Is Ellen White the final interpreter of scripture for SDA?

[NightEternal]

____

 

[reddogs]

So are you saying the Gospel of Jesus Christ is not the same as Paul's and is superseded by lawlessness, God forbid? Gods will and what Jesus Christ taught are one and the same and we should follow it, Paul did not teach a different Gospel.


Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Acts 5:42
And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.



Acts 28:31
Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

1 Corinthians 1:10
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.


12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:12-23

 

[NightEternal]

Typical TSDA response. Jump the gun and brand Gospel-minded members as antinomian or purveyors of lawlessness who want to be able to sin with abandon.

Where in my post did I ever advocate lawlessness?

The pattern of ad-hominem attacks by Adventists is so predictable, I knew the antinomian charge was coming before it actually did. Usually it comes before the charge of being a Fordite (like that's a bad thing ) and after the 'new theology' slurs, but no matter.

TSDA's haven't changed thier approach of attack for years. It would be nice to have some new material to work with...

If Adventists would understand the concept of sin as a condition rather than behavioral some progress could be made. Unfortunately, the idea of earning salvation is much too appealing, no matter how subtle it is or how much they deny doing so.

They love to use catch phrases such as 'Christ working in me' or 'Christ empowering me.' What it all amounts to is an attempt to justify the heresy of sinless perfection this side of glorification. Heresy is heresy, no matter how pleasantly it is packaged or candy-coated. Doug Batchelor has done well at presenting the anti-Christ theory of sinless perfection to the masses in a subtle non-threatening way. Unfortunately, it is still the same raw legalistic poison of Joe Crews underneath.

Salvation is an accomplished fact outside of any 'commandment keeping' or 'obedience to the law' that one can offer. But Adventism has cunningly tied these things into the plan into salvation, and made the salvation they already possess contigent upon obedience. Christ has already justified and sanctified us. We have the seal of God, the Holy Spirit, who is a deposit and guarantee on our Heavenly inheritance.

Adventism has warmly embraced Roman Catholic 'process' theology that virtually denies the need for Christ's righteousness in place of our own and His perfect law-keeping as a substitute for the filthy rags we have to offer.

Luther and the reformers would spit in the face of such reasoning.

And this is where we come back to the title of the thread. Is this warped understanding of salvation the result of proper Scriptural hermeneutics from the Bible alone, taking into account Scripture as a whole? Or is it based on the Scriptural interpretation of EGW, an interpretation heavily influenced by her Weslyian, Methodist, perfectionistic heritage?

Combine Ellen's confused understanding with the proof-text method of taking verses out of thier proper context, and you have a lethal concoction resulting in a discouraging theology of works that is anything but 'good news'. How many have left the church because of thier failed efforts at 'preparing themselves' for Heaven? How many are still in the church, enslaved by an understanding of sanctification no mortal human being can live up to, much less thrive under?

And this is what happens when you give a fallible person total carte blanche in the area of doctrine and an unreasonable theological authourity they do not possess.

Gospel formula: Christ plus nothing equals salvation.

Revised Adventist formula: Christ plus my own efforts ('through Christ' of course) equals salvation.

If anyone desires to read a further in-depth treatment of the inherent problems facing Adventism in regards to the understanding of salvation, I highly recommend the book The Shaking Of Adventism by Geoffrey Paxton on the Present Truth magazine website. You can find it here:

http://www.presenttruthmag.com/7dayadventist/shaking/index.html

 

[Strongcuppajoe]

MY LORD with all the love being smashed in our faces again do you believe this do you not well I believe blah blah.. A year ago I came to the SDA church because the baptist church was falling in many areas.(mostly the same garbage here fighting and just plain lunacy) BUT with all the crud I see here I wonder why I believe in anything anymore.
This is no good and I do not think I want any more "religion" for awhile. One thing while I was pagan umm they never turned on each other like you guys have here icedragon and now with nighteternal hmm sounds like a title I would have given myself while a wiccan I wonder you really want people to not believe or just to believe what you do. I give up and for now am done.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

MY LORD with all the love being smashed in our faces again do you believe this do you not well I believe blah blah.. A year ago I came to the SDA church because the baptist church was falling in many areas.(mostly the same garbage here fighting and just plain lunacy) BUT with all the crud I see here I wonder why I believe in anything anymore.
This is no good and I do not think I want any more "religion" for awhile. One thing while I was pagan umm they never turned on each other like you guys have here icedragon and now with nighteternal hmm sounds like a title I would have given myself while a wiccan I wonder you really want people to not believe or just to believe what you do. I give up and for now am done.

and exactly why do you include me in this fight? what did I do to you?

 

[OntheDL]

If there is one thing that angers me more than anything else, it is the mindset that claims Adventist doctrine is so air-tight there is no possible way any of the fundamentals could have inherent problems.

That is making an idol out of doctrine as well as retarding progression and advancement in the worst way.

Woe is any church that claims it has a flawless doctrinal pedigree, for they will face the same fate as the arrogant Jewish nation if they stubbornly continue to preserve thier theological understanding in formaldehyde since the 1800's.

SDA's have let the 'we are the chosen remnant' pomposity reach new heights of arrogance. It has completely gone to thier heads, rendering them irrational and unreasonable. It would be funny to watch if it were not so tragic. They strut about like peacocks, swelled with pride, confident they have all of thier doctrinal ducks in a row, sneering down thier noses at those 'other' Babylonian churches.

They have placed thier faith in a system rather than in Christ Himself. Denominational patriotism taken to obscene extremes.

Of course, instead of facing reality and championing reform, the typical TSDA response is; "If you don't like it lump it-get out and leave us in our little world of denial."

Did Martin Luther abandon the legalistic, works-based Catholic church? No. Did Jesus abandon the legalistic, works-based Jewish church? No.

What they did was stay in and try to effect some change from the inside, Catholic and Jew respectively, without buying into the rhetoric and self-righteous attitude of the right-wing element. They fought the corrupt systems until thier last breath.

No, I will not leave. I have every right to hold membership in the SDA church as you. Your kind is a dying breed, and when we Evangelicals have control, the SDA church will cast off and repudiate it's legalistic past, embrace the pure gospel of Paul and Luther, and then this denomination will finally be a true Protestant church instead of a pretender trying to pass off it's justification by sanctification confusion as righteousness by faith.

Deal with it.

Having come from an Atheist and then pentacostal/evangelical background, I can say you and majority of SDAs don't see the two opposing movements that are at war. Holiness is seperation. Truth never changes nor evolves because God never changes.

The progressive thinking is nothing more than the humanistic enlightenment which is the essense of the New Age movement. You dispise the Spirit of Prophecy because it leaves no room for liberal interpretations of the bible. And in real life I can tell you most of them are just as liberal in their life styles. It justifies the things that they do.

Yeah, the traditional or historic Adventists are now the extreme minority in the SDA church. But it doesn't matter. If anyone wants popularity, he/she'd have gotten into politics. Just as God told Elijah that He reserved for Himself a remnant, God testified again in SOP that the SDA church will have an appearance of falling but never will, but the great shaking will shake out the apostates.

I can tell you just by my personal experience there are people from other denominations come into the SDA church on weekly basis after studying our unique doctrines. Just as SOP predicted people from outside will come in and uphold these unique truth. The devil often has the appearance of winning, but God and His people will prevail in the end. There is nothing you can do to stop it.

 

[reddogs]

My brother if you come to share a understanding, there is more to a discussion than intense bitterness, vitriol hate and anger........

Corinthians 13:2
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

My brother if you come to share a understanding, there is more to a discussion than intense bitterness, vitriol hate and anger........

Corinthians 13:2
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

who are you talking to

 

[NightEternal]

Having come from an Atheist and then pentacostal/evangelical background, I can say you and majority of SDAs don't see the two opposing movements that are at war. Holiness is seperation.

So we as carnal, mortal, sinful human beings who are burdened with a corrupt, fallen, sinful nature until glorification have the potential to be holy? I don't think so.

Once again we see the degrading of our need for Christ's righteousness in place of our own at work here. Christ alone is holy, and not one human being will ever qualify as attaining that level of righteousness. He is our Pattern only, not some Standard we can equal before He returns. To claim that created beings whose hearts are described in Scripture as so deceitfully wicked they cannot even know it can be regarded as holy in any way as a result of process sanctification, is absolutely contrary to the Word.

Truth never changes nor evolves because God never changes.

But truth is absolutely progressive and how we interpret that truth can change accordingly.

The progressive thinking is nothing more than the humanistic enlightenment which is the essense of the New Age movement.

Oh come on! You can't be serious! Now I am embracing Humanism and a New Age philosophy?!! A good attempt at diversionary tactics from the topic at hand, but that will not work with me.

You despise the Spirit of Prophecy

Oh is that right? And where do you see me ever saying such a thing in any of my posts? For someone who does not know my position regarding the SOP you sure are making some unsubstantiated claims. It's always easier to demonize and label a person rather than deal with the substance of what they have posted, isn't it?

because it leaves no room for liberal interpretations of the bible.

Unless you believe that the Bible is a result of verbal inspiration we should have no quarrel here. However, I suspect you are a devotee of Samuel Koranteng Pipim's straight-jacket, literalistic hermenautic, in which case, we are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

And in real life I can tell you most of them are just as liberal in their life styles. It justifies the things that they do.

Oh I see. And you know men's hearts and thier innermost thoughts and convictions? If you use outward appearance as the basis for your condemnations, rest assured you are on the wrong path. Only God knows who are His. You use an outdated standard of behavioral restrictions to ascertain if one is indeed a 'real' Christian or not. Must be nice to set oneself up as judge, jury and executioner.

Is it any wonder SDA's have such a notorious reputation for being judgmental, condeming and cold with this sort of nonsense being spewed on a daily basis?

Listening to thier rhetoric, you would think that all liberals are shooting up heroine, drinking Jack Daniels and fornicating with every female in sight. Give me a break already.

But of course, it's usually more mundane non-essentials such as thier musical choices and wether they are vegetarian or not that is usually the standard of acceptance or rejection. How utterly pathetic.

I love how TSDA's build thier own standard of righteousness and then proceed to judge others accordingly. There is nothing new under the sun I suppose. It is getting old and tired though...

Yeah, the traditional or historic Adventists are now the extreme minority in the SDA church. But it doesn't matter. If anyone wants popularity, he/she'd have gotten into politics.

This has nothing to do with popularity.

You probably didn't even read the Paxton articles, did you? Should I have expected anything less?

Of course you didn't, because he is one of those dreaded Babylonian ministers. What could he possibly have to tell the church who is the exalted Remnant, right?

Yeah, I've got your number alright.

Just as God told Elijah that He reserved for Himself a remnant, God testified again in SOP that the SDA church will have an appearance of falling but never will, but the great shaking will shake out the apostates.

More threats and fear-mongering. The tactics of the TSDA's never change. You cannot scare me with your doomsday pronouncements and neither can you intimidate me with your supposed predictions of apostasy. Of course you can take comfort in your delusion that those who disagree with you will be removed by God. Meanwhile, reform will be happening wether you are on board or not.

Did you ever think that it might be the ones who refuse the pure Gospel who will be shaken out? Probably not. Keep taking solace in the full blown legalism of Uriah Smith's false belief framework. I will stick with Luther and Paul, thank you very much.

I can tell you just by my personal experience there are people from other denominations come into the SDA church on weekly basis after studying our unique doctrines.

Indeed, even as you make your grand pronouncements of membership growth, half of those baptized will leave the church because they have studied thier way out.

It's painfully obvious you have never frequented the former Adventist website nor have you dialogued with ex-SDA's on any serious level.

Just as SOP predicted people from outside will come in and uphold these unique truth. The devil often has the appearance of winning, but God and His people will prevail in the end. There is nothing you can do to stop it.

Ah, I see. Now I am working for the devil against God. Is that about right? I am not one of God's people, but rather an outsider who will be shaken out eventually. I would be offended if this tactic had not been used against me about a thousand times by other fundamentalists.

Let everyone read for themselves the ignorance and outright arrogance and presumption of the TSDA's. Ignore the issues on the table and rather resort to condemnation and fear tactics.

Sad. Utterly sad.

Can anything penetrate the delusion and blindness of the ultra-conservatives? It isn't looking good so far...

 

[NightEternal]

Strongcuppajoe, I am sorry if you find this exchange discouraging. Not everyone has the stomach for this sort of conflict.

The conservatives and liberals have been at war since the inception of this movement, and they will be until Christ returns. There will never be unity, there will never be compromise on either side. Thus, the battle will rage unabated.

I may seem harsh to your eyes, but Christ was plain and confrontational with the Pharisees of old. Modern-day Pharisees should not get away with any lesser treatment. Indeed, Paul claimed he wished the knife would slip and the circumcision party would castrate themselves. Make no mistake, the modern day Adventist circumcision party has placed no less restrictions and burdens on the unsuspecting and easily intimidated in the Adventist church. They make converts twice the sons of Hell as they by imposing thier non-essential man-made requirements and restrictions as salvific.

What I want people to believe is what the pure Gospel teaches, that's it.

As for my posting name. you need not read into it so much. It just sounded cool, so I used it. I love the night and always go for walks in the evenings. It makes me sad that there will be no night in Heaven, because I find it really beautiful when it is dark. Sunset is also my favourite part of the day, and I love to sit and watch the glittering city skyline in the darkening twighlight hours.

There is no Wiccan connotations there, believe me.

If only the liberals in the church would realize that the ultra-conservatives hate them and do not want fellowship with them. They regard us as nothing more than tares, apostates that will be shaken out eventually, irritations to be tolerated until we are 'removed' by God. If they really knew how the fundamentalists regarded them, they would join in the fight for reform wholeheartedly...

 

[Adventist Dissident]

this is true. ULTRA conservative are afarid of those not of there stripe.

 

[Sophia7]

since this was over a year and a half ago. i was wondering if you still believe this? sophia7 current posting would indicate that you have changed your mind on the subject could you clarify please.

I edited my original post that you quoted because my beliefs have changed in the past year.

 

[reddogs]

What part of the Gospel do you have conflict with that you want to reform...

Only the unrighteous fear the law, it does no harm to the righteous and they dont fear it, its job is to define and show us sin so we are conscious of it and come to Christ...

8We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9We also know that law[a] is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

The Lord's Grace to Paul

12I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me faithful, appointing me to his service. 13Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 1:8-14



No One is Righteous

9What shall we conclude then? Are we any better[b]? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one."[c]
13"Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit."[d]
"The poison of vipers is on their lips."[e]
14"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."[f]
15"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16ruin and misery mark their ways,
17and the way of peace they do not know."[g]
18"There is no fear of God before their eyes."[h]

19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Righteousness Through Faith

21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,[i] through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.Romans 3:9-31

 

[sunshinegirl]

I haven't read thru the whole tghread, so I hope this hasn't already been addressed. When did EGW say that "some standing here today will see the coming of the Lord", or something to that effect. Was it 1902 or close? If that were the case, even newborns would be 105 by now. And saying "some" would imply more than one. She didn't say a couple, so that to me means at least 3. Is anyone keeping up with this? It's an important issue, that could prove whether or not she really is a prophet.

 

[Sophia7]

I haven't read thru the whole thread, so I hope this hasn't already been addressed. When did EGW say that "some standing here today will see the coming of the Lord", or something to that effect. Was it 1902 or close?

It was in 1856 that she said she was shown this at a conference in Battle Creek, Michigan. Here is the statement, as published in Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 4b (emphasis mine):

I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel, "Some food for worms, [SISTER CLARISSA M. BONFOEY, WHO FELL ASLEEP IN JESUS ONLY THREE DAYS AFTER THIS VISION WAS GIVEN, WAS PRESENT, IN USUAL HEALTH, AND WAS DEEPLY IMPRESSED THAT SHE WAS ONE THAT WOULD GO INTO THE GRAVE, AND STATED HER CONVICTIONS TO OTHERS.] some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth, to be translated at the coming of Jesus." {4bSG 18.1}

Solemn words were these, spoken by the angel. I asked why so few were interested in their eternal interest, so few preparing for their last change. Said the angel, "Earth attracts them, its treasures seem of worth to them." They find enough to engross the mind, and have no time to prepare for Heaven. Satan is ever ready to plunge them deeper and deeper into difficulty, and as one perplexity and trouble is off the mind he begets within them an unholy desire for more of the things of earth, and thus their time is gone, and when it is too late they see they have nothing substantial. They have grasped at shadows and lost eternal life. {4bSG 18.2}

Such will have no excuse. Many, I saw, dressed like the world to have influence; but here they make a sad mistake. If they would have a true and saving influence, let them live out their profession, show their faith by their righteous works, and make the distinction great between the Christian and the world. I saw that the words, the dress, and actions, should tell for God. Then a holy influence will be shed upon all, and all will take knowledge of them that they have been with Jesus; and unbelievers will see that the truth we profess has a holy influence, and that faith in Christ's coming affects the character of the man or woman. If any wish to have their influence tell in favor of truth, let them live it out, and imitate the humble Pattern. {4bSG 18.3}
​

If that were the case, even newborns would be 105 by now. And saying "some" would imply more than one. She didn't say a couple, so that to me means at least 3.

Kind of a problem, isn't it? The usual Adventist explanation is that this was a conditional prophecy. However, nothing in her account of it supports the idea that it was conditional. In the Bible, when prophecies are conditional, there is some indication of that. The example that is often given to defend EGW on this is the story of Jonah because the Bible doesn't say whether Jonah told the people of Nineveh that they could repent and turn away God's wrath. However, Jeremiah 18 includes a clear statement about the conditional nature of prophecies against nations:

JER 18:7 If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.
​

Not quite the same thing as in the EGW prophecy.

Is anyone keeping up with this? It's an important issue, that could prove whether or not she really is a prophet.

Yes, it is an important issue. If she made even one false prediction, she can't be a true prophet. The White Estate likes to point out the fact that poor Sister Bonfoey died three days after this vision was given, as if that proved the prophecy genuine. However, obviously everyone else who attended that conference in 1856 is now dead as well.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Here is the official Adventist answer to your question.

Some in 1856 Alive When Jesus Returns?

Concerning a conference in 1856 Ellen White declared: "I was shown the company present at the conference. Said the angel, 'Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus.' " All who were alive then are now dead. Does this prediction mean that Mrs. White is a false prophet?
Numerous statements made by Ellen White in the decades following the 1856 vision demonstrate her clear understanding that there is an implied conditional quality to God's promises and threatenings--as Jeremiah declared--and that the conditional feature in forecasts regarding Christ's Advent involves the state of heart of Christ's followers. The following statement, written in 1883, is especially relevant on this point:
"The angels of God in their messages to men represent time as very short. Thus it has always been presented to me. It is true that time has continued longer than we expected in the early days of this message. Our Saviour did not appear as soon as we hoped. But has the Word of the Lord failed? Never! It should be remembered that the promises and the threatenings of God are alike conditional. . . .
"It was not the will of God that the coming of Christ should be thus delayed. God did not design that His people, Israel, should wander forty years in the wilderness. He promised to lead them directly to the land of Canaan, and establish them there a holy, healthy, people. But those to whom it was first preached, went not in 'because of unbelief.' Their hearts were filled with murmuring, rebellion, and hatred, and He could not fulfill His covenant with them.
"For forty years did unbelief, murmuring, and rebellion shut out ancient Israel from the land of Canaan. The same sins have delayed the entrance of modern Israel into the heavenly Canaan. In neither case were the promises of God at fault. It is the unbelief, the worldliness, unconsecration, and strife among the Lord's professed people that have kept us in this world of sin and sorrow so many years" (Ms 4, 1883, quoted in Evangelism, pp. 695, 696).
We can better understand Mrs. White's prediction of 1856 by examining it in the light of the conditional character of prophetic promises found in the Scriptures. For further study on this topic see "The Predictions of the 1856 Vision," in the Reference Library.
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/faq-unus.html#unusual-section-d3

You will notice that their answer is based upon Ellen White, not the Bible. They say "But has the Word of the Lord failed? Never! It should be remembered that the promises and the threatenings of God are alike conditional. . . ."

That is from Ellen White, the Bible presents that God can relent of an action in regard to a nation or Kingdom (Jeremiah 18:7-10.)but that has little relevance to a promise to a group of people attending a conference. They then go on to allow Ellen White to say that Jesus would have come before this if people had only obeyed. So once again their defense is to allow their prophet to explain why her own prophecy failed. Of course if you allow someone, anyone to make a prediction and when it fails give them the authority to explain why it failed anyone could be a prophet.

One thing that they often forget is that predictions of bad things are so common and just given time bad things will happen but EGW's prediction includes some really good things, i.e. translation to heaven.

Jer 28:8-9
8 From early times the prophets who preceded you and me have prophesied war, disaster and plague against many countries and great kingdoms. 9 But the prophet who prophesies peace will be recognized as one truly sent by the LORD only if his prediction comes true." (NIV)

If all prophecy is conditional Jesus may never return, no one may ever be saved. It makes sense that God in the Old testament would make provisions for repentance in nations and kingdoms. Even for individuals but that has nothing to do with what EGW prophecied. They would have been better off to say she misspoke or forgot to mention the conditions which apparently set by people not at the conference. For one lady in EGW's account thought that she was to be one of those who were to be food for worms. And she died soon after the conference I guess you could say that that part of EGW's prophecy was true, she did predict people would die and they did.

 

[Sophia7]

Here is the official Adventist answer to your question.

You will notice that their answer is based upon Ellen White, not the Bible. They say "But has the Word of the Lord failed? Never! It should be remembered that the promises and the threatenings of God are alike conditional. . . ."

That is from Ellen White, the Bible presents that God can relent of an action in regard to a nation or Kingdom (Jeremiah 18:7-10.)but that has little relevance to a promise to a group of people attending a conference. They then go on to allow Ellen White to say that Jesus would have come before this if people had only obeyed. So once again their defense is to allow their prophet to explain why her own prophecy failed. Of course if you allow someone, anyone to make a prediction and when it fails give them the authority to explain why it failed anyone could be a prophet.

I agree. Not only that, but also the quote from the White Estate says that God hadn't originally intended to make the Israelites wander in the wilderness for 40 years. The problem with that argument is that God clearly announced that judgment when He decided to delay their entrance into the promised land. When He changed His mind, He told them; He left no room for speculation about conditional prophecy.

 

[OntheDL]

It was in 1856 that she said she was shown this at a conference in Battle Creek, Michigan. Here is the statement, as published in Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 4b (emphasis mine):

I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel, "Some food for worms, [SISTER CLARISSA M. BONFOEY, WHO FELL ASLEEP IN JESUS ONLY THREE DAYS AFTER THIS VISION WAS GIVEN, WAS PRESENT, IN USUAL HEALTH, AND WAS DEEPLY IMPRESSED THAT SHE WAS ONE THAT WOULD GO INTO THE GRAVE, AND STATED HER CONVICTIONS TO OTHERS.] some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth, to be translated at the coming of Jesus." {4bSG 18.1}​

Solemn words were these, spoken by the angel. I asked why so few were interested in their eternal interest, so few preparing for their last change. Said the angel, "Earth attracts them, its treasures seem of worth to them." They find enough to engross the mind, and have no time to prepare for Heaven. Satan is ever ready to plunge them deeper and deeper into difficulty, and as one perplexity and trouble is off the mind he begets within them an unholy desire for more of the things of earth, and thus their time is gone, and when it is too late they see they have nothing substantial. They have grasped at shadows and lost eternal life. {4bSG 18.2}​

Such will have no excuse. Many, I saw, dressed like the world to have influence; but here they make a sad mistake. If they would have a true and saving influence, let them live out their profession, show their faith by their righteous works, and make the distinction great between the Christian and the world. I saw that the words, the dress, and actions, should tell for God. Then a holy influence will be shed upon all, and all will take knowledge of them that they have been with Jesus; and unbelievers will see that the truth we profess has a holy influence, and that faith in Christ's coming affects the character of the man or woman. If any wish to have their influence tell in favor of truth, let them live it out, and imitate the humble Pattern. {4bSG 18.3}​

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Kind of a problem, isn't it? The usual Adventist explanation is that this was a conditional prophecy. However, nothing in her account of it supports the idea that it was conditional. In the Bible, when prophecies are conditional, there is some indication of that. The example that is often given to defend EGW on this is the story of Jonah because the Bible doesn't say whether Jonah told the people of Nineveh that they could repent and turn away God's wrath. However, Jeremiah 18 includes a clear statement about the conditional nature of prophecies against nations:

JER 18:7 If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.​

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Not quite the same thing as in the EGW prophecy.
Yes, it is an important issue. If she made even one false prediction, she can't be a true prophet. The White Estate likes to point out the fact that poor Sister Bonfoey died three days after this vision was given, as if that proved the prophecy genuine. However, obviously everyone else who attended that conference in 1856 is now dead as well.

By the same logic, can we conclude that Jesus also made false prediction that the generation (during Jesus' time) would see all the things including the signs of his second coming? They never experienced the many false christs, the great tribulation, gathering of the elect, slaying of the wicked...And the apostles certainly expected to see Jesus's return in their life time. So by the same logic, can we say they were deceived by Jesus's false statements and
failed predictions?

 

[reddogs]

By the same logic, can we conclude that Jesus also made false prediction that the generation (during Jesus' time) would see all the things including the signs of his second coming? They never experienced the many false christs, the great tribulation, gathering of the elect, slaying of the wicked...And the apostles certainly expected to see Jesus's return in their life time. So by the same logic, can we say they were deceived by Jesus's false statements and
failed predictions?

That one has bothered me for some time........

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

So by the same logic, can we say they were deceived by Jesus's false statements and failed predictions?

Kind of typical of the poor reasoning of many Adventists. Attack the Bible or in this case Christ when their chosen prophet has false prophecies. However in the case of the prophecy by Christ, it is not as straight forward as that of EGW and her food for worms statement. First Christ prophecy covers two events, the destruction of the temple and the end of time. Second the meaning of generation can have several interpretations, one being "race" as in the human race shall see these things occur as opposed to them not surviving. And third and most often used interpretation is that it is referring to the generation that sees the signs will see the second coming. Which incidentally is Ellen Whites interpretation however she thought the signs occurred beginning with the dark day in 1780 if I recall the date as well as the meteor shower of 1833. So her view was consistent it was simply wrong. Few today think of those signs as being the fulfillment of the scriptures about the sun moon and stars but they were clearly thought to be fulfilled signs in Adventism in the 1800's