SDA Hosp

SDA "Guidelines on Abortion" Powerful Parody

ProLife Dilemnas

ProLife Dilemna, Page 2

United Methodists -Example for SDA

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[Frenchfrye]

Ellen White is in line with scripture but she isnt the only way to interpret it. and she passes all the biblical tests of being a prophet