Is Christ divided?

[Kimberlyann]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Corinthians 1 [/FONT]1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? There is only one baptism. (Eph. 4:5)




[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Jews and Greeks are baptized into one body.
[/FONT]
Peter and Paul are not members of different bodies. There is only one body. (Eph. 4:4)

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Ephesians 4 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4:1 I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4:2 with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4:3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4:6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Corinthians 12 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. [/FONT]

 

[Tychicum]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Corinthians 1 [/FONT]1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? There is only one baptism. (Eph. 4:5)

1 Corinthians 1:13 talks about the evils of what today we would call "denominationalism".

I agree with Paul. There should be no denominations. We need to unite around the Gospel of Grace until the Lord returns for us in the Rapture and then Gospel of the Kingdom will be offered again to Israel. This next time she will accept (according to prophecy).

Your other quotes ... central around Ephesians 4:5 ... speaks of the "one baptism" in the "body of Christ".

That of course is baptism by the Holy Spirit when you believed.

I agree with Paul. Water baptism really doesn't have a place in the Church today.

Good thread ...

 

[TheScottsMen]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Corinthians 1 [/FONT]1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? There is only one baptism. (Eph. 4:5)




[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Jews and Greeks are baptized into one body.
[/FONT]
Peter and Paul are not members of different bodies. There is only one body. (Eph. 4:4)

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Ephesians 4 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4:1 I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4:2 with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4:3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4:6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Corinthians 12 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. [/FONT]

I would agree with Paul, there is only one Body, just as there is only one Israel: the two are not the same. Where the two entities meet is that there is only one elect, one group of called our believers, serving two different purposes. The church, making up the Body of Christ and ruling from heaven -- Israel, making up the ruling nation of Earth and ruling from Jerusalem.

 

[Kimberlyann]

I would agree with Paul, there is only one Body, just as there is only one Israel: the two are not the same. Where the two entities meet is that there is only one elect, one group of called our believers, serving two different purposes. The church, making up the Body of Christ and ruling from heaven -- Israel, making up the ruling nation of Earth and ruling from Jerusalem.

TheScottsMen,
Can you show me scripture that supports what you posted?

 

[Kimberlyann]

Paul tells us the the Jews who are circumcised in the flesh but not in their hearts are not Jews.


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Romans 2 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; [/FONT]2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

We are spiritual Jews.


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Colossians 2 [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]2:10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. [/FONT]2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, [/FONT]

We are the children of the promise. We are Spiritual Israel.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Romans 9 [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]9:7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called."[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]9:8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Galatians 6 [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. [/FONT]

[/FONT][/FONT]


[/FONT]

 

[Kimberlyann]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Corinthians 12 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. [/FONT]

 

[Apollos1]

KimberlyAnn –

As much as dispys claim “one body”, what they mean is a conditional “one” of whatever they may be claiming at the moment.

There can not be “one Spirit” (unity of revelation) because they claim more than “one” gospel going around in NT times.
They can not claim “one” baptism because they will claim there was a baptism just for the Jews for remission of sins at the same time.
Then when they say some of this is just for the “one” body, they still had a “body” of Jews in Jerusalem doing something else during the same time.

What confusion! What nonsense!

Tychicum said - I agree with Paul. Water baptism really doesn't have a place in the Church today.

Lol! Paul never said such and Paul taught and practiced water baptism throughout his ministry – as I have abundantly pointed out in other threads!

Ephesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it;
26 that he might sanctify it, having cleansed it [the church] by the washing of water with the word…

Please note that Paul writes these words just after chapter 4. Now what could Paul have meant here – “…the washing of water with the word…” ???

The answer is apparent to those that properly divide God’s word…

Good thread !!!

 

[yesterdog]

Paul tells us the the Jews who are circumcised in the flesh but not in their hearts are not Jews.


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Romans 2 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; [/FONT]2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

We are spiritual Jews.


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Colossians 2 [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]2:10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. [/FONT]2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, [/FONT]

We are the children of the promise. We are Spiritual Israel.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Romans 9 [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]9:7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called."[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]9:8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Galatians 6 [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. [/FONT]

[/FONT][/FONT]


[/FONT]

Spiritual Jews?

I don't see this being said, in fact I see Paul writing to a specific group within the Roman congregation. In context we see him speaking to Jewish Believers:

17But if you bear the name of Jew and rely upon the Law and pride yourselves in God and your relationship to Him... 24For, as it is written, The name of God is maligned and blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you!...

And after this chastisement and word play on the word "Jew" which comes from Judah, and means "to praise"...

Genesis 29:

35Again she conceived and bore a son, and she said, Now will I praise the Lord! So she called his name Judah [praise]; then she ceased bearing.

...we see that Paul goes from constructive chastisement to praise.

 

[Tychicum]

Paul tells us the the Jews who are circumcised in the flesh but not in their hearts are not Jews.

That is correct ... even they who been circumcised may not be qualified to be Jews.

 

[Tychicum]

Apollos1 just so you know. Your posts are almost impossible to respond to due to your lovely rainbow colored text habit.

 

[Tychicum]

Appollos1 question.

Do you believe you are a Jew too ... ?

 

[Tychicum]

"Spiritual Jews" is Replacement Theology.

I believe that to be a total mistreatment of Israel.

And it seems to make God mutable insofar as He would be welching on His promises to Israel.

I have never really understood that concept.

Are you total amillenial as well Kimberlyann? No Rapture of the Church? No Millennial Kingdom?

They usually come as a package so I am just trying to understand.

 

[Tychicum]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Corinthians 12 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. [/FONT]

Yes this is true during this dispensation.

Do you believe that was the case prior to the cross Kinberlyann? Were the Cannonites for example the same as Israel ... all were God's people ... one body ... one spirit ... one baptism?

 

[Tychicum]

Tychicum said - I agree with Paul. Water baptism really doesn't have a place in the Church today.

Lol! Paul never said such and Paul taught and practiced water baptism throughout his ministry – as I have abundantly pointed out in other threads!

Hmmm ... seems strange that Paul claimed he didn't but you contradict him ....

1 Corinthians 1:14-17 KJV (14) I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; (15) Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. (16) And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. (17) For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Of course you would know better than he ...

Just so I know Apollos1 do you believe in baptismal regeneration? You know ... baptizing babies so that they are saved before they can even talk or walk?

Many do.

That is why I think it better that it be dropped than it become an idol.

All it serves today is to get one wet. You have already been baptized by the Holy Spirit upon Salvation.

Like meat sacrificed to idols I don't believe it to do any harm (after all it is just water) ... unless someone counts on that water to save them.

Water can not save someone. Only blood can ...

 

[yesterdog]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Corinthians 12 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. [/FONT]

There is unity in the Body. Men and women are no greater or lesser than one another...people seem to get very leery about Jew and Gentile but seem to forget about specific issues that men and women are taught to follow in the Body. Women are not to be pastors, as we read in 1 Timothy 3. Does this cause disunity within the Body? Of course not. Likewise, Jew and Gentile are one in the Body and not amalgamated into one another.

We can look at each of the passages brought up, and see nothing which amalgamates Jew and Gentile into "spiritual Israel." In fact, there are two groups in the Galatians 6 passage...peace be upon them and the Israel of God.

 

[Tychicum]

The issue of everyone being the in the church (past present and future) is a "baby issue".

Milk and not meat.

I think you are just going to have to get over the issue (as it clearly is not Scriptural) if you want to discuss some of the deeper issues.

It is a little like universalism or Arminianism. If you are stopped up on this and refuse to study the facts you will never see past this to the mysteries of God.

Jews are not Christians and Christians are not Jews.

There are former Jews who have become Christians. Yes. But they had to leave Judaism behind as Judaism does not believe Jesus is the Messiah.

They remain "Hebrew" ... that doesn't change.

This really isn't rocket science.

 

[Tychicum]

Welcome brother yesterdog!

Why don't you explain to us a bit about "Replacement Theology"?

Brother yesterdog had perhaps more experience in this topic than most.

He attends a Messianic fellowship ...

†

 

[Apollos1]

Tychicum -

Why do you want me to look at 1 Corinthians 1???

You did not reply to EPHESIANS 5:25-26.

Paul said this AFTER 1 Corinthians 1 - so in your "progressive" revelation mindset, it must have more import - does it not??!!

WHY did you not answer that before you throw up another passage for me to look at??? You need to answer - IF you have one.

Can't you harmonize 1 Corinthains 1 with Ephesisans 5??

"...the washing of water with the word..."

Quit dodging - it is time to answer up.

(Of course, I will habe more to say when time allows.)

 

[yesterdog]

Welcome brother yesterdog!

Why don't you explain to us a bit about "Replacement Theology"?

Brother yesterdog had perhaps more experience in this topic than most.

He attends a Messianic fellowship ...

†

Oy, shall we explain the downfall of Holy Roman Empire in one sitting?

Just kidding.

I can understand the concern some have...but I don't see it as warranted once they actually understand the what Dispensationalism is saying. I have found that most people who cling to Replacement, do so without understanding the promises made by God in the Old Testament. There seems to be a belief that the New Testament has nullified much of what is in the Old. Just because the writer of Hebrews calls the New Covenant a "better covenant" doesn't mean that the rest of the Old Testament is nullified. Furthermore, God never made the New Covenant with the Church, nor with Gentiles. It is only because of Yeshua that we can have any part in inheriting spiritual blessings (Romans 15:27). We are partakers, not taker-overs. God has promised Israel many things, and there will yet be a generation who will inherit these things (Romans 11:26). The covenant was made with Israel & Judah...and will be fulfilled in them. We are not Israel or Judah...we are the Church, within which are some from Israel. But we are not Israel. We are spiritual sons of Abraham, not spiritual sons of Jacob (Israel).

Godspeed & Shalom!

 

[yesterdog]

Tychicum -

Why do you want me to look at 1 Corinthians 1???

You did not reply to EPHESIANS 5:25-26.

Paul said this AFTER 1 Corinthians 1 - so in your "progressive" revelation mindset, it must have more import - does it not??!!

WHY did you not answer that before you throw up another passage for me to look at??? You need to answer - IF you have one.

Can't you harmonize 1 Corinthains 1 with Ephesisans 5??

"...the washing of water with the word..."

Quit dodging - it is time to answer up.

(Of course, I will habe more to say when time allows.)

I see no lack of harmony.

In verse 27 we are called the "radiant Church." This includes those of Israel who have come to the Lord in this economy. We aren't called spiritual Jews or the Israel of God.