Is celebrating xmas a sin??

[Hank77]

I didn't know that my explanation would confuse you. What's so confusing? Hanukkah and Christmas are two separate festivals. Christmas is not and never has been a new name for Hanukkah, nor do the two festivals commemorate the same event in history or Scripture.


On Christmas Day they are celebrating the Nativity of Christ. It has nothing to do with Hanukkah.


The date of Christ's birth is unknown, so if the event is to be celebrated, some day had to have been chosen. We know when Christ died (within a few days), however, and there was an old theory that he was crucified on the anniversary of his conception, so that was part of the reason for selecting a day in late December. Nine months from the beginning of April would be about late December. There you go!

I believe scriptures show us that He was born either on the Day of Atonement or during Sukkot, the Feast of Tabernacles.

 

[dfw69]

1. What you personally believe contradicts Messianic Judaism, and therefore that is the attack/challenge/call it what you will.

2. But let's say it's not. So sharing is caring, eh? So you'd like to be "cared for" by other faiths? You'd really like it if agents of other faiths, Catholicism, Mormonism, JW, Islam, Scientology, constantly challenged your faith in the ONE meaningful forum dedicated to discussing your faith ?

I see your point , I will refrain

Sin is the breaking of the laws.

How can there be an end to sin, if people do not keep the laws?

By the power of Hashem who is able to make a man the son of Hashem through his power to change from within ..we all experience that power at some point in our lives but a day comes when he will complete the promise to make us sons free from the power of the flesh to be victorious in all things ... It's a future gift for our faith in him

Technically no one keeps the law perfectly and sin rules our flesh does it not? If we are being completely honest who has become as Christ to completely quit sin entirely? It's impossible unless one has already recieved the promise.... I know I personally have not recieved it yet ... Have you?

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Hoshiya, I take back all my words, I'm with you in defending Torah, (at least) without a shadow of a doubt, I believe in the Laws of Moses. Our lands are filled with too much sin. I also believe in Jesus being the Temple, I was just thinking you were defending Christmas but if not, I rest my case. Peace be upon House of Jacob/Israel!

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Visionary thank you for the kind explanation! I think I will say this a thousand times, I wish it was the Jews that spread the truth. Life would have made more meaning and sense. But thanks

 

[Hoshiyya]

By the power of Hashem who is able to make a man the son of Hashem through his power to change from within ..we all experience that power at some point in our lives but a day comes when he will complete the promise to make us sons free from the power of the flesh to be victorious in all things ... It's a future gift for our faith in him

Look, you said sin is going to end. Since sin is the breaking of the law, the alternative to lawbreaking (=sin) would be law keeping. No buts about it. To sin is to not keep the law. To keep the law is to not sin.

You talk in vague terms about being "victorious". Let's give that some meaning. In any given moment a person is either victorious over sin, meaning you keep the law, or you are not, and break it.

 

[visionary]

Technically no one keeps the law perfectly and sin rules our flesh does it not? If we are being completely honest who has become as Christ to completely quit sin entirely? It's impossible unless one has already received the promise.... I know I personally have not received it yet ... Have you?

"Be ye perfect" Yeshua believed and encouraged all to stop sinning... "go and sin no more". Since He believed it is possible, I think it is high time for believers to stop hiding behind "impossible" and start believing it is.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

"Be ye perfect" Yeshua believed and encouraged all to stop sinning... "go and sin no more". Since He believed it is possible, I think it is high time for believers to stop hiding behind "impossible" and start believing it is.

Didn't Yeshua say something like this to His Own Disciples in the Gospel(s) ?
Paraphrased it was "Look, you are already in the kingdom; start living like it.".

 

[Hoshiyya]

"Be ye perfect" Yeshua believed and encouraged all to stop sinning... "go and sin no more". Since He believed it is possible, I think it is high time for believers to stop hiding behind "impossible" and start believing it is.

I am not disputing anything you're saying, but you're buying into a false premise. He set a trap, namely the boring old antinomian cliche: you have to be perfect, or you might as well not even try.
And note that this type of logic is the worst kind of defeatism and actually GUARANTEES that you will fail.

"If at first you don't succeed, give up forever". That is the typical Christian attitude to the law.
They would never apply this logic to any other part of their life, though.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

How often did Yhwh tell His People in Torah that they must be set apart ? (holy) because He is Holy..... ?

 

[Hoshiyya]

How often did Yhwh tell His People in Torah that they must be set apart ? (holy) because He is Holy..... ?

My point is that even if one fails, one should still keep trying. That's the most obvious thing in the world. Otherwise, it is literally impossible to achieve anything.

 

[gadar perets]

Though I agree with you here I feel keeping the feast is strictly for those under the law not those under Christ who has fulfilled the law for us ...

I am not "under the law", but "under grace".

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.​

What is sin? "Transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4). Now substitute the definition for sin, as 1 John 3:4 gives it, with the word "sin" in Romans 6:15:

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we transgress the law, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
​

The law exists so that we know when we sin (Romans 3:20). If we abolish the law, we abolish the very thing that points out our sin.

What is the #1 verse you use to teach believers they shouldn't keep the Feasts?

What is the anti- typical jubilee trumpet?

The Bible contains types and anti-types. The sacrifice of Isaac by his Father was a type of the sacrifice of Yeshua by his Father (the anti-type). The life of Joseph was a type of the life of Yeshua, the anti-type. The Jubilee trumpet blown on Yom Kippur every 50th year (Lev 25:9-10) to proclaim liberty throughout the land was the type. The anti-type will be the final Jubilee trumpet blown to proclaim liberty throughout the earth. It is a future event that has not yet been fulfilled.

What is the reality of sukkot?

Sukkot (the Feast of Tabernacles) points forward to the millennium when Messiah Yeshua will reign over Yahweh’s Kingdom on earth for 1,000 years. Just as Sukkot takes place after the literal agricultural harvest of Israel is finished, so, too, will the millennium take place after the harvest of souls ( the resurrection of the saints in Messiah Yeshua) is finished. This is also a future event. Until this shadow is fulfilled totally (end of the millennium), it will continue to be kept. That is why Zechariah 14:16-19 prophesies about Sukkot being kept in the millennium after Yeshua returns.

I believe Israel is Jesus the true seed that has become a great olive tree ..the true Israelite ... Messiah of us all

Gentiles and Jews must be grafted into his will for salvation and promises, then are we truly one in him

Yeshua is the ultimate Israelite, but Romans 11:17 makes it clear that the Gentiles are the "wild olive tree" and Israel the natural olive tree. The natural branches were cut off in unbelief and the wild grafted in. Israel and Israelites are depicted as an olive tree (Psalm 52:8; Jeremiah 11:16). Yeshua is depicted as a vine.

I just don't believe keeping the feast is necessary for my salvation

I never said it was necessary for salvation, but it IS necessary to avoid sinning. To trample on any of YHWH's holy days, including the Sabbath, is a sin, a transgression of the law. We don't keep the law or any feast in order to be justified or saved, but because we are already justified. It is a fruit of our salvation, not the means to it.

Lol not a feast? ... you probably right they only ate bread and drank wine and probably meat was not present ... But it was very significant ..

Significant indeed! The word for "feast" in the OT is "moed" meaning "appointed time". "Feasts" would be "moedim". They are appointed times because YHWH commands His people to meet with Him in a holy convocation at those times.

That should be done everyday not for 7 days bro ... What do you suppose keeping that feast will benefit you in the future?. What reward do you suppose to gain for keeping that particular feast of 7 days eating unleaven bread?

I don't keep the feasts in order to receive rewards. I keep them because I love my Heavenly Father and want to obey Him. I choose to do those things that please Him, knowing full well that when I obey Him, I am showing my love for Him (1 John 5:3).

​

 

[One name]

Timothy 4New International Version (NIV)
4 The Spirit clearly says that in later timessome will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

6 If you point these things out to the brothers and sisters,[a] you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, nourished on the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed. 7 Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales;rather, train yourself to be godly. 8 For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come. 9 This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance. 10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

My point is that even if one fails, one should still keep trying. That's the most obvious thing in the world. Otherwise, it is literally impossible to achieve anything.

Cool Good and I agree for whatever that's worth.....
As a brand new believer one of the first things I remember of Yeshua's Word to us(disciples born again in Him)
was "you(disciples including me if I wanted to continue with Yeshua in Yhwh's Plan)
must be perfect as your Father (GREATEST NEWS OF ALL !)
in heaven is perfect."
No worries at all about all the many so-called 'definitions' as long as we disciples were following Yeshua.
But it was sad to see so many who wanted to be disciples, or claimed to be 'Christian'
would not even accept Yeshua's Word on this - they would not even start to follow Him.(and many still will not, they say/ they have admitted freely)....

And at the same time, they (who won't accept Yeshua's Word)
also admit they won't give up their nice furniture in order to help someone in need,
nor their "nice home/house" or car ('for appearances sake' ! (apparently) ) ...
i.e. they don't accept any of Yeshua's Word
When He tells them what they must do to if they want to be HIS !?
but they still "CLAIM" loudly often, His 'promise' / "bless me" / as if they can receive anything from Him even if they ignore Him.

 

[dfw69]

Look, you said sin is going to end. Since sin is the breaking of the law, the alternative to lawbreaking (=sin) would be law keeping. No buts about it. To sin is to not keep the law. To keep the law is to not sin.

You talk in vague terms about being "victorious". Let's give that some meaning. In any given moment a person is either victorious over sin, meaning you keep the law, or you are not, and break it.

When we keep the law by the transformation of our bodies to become like Christ then there will be no more sin ... It's a gift we will recieve in the future ... We have not yet recieved that gift

I don't understand your theory that keeping the law makes you victorious over sin ..,when we know we are all sinners regardless of how much you try to keep the law right?.... What advantage do you have when you say you keep the law yet still sin here and there verses those who don't keep the law ...you are both still sinners in hashems eyes right?

If righteousness is of the law Christ died in vain ...Galatians 2:21

 

[dfw69]

I am not "under the law", but "under grace".

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.​

What is sin? "Transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4). Now substitute the definition for sin, as 1 John 3:4 gives it, with the word "sin" in Romans 6:15:

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we transgress the law, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
​

The law exists so that we know when we sin (Romans 3:20). If we abolish the law, we abolish the very thing that points out our sin.

So the law is kept to only judge yourself and not others?

I have problems with the law because of the curses and consequences for breaking them ...people will one day use the law to judge and condemn again ... Already men use the law to call Christians pagans .. Big red flag for me...

Using the law men will find all manor of sins against their brothers and sisters ...and it won't be long men will eventually deny Christ as messiah and reject him to turn to another messiah who will enforce the law and rebuild the temple and commit judgement against sinners which will be a violation of all that Christ stands for ...they will eventually reap what they sowed ..I choose to walk without the law and love my brothers and sisters and judge not and condemn not which is some of my righteousness I offer up to God ....


Paul taught if we submit ourself back into the law and sin again against the law there is no more sacrifice for sinning against the law ...

What is the #1 verse you use to teach believers they shouldn't keep the Feasts?

I don't teach not to keep the feast and I don't judge against those that still do ... I just personally don't think it's nessesary for salvation ... I don't keep them nor know much about them and it's very confusing ... But I do believe the feast are appointed days and I keep tract of them personally ..

. I believe God will perform the resurrection and rapture during Firstfruits and gather us during the counting of the Omer and rapture us to heaven so that we may behold our father in heaven and live in new Jerusalem when our bodies are changed from corruptible to incorruptible to put on the body of Christ when death will be swallowed up in victory

The Bible contains types and anti-types. The sacrifice of Isaac by his Father was a type of the sacrifice of Yeshua by his Father (the anti-type). The life of Joseph was a type of the life of Yeshua, the anti-type. The Jubilee trumpet blown on Yom Kippur every 50th year (Lev 25:9-10) to proclaim liberty throughout the land was the type. The anti-type will be the final Jubilee trumpet blown to proclaim liberty throughout the earth. It is a future event that has not yet been fulfilled.

Lyberty from what?

Sukkot (the Feast of Tabernacles) points forward to the millennium when Messiah Yeshua will reign over Yahweh’s Kingdom on earth for 1,000 years. Just as Sukkot takes place after the literal agricultural harvest of Israel is finished, so, too, will the millennium take place after the harvest of souls ( the resurrection of the saints in Messiah Yeshua) is finished. This is also a future event. Until this shadow is fulfilled totally (end of the millennium), it will continue to be kept. That is why Zechariah 14:16-19 prophesies about Sukkot being kept in the millennium after Yeshua returns.

Hmm

Yeshua is the ultimate Israelite, but Romans 11:17 makes it clear that the Gentiles are the "wild olive tree" and Israel the natural olive tree. The natural branches were cut off in unbelief and the wild grafted in. Israel and Israelites are depicted as an olive tree (Psalm 52:8; Jeremiah 11:16). Yeshua is depicted as a vine.

true

I never said it was necessary for salvation, but it IS necessary to avoid sinning. To trample on any of YHWH's holy days, including the Sabbath, is a sin, a transgression of the law. We don't keep the law or any feast in order to be justified or saved, but because we are already justified. It is a fruit of our salvation, not the means to it.

We are called to mortify the deeds of the flesh through the spirit of Hashem which I pray for daily

Significant indeed! The word for "feast" in the OT is "moed" meaning "appointed time". "Feasts" would be "moedim". They are appointed times because YHWH commands His people to meet with Him in a holy convocation at those times.

I agree

I don't keep the feasts in order to receive rewards. I keep them because I love my Heavenly Father and want to obey Him. I choose to do those things that please Him, knowing full well that when I obey Him, I am showing my love for Him (1 John 5:3).

​

That's cool

 

[dfw69]

"Be ye perfect" Yeshua believed and encouraged all to stop sinning... "go and sin no more". Since He believed it is possible, I think it is high time for believers to stop hiding behind "impossible" and start believing it is.

I believe in keeping Jesus commandments ... I will stop sinning when Jesus changes me until then I will seek his power to transform me daily to refrain from my sins ... I cannot of myself ..I've tried of my own ..it is impossible

 

[dfw69]

I am not disputing anything you're saying, but you're buying into a false premise. He set a trap, namely the boring old antinomian cliche: you have to be perfect, or you might as well not even try.
And note that this type of logic is the worst kind of defeatism and actually GUARANTEES that you will fail.

"If at first you don't succeed, give up forever". That is the typical Christian attitude to the law.
They would never apply this logic to any other part of their life, though.

That's not correct we don't keep the law because we believe we are all sinners and the law does not justify but puts in bondage ... That as long as a man has sinned he is in bondage to the law .. We believe Jesus set us free from the law and we should not be entangled again

 

[pat34lee]

Is it your belief that something is either (a) mandatory or (b) forbidden ?
Because I can think of a lot of things that fall between those two extremes.

There are 3 possibilities, the third is allowed, but not mandatory.
#3 is usually in how we follow #1, because left to ourselves, we
tend to go pagan, which is always #2.

 

[pat34lee]

I believe in keeping Jesus commandments ... I will stop sinning when Jesus changes me until then I will seek his power to transform me daily to refrain from my sins ... I cannot of myself ..I've tried of my own ..it is impossible

Yes, it is impossible of yourself. Especially if you don't try.
You have to be committed every day, all the time.
Why do you think he had Israelites make and wear tzitzits?
They are a daily, and constant, reminder of the law.

 

[danny ski]

That's not correct we don't keep the law because we believe we are all sinners and the law does not justify but puts in bondage ... That as long as a man has sinned he is in bondage to the law .. We believe Jesus set us free from the law and we should not be entangled again

Sooo, all those times it's written "you will keep them forever", "for all generations", Gd was lying to us? David was joking when he called Torah perfect? We received bondage from Gd in the desert? Interesting perspective.