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Is Christ divided?

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Kimberlyann

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eph3Nine said:
Scriptural is not the issue...dispensational IS. Something can be scriptural but NOT dispensational...and be WRONG to apply to YOU. That is what you fail to understand.
Scripture is the issue.

You haven't shown me scripture showing how God says to rightly divide scripture.

The scriptures are able to make one wise unto salvation.


You said in post 42, NOT all saints are members of the Body of Christ.

Why then is the writer of The Book of Hebrews saying the Jewish saints members of the body also?

Hebrews 13 13:3 Remember the prisoners as if chained with them--those who are mistreated--since you yourselves are in the body also.
 
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eph3Nine

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Quoting scripture may LOOK to the average joe like something "spiritual" and "good". However, when one quotes scripture to the detriment of how its intended to be understood and appropriated, its NOT good.

You have been given an abundance of scripture IN CONTEXT that you have IGNORED to pursue a gospel that is no longer in effect. I see no reason to continue giving you what you clearly dont want...truth. You have an agenda and are satisfied with it. Its NOT dispensational and it doesnt belong in this forum.
 
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Kimberlyann

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No one has the whole truth. That should be evident by the fact that there are hundreds of denominations that disagree with each other. How then are individual truth-seekers supposed to believe all that a particular church denomination teaches when the educated trained leaders of these denominations can't even agree among themselves as to what is the Truth?

I think it's healthy to eat off the plate of many ministers, spit out the bones, and chew the meat well before swallowing.

Regardless of what your denominational bent might be, I hope that we can all agree that Paul and the Apostles had the truth.
 
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eph3Nine

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Kimberlyann said:
No one has the whole truth. That should be evident by the fact that there are hundreds of denominations that disagree with each other. How then are individual truth-seekers supposed to believe all that a particular church denomination teaches when the educated trained leaders of these denominations can't even agree among themselves as to what is the Truth?

I think it's healthy to eat off the plate of many ministers, spit out the bones, and chew the meat well before swallowing.

Regardless of what your denominational bent might be, I hope that we can all agree that Paul and the Apostles had the truth.

God tells us that with Pauls epistles we HAVE all the truth that He is going to give us, and that we need to live the christian life.

The reason that there are so many denominations is that people REFUSE to acknowledge that Pauls information is indeed DIFFERENT, UPDATED, and NEW information, revealed BY GOD for a purpose. The resulting confusion we ALL see is evidence of satans master plan to keep all believers from recognizing Pauls unique apostleship, and MESSAGE.1 Timothy 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. "

Kimberlyann...if coming to a full knowledge of the truth wasnt possible....then why would God say that this is what He wants???? Any saved person CAN come to a full knowledge of the truth that God has REVEALED to us in His Word.
The HOLY SPIRIT isnt just going to DROP what you need to know into your head while you sleep,but will reveal truth as YOU STUDY HIS WORD LIKE HE TOLD YOU TO......rightly dividing it and NOT jamming it all together and stealing promises from Israel that ARENT YOURS.

It is NOT only foolish to eat off the plate of many ministers, but against the wisdom of scripture, as most ministers dont have a CLUE what the gospel of our salvation IS today and are teaching "another gospel" and "another jesus" to the unsuspecting, unstudied, ignorant masses who claim to be believers.

As to your last comment....we CAN all agree that Paul was given the LAST revelation from God Himself and that this revelation completed the Word of God to HUMANKIND. YES, the apostles had truth as well, but that truth was NOT intended to govern we, the Body of Christ, or we would still be under the law and making sacrifices for our sins.

The issue is NOT did they both have truth!! The issue is to RECOGNIZE that the truth they had was progressive revelation and that UNTIL PAUL, the world only had Gods program with Israel, which was the LAW and works oriented.

With Paul came the MYSTERY revealed and Gods plan to redeem ALL mankind by GRACE thru faith in the finished work of Christ with the preaching of the CROSS.
 
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Kimberlyann

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Eph,



1 Timothy 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. "

I love that Scripture.

most ministers dont have a CLUE what the gospel of our salvation IS today and are teaching "another gospel" and "another jesus" to the unsuspecting, unstudied, ignorant masses who claim to be believers

I agree with the above statement. That's why we have to do our own homework. If someone wants me to believe something they have to show me where to find it in my own Bible. I won't take anyone's word for it. Paul wanted us to search the scriptures to find the truth.

YES, the apostles had truth as well, but that truth was NOT intended to govern we, the Body of Christ, or we would still be under the law and making sacrifices for our sins.

I don't understand this statement. Aren't the apostle's part of the body? Please explain what you mean.
 
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eph3Nine

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Kimberlyann said:
Eph,



1 Timothy 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. "

I love that Scripture.

most ministers dont have a CLUE what the gospel of our salvation IS today and are teaching "another gospel" and "another jesus" to the unsuspecting, unstudied, ignorant masses who claim to be believers

I agree with the above statement. That's why we have to do our own homework. If someone wants me to believe something they have to show me where to find it in my own Bible. I won't take anyone's word for it. Paul wanted us to search the scriptures to find the truth.

YES, the apostles had truth as well, but that truth was NOT intended to govern we, the Body of Christ, or we would still be under the law and making sacrifices for our sins.

I don't understand this statement. Aren't the apostle's part of the body? Please explain what you mean.

No, the apostles are part of the KINGDOM program and taught the law of the prophets. There was a CHANGE of program brought about with the salvation of Paul.

Please, study the book you were sent...all the answers are there. And every single thread I have started deals with this issue.


You said you loved this scripture...but do you know what it MEANS?

1 Timothy 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. "


Men are NOT saved today by the gospel given by Peter and the twelve or Jesus during His earthly ministry! So when Paul tells us that God would have ALL men to be saved...He is making a direct reference to being saved by PAULS gospel, NOT Peters. Thats point number ONE.

Point Number TWO is that being saved is just the beginning. We must first know what the gospel of OUR salvation IS...then God says he wants us to come to a knowledge of the TRUTH...theres the growth in grace thru believing the information given us BY God thru OUR apostle.
A knowledge of the truth, which God just told us He WANTS us to have, IS ATTAINABLE. How? By studying to show ourselves approved unto God, workmen that dont need to be ASHAMED (ask yourself how would you be a workman that WAS ashamed?)...by NOT doing what God tells you to do in the next part of the verse...rightly dividing the Word of truth.

If there is a RIGHT way to study the scriptures...then that means there is also a WRONG way. Recognizing the NEW information given to Paul that has DIRECT relevance to the NEW CREATION with NEW information is CRITICAL.
 
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A Brother In Christ

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Kimberlyann said:
Eph,



1 Timothy 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. "
this is desires not determined will here...

if God chose to do so it would happen

thus matt 20:16, Romans 9:11-22
I love that Scripture.

most ministers dont have a CLUE what the gospel of our salvation IS today and are teaching "another gospel" and "another jesus" to the unsuspecting, unstudied, ignorant masses who claim to be believers

I agree with the above statement. That's why we have to do our own homework. If someone wants me to believe something they have to show me where to find it in my own Bible. I won't take anyone's word for it. Paul wanted us to search the scriptures to find the truth.

YES, the apostles had truth as well, but that truth was NOT intended to govern we, the Body of Christ, or we would still be under the law and making sacrifices for our sins.

I don't understand this statement. Aren't the apostle's part of the body? Please explain what you mean.
Yes the apostle are the first layer of block on the foundation of Christ
 
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Hedgehog

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and making sacrifices for our sins.

For what reason?

Hbr 10:4 For [it is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

and if you say it was looking forward, and that later (after the rapture) that sacrifices will be to look back:

Hbr 10:6 In burnt offerings and [sacrifices] for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Here he explains it:

Hbr 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein]; which are offered by the law;

Hbr 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

What he is saying is, " I will come and be the ONLY sacrifice that could ever matter", and that will take away the first way- killing animals as a sacrifice and will establish the second, RIGHT way, understanding that Jesus was the sacrifice.
Hbr 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].

You might notice that this is in Hebrews, supposedly a book for future use, for "Israel" ...yet they are talking about NOT doing sacrifices, and trusting in the sacrifice of Jesus.
 
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Hedgehog

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or we would still be under the law

We DO (if we are faithful) obey the law. But it is the law of Christ, NOT obeying by the letter ( which is whats called Moses law). BIG DIFFERENCE.

I say to you Eph that what we know as Moses Law is what was wrong.. it was obeying the law by the letter ( physically performing it) when it (the law) was always meant to be observed SPIRITUALLY.
It was simply an example, a similitude, a shadow... words meant to explain and show TRUTHS. NOT meant to be DONE in the flesh.

It was a parable I guess you could say.

The Hebrews didnt know that. So they performed it physically.
I can show you even where Moses says all this if you ever care to see it.

Take a look at this:


Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make [it] honourable.

This is Jesus being spoken about. He will teach people the right way to observe the law. In other words take away the earthly following and make it honourable... the spiritual sense of following it.

Isa 42:22 But this [is] a people robbed and spoiled; [they are] all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore.

Who is "this people"? why, the Hebrews who are trusting in the earthly works way of performing the law. They were all in a snare by believing that was the right way.

Isa 42:23 Who among you will give ear to this? [who] will hearken and hear for the time to come?

Hey Jews? Anyone? will you give an ear and hear for the time to come? Will you ujnderstand that the law was always spiritual?

Will you hear that by following it literally that you have made a covenant with hell and death?

Isa 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand;

Eze 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things:

Zep 3:4 Her prophets [are] light [and] treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have done violence to the law.

More about the real law of God.


Zec 7:9 Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Execute true judgment, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother:

Zec 7:10 And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart.

Zec 7:11 But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.

Zec 7:12 Yea, they made their hearts [as] an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law,

He was telling them about LOVE, but they refused to listen they chose to follow after their rituals they were doing because it made them appear holy to MEN.


Mal 2:8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law;

How did they stumble at the law? They followed it physically and put all their energy into that instead of realizing the truths about loving your neighbor and God and that it metaphorically showed them about a savior.




Mat 22:36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Rom 3:27 Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.


Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

If you wanted to put those two verses together, you could say that one is justified by the LAW OF FAITH without following (physically)the DEEDS of the law.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

what does Paul mean by this?

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.



Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.
Hes saying that the law which was suppose to show them life.... they turned into death (by following it physically)
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me].
He became decieved and believed he was to follow it physically
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because [they sought it] not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

they sought to follow the law by the actual physical works of the law, they stumbled there. They should have seen the spiritual truths.

The spiritual truths of God would NEVER say stone someone and kill them physically. They should have understood to "kill" the old man ( salvation) so the new man could lige unto God.
This is exactly why Jesus Himself did not stone the lady when He said, " let him who has no sin cast the first stone".
He was pointing out how the law didnt mean to really kill people.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

If you act with love, you ARE fulfilling the law.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.



1Cr 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Paul himself is saying he isnt with out "law" .... it just wasnt Moses law... it was Gods law.

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

remember the law of faith? Hes asking, did you recieve the spirit by performing the physical works of the law, or by the law of faith.

Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Hbr 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

(from physical following to spiritual following)

Jam 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Jam 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:


Perhaps you can se a difference in 'laws" now.
 
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Tychicum

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Kimberlyann said:
Here is another lovely scripture.


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 John 2 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. [/FONT]
So ... are all saved? Are you universalist ...?

If not why not ... ?
 
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A Brother In Christ

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Kimberlyann said:
Here is another lovely scripture.


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 John 2 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. [/FONT]

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM [God] ye shall die in your sins
 
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eph3Nine

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Kimberlyann said:
Tychicum,

There you go trying to label me again. ;) I am just someone who is searching for the Truth. I love Jesus and I want to learn all I can about him, that's all. I am not interested in the doctrine's of men.

Then I have good news for you...your search is OVER. ALL the truth that you need for the Christian life today, AND your specific instructions, are found in Pauls epistles. The MYSTERY is NOT the doctrine of MEN, but information revealed directly to Paul by the Risen Christ for.....drum roll here....WE the Body of Christ.

Since the Body of Christ wasnt in existance BEFORE Paul...and it was ONE of the MYSTERY truths given him by direct revelation of the RISEN Christ...NOT Christ on Earth speaking directly to the Nation Israel....and since scripture tells us that WE, the Body of Christ, a NEW mystery truth, are the ones entrusted with the MYSTERIES of God for this dispensation....then will you please tell us what these mysteries ARE that cannot be found in the OT scriptures?

Kimberly ann....you dont KNOW about the mystery. Thats the problem here. I dont say that to shame you but to get you to put your money where your mouth is...if you want to know all about Jesus, then get to studying about His ministry AFTER He rose from the dead. THAT is His ministry to YOU. Get to know about Paul...THAT is your apostle with YOUR instructions. To simply keep saying that he preached the same thing as Peter is to be IGNORANT of the FACTS!! To keep denying that Prophecy and MYSTERY are different is to NOT want to know Gods MANIFOLD wisdom in KEEPING a SECRET plan and revealing it!!!

So, what will it be? Are you ready to leave mainline religion....and believe what Gods WORD SAYS....???? or not?
 
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eph3Nine

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A Brother In Christ said:
John 13:34-35 the new commandment give to us in the upperroom right before His death

Brother in Christ....now think....before His death....still Israels program...law of Moses....NOTHING new....still the same program Christ on earth always preached.

US is not there...the body of Christ is still a SECRET , HID IN GOD here. NOT even in existance. Jesus on earth was speaking ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of ISRAEL in their LAW program.
 
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A Brother In Christ

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eph3Nine said:
Brother in Christ....now think....before His death....still Israels program...law of Moses....NOTHING new....still the same program Christ on earth always preached.

US is not there...the body of Christ is still a SECRET , HID IN GOD here. NOT even in existance. Jesus on earth was speaking ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of ISRAEL in their LAW program.

The Jews where never told to love as Christ loved you...

Christ had not died on the cross yet..romans 5:8


john 13:34-35 the disiples did not understand till afterward of seeing Him resurected

then the HS brought these things to mind ..at a latter time
 
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biblebeliever123

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Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: (HID in God, NOW revealed)

Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: ((HID from ages and generations, NOW revealed))

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,((KEPT SECRET, but NOW revealed))

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;((UNSEARCHABLE...where in scriptures!!, but NOW revealed))

Ephesians 1:9, "Having made known unto us the MYSTERY of his will..."
Eph. 3:3, "..He made known unto me (paul) THE MYSTERY"
Eph. 6:19, "...to make known the MYSTERY of the gospel"
Col. 4:3, "...to speak the MYSTERY of Christ, for which I am also in bonds."
1 Tim. 3:9, "Holding THE MYSTERY of the faith in a pure conscience."

It was given to Paul... Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Eph. 3:3, "How that BY REVELATION He made known unto ME the MYSTERY.."
Gal. 2:7, "... the gospel of the UNcircumcision was COMMITTED unto ME.."
Eph. 3:2, "...which is GIVEN ME to you-ward."
Col. 1:25, "...which is GIVEN TO ME for you."

(verses that are only given in part are done for EMPHASIS only, please look up verses AND context...study to show THYSELF approved unto God..)
 
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