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Featured Is Continuationism or Cessationism a hard doctrine to prove?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by JohnB445, Feb 17, 2019.

  1. Grumman Tomcat

    Grumman Tomcat The LORD is my Pilot Staff Member Administrator Supporter

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    MOD HAT ON
    Do not personally attack (insult, belittle, mock, ridicule) other members or groups of members on CF. Address only the content of the post and not the poster.
    MOD HAT ON
     
  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What is the plight of those who add to God's word? Where are the Apostles who judge what is scripture or not? You cannot verify your "gifts" are genuine with scripture because it says they are not.
     
  3. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If your "gifts" were genuine, miracles would follow, and you would be in headlines. Not having only rumors and hearsay miracles at a sectarian level.
     
  4. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Are you trying to apply the warning at the end of Revelation to the whole Bible?

    John 21:25
    Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.
     
  5. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Why do you limit that task to the original Apostles?
    What about "others"?

    1 Corinthians 14:29-31
    Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30 And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.
     
  6. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Why have apostles if the others can replace them?
     
  7. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You cannot separate Revelation from the OT or the NT. They define the symbols and the future Revelation depicts.
     
  8. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    That assumes that what you claimed is correct.
    You asked, "Where are the Apostles who judge what is scripture or not?"
    Where did that happen in the NT?

    Were the RCC that canonized our Bible original Apostles? (nope)
    Yet they decided what was scripture and what was not. In fact, they were the ONLY ones who ever did, as far as I know.
     
  9. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you study the doctrine of the scriptures, why some made the cut and others did not, they clearly stand together as a unit. Plus, if you had anything even close to the original gifts it would provide you with the same credibility the apostles had.
     
  10. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    How many scrolls comprise the totality of our Bible?

    There are 66 books, some of which may have been multiple scrolls. What does this scripture say about a single scroll? Four times it says "this scroll". Four times.

    Revelation 22:18-19
    I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Are you claiming that the Bible is a single scroll of prophecy?
    And if so. is that what John was referring to? (not likely)

    - the words of the prophecy of this scroll (limited to Revelation)
    - the plagues described in this scroll. (limited to Revelation)
    - takes words away from this scroll of prophecy (limited to Revelation)
    - which are described in this scroll (limited to Revelation)
     
  11. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    A simple study of the doctrine of the scriptures from any standard theology book will enlighten you to the integrity of the 66 books.
     
  12. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I agree with your first statement, for the most part.
    To the second statement I say that we are doing a work like that of Nehemiah. Repairing the walls to rebuild a city that is in ruins.

    When you look at us you see a city in ruins. What I see is the former glory lost, and that which needs to be rebuilt.

    Nehemiah 1:3
    They said to me, “Those who survived the exile and are back in the province are in great trouble and disgrace. The wall of Jerusalem is broken down, and its gates have been burned with fire.”

    Nehemiah 4:3
    Tobiah the Ammonite, who was at his side, said, “What they are building—even a fox climbing up on it would break down their wall of stones!”
     
  13. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I am not questioning the integrity of the scriptures. I am questioning a claim that this particular passage does not support. Four times, "this scroll". And "the plagues described in this scroll". The same scroll.

    Revelation 22:18-19
    I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
     
  14. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Are you a hyper-literalist?
     
  15. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are only causing division that needs repaired. You are trying to push off your "gifts" as the originals without any demonstration verifying they are the same.
     
  16. JAL

    JAL Veteran Supporter

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    Glad to see Saint Steven calling you out on the same epistemological contradiction that I pointed out at post 273, namely, Sola Scriptura ("the bible is my only authority") is hopelessly self-contradictory, laughably so, because it begs the whole question as to by what authority did I come to accept Scripture as my authority.

    Here Steve was, likewise, insinuating that you had to rely on SOME kind of reality, perceived as authoritative, such as the RCC, or your own reasoning, to arrive at the conclusion that the canon is correct and/or complete. This authority (whatever it might be) is, for you, a HIGHER authority than Scripture because it dictates your decision to accept or reject Scripture. Like it or not.

    In my post (273), I succeed, in my opinion, in pinpointing that authority (conscience). To deny the authority of conscience leads to contradiction, as that post demonstrated, such as:
    (1) it would construe God as evil and unjust.
    (2) it would repudiate the authority of the Inward Witness (the Voice of direct revelation), both in everyday evangelism, daily sanctification, and the biblical theophanies. See John 10:27, 'My sheep know my voice'.

    Many Christians live under the delusion that the OT saints were under the written law. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Hebrew word qowl (voice) occurs 500 times in the OT, it is consistently sonic with perhaps one exception. The expression, 'Obey my Voice (qowl)' occurs some 50 times in the OT. Moreover, the word 'obey' in Hebrew literally means 'Hearken as unto a voice'. Whereas The expression 'obey my laws' is almost never found in the OT (unless you're reading the misleading NIV translation and such).

    Nothing has changed. In both testaments, the Voice, insofar as it speaks through conscience (see my post 273), is authoritative.
     
  17. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you are going beyond the written word, you are listening to the Devil.
     
  18. JAL

    JAL Veteran Supporter

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    You're accusing YOURSELF !!! You had to rely on some knowledge-tool, perceived reliable/authoritative, to accept Scripture. By your own words, this makes you a devil-follower!

    I'm sorry you bought into the foolish lie called Sola Scriptura, but calling yourself (and everyone else) a devil-follower doesn't mitigate the problem.
     
  19. StrivingFollower

    StrivingFollower Member

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    Well continuationism needs a lot less proof than cessationism since it tells of a God who still tests our faith in a variety of ways... Cessationism is very strange to me. On the surface it looks like they admire the Bible more, but in ways they admire it less. Because they view a lot of the philosophy in the Bible as being no longer applicable in a direct way. So factually speaking they're following less of the Bible than continuationists.
     
  20. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Scripture is God's word. Anything else is not and possibly the word of the Devil.
     
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