Is celebrating xmas a sin??

[Hoshiyya]

That's a myth.

The original emphasis was on Epiphany, not Christmas. Only later during the Victorian era did Christmas take centerstage. And the placement of Epiphany, to my knowledge, was unrelated to Saturnalia (though Saturnalia influences western secular Christmas traditions, it did not create the actual religious holiday). It was related to Hanukkah, the festival of Lights. Just as Hanukkah celebrates the Maccabean restoration of the temple and the miracle of light that occurred there, Epiphany celebrates Christ as the Light of the World, the glory of the presence of God returning to his people in the temple. In this case, Christ himself is the temple in his flesh.

In the early Church, Epiphany and Pascha/Easter were the major holidays, and this is still emphasized in the Eastern Church, with the Nativity and Passion being signs of the humility of Christ in his Incarnation and Passion, followed by his glorification in Epiphany/Theophany and the Resurrection.

I think it is interesting that Ishtar and Tammuz both contributed their names to the calendars of Christianity and Judaism, considering that they are the Elist equivalents of Mary and Jesus.

 

[Hoshiyya]

But Hanukkah is not a commanded feast from the LORD???

Is it your belief that something is either (a) mandatory or (b) forbidden ?

Because I can think of a lot of things that fall between those two extremes.

 

[gadar perets]

But Hanukkah is not a commanded feast from the LORD???

Correct.

Don't misjudge me, I was going through the YHWH 2016 feast days from here http://www.yahwehsword.org/yahwehs-calendar.htm and I got most of the ideas from there unless it's different on your side. :/

I wasn't judging or misjudging you. I was making sure you understood that all of YHWH's Feasts are for today.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Is it your belief that something is either (a) mandatory or (b) forbidden ?

Because I can think of a lot of things that fall between those two extremes.

None, neither a must-do or shouldn't do? Just doesn't make sense why Jesus' birth had to do with rededicating a temple the closest a temple ever gets to Jesus was his resurrection, (destroyed his temple and rebuilt it in 3 days). I'm just saying it fairly adds up to nothin'. :/

 

[Hoshiyya]

None, neither a must-do or shouldn't do? Just doesn't make sense why Jesus' birth had to do with rededicating a temple the closest a temple ever gets to Jesus was his resurrection, (destroyed his temple and rebuilt it in 3 days). I'm just saying it fairly adds up to nothin'. :/

Wait. Are you seriously telling me you don't see the connection between Yeshua and the temple ?

 

[FireDragon76]

"Easter" probably comes from the Indo-European word for "Spring", perhaps personified as a minor goddess. Most other Christian cultures use the word Pasqua or Pascha, from the Hebrew word for Passover.

Many Jewish festivals were actually connected with agriculture, just as many of the Roman or Greek ones were.

 

[Hoshiyya]

"Easter" probably comes from the Indo-European word for "Spring", perhaps personified as a minor goddess.

You're thinking of the word east, proto-Germanic austron, which may come from a root designating sunrise (hypothetical aus) or a borrowing from another language.

There is absolutely no need to say "perhaps" as this was clearly a goddess. Hence the eggs and stuff.

Being a borrowing, it could come from Ishtar, but in the end it refers to a fertility goddess in both cases, so it doesn't make much difference.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Wait. Are you seriously telling me you don't see the connection between Yeshua and the temple ?

Okay, one stone at a time. It's one thing to Celebrate Jesus as the Light of the world and it's another to celebrate the day he was born. It would have made it a lot easier to have called it Hanukkah instead of Christmas. I preferred if people named holidays for what they are not what they should be or better be. The Feasts of Yahweh have been exactly as they were named in the Bible, Passover, Feast of Unleavened bread etc Even if the times had a difficult time understanding what they meant, at least, we have something we can go back to in case we have questions on the Feast of Tabernacles or something else. So I don't know why the Feast of Lights had to go to the extent of being Called Christmas and all they would have done was just retain the festival and explained why it was considered a Christian Holiday.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if Jesus or anyone else was for it or not other than it was just mentioned briefly in the scripture. So even if it sounds justifiable to have it, it's best to say what Holidays are, not what they should be, Anyway, just a personal conviction.

 

[Albion]

It would have made it a lot easier to have called it Hanukkah instead of Christmas....So I don't know why the Feast of Lights had to go the extent of being Called Christmas and all they would have done was just retained the festival and explained why it was considered a Christian Holiday.

The reason is simple. Christmas is not an alternate name for the Feast of Lights or Hanukkah. They commemorate different events and merely occur at approximately the same time in the year.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Why are you confusing me? Are people celebrating Feast of Lights or are they celebrating a symbolic date of Jesus' birth? Even though none of them make sense considering the Symbolic DOB of Christ ishotly contested as either Pagan or Hebrew.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Okay, one stone at a time. It's one thing to Celebrate Jesus as the Light of the world and it's another to celebrate the day he was born. It would have made it a lot easier to have called it Hanukkah instead of Christmas. I preferred if people named holidays for what they are not what they should be or better be. The Feasts of Yahweh have been exactly as they were named in the Bible, Passover, Feast of Unleavened bread etc Even if the times had a difficult time understanding what they meant, at least, we have something we can go back to in case we have questions on the Feast of Tabernacles or something else. So I don't know why the Feast of Lights had to go to the extent of being Called Christmas and all they would have done was just retain the festival and explained why it was considered a Christian Holiday.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if Jesus or anyone else was for it or not other than it was just mentioned briefly in the scripture. So even if it sounds justifiable to have it, it's best to say what Holidays are, not what they should be, Anyway, just a personal conviction.

I'm not talking about Hanukkah relative to Christmas, I am talking about Yeshua relative to the temple. I was very surprised by this part:

Just doesn't make sense ...the closest a temple ever gets to Jesus was his resurrection, (destroyed his temple and rebuilt it in 3 days). I'm just saying it fairly adds up to nothin'.

 

[dfw69]

The temple was needed for the sacrifices and offerings, but they were done every day, feast or not. The sacrifices and offerings required were fulfilled, but the day and what it foreshadowed remains unless it was fulfilled. We cannot do away with a shadow until the reality comes. The reality of the Passover lamb has come in Yeshua. Therefore, there is no need to continue the shadow of sacrificing a lamb every Passover. The reality of the latter rain of Pentecost has not come yet. Neither has the reality of the Day of Trumpets (Yom Teruah) or the anti-typical Jubilee trumpet on Yom Kippur or the reality of what Sukkot points to. These aspects are yet to be fulfilled which is why Paul, many years after Yeshua ascended to heaven, said the Feasts "ARE" a shadow of thing "TO COME" (Colossians 2:17). They cannot be abolished until the reality comes.

Though I agree with you here I feel keeping the feast is strictly for those under the law not those under Christ who has fulfilled the law for us ...

What is the anti- typical jubilee trumpet?

What is the reality of sukkot?

When a person is grafted into the natural olive tree of Israel, through Messiah Yeshua, he becomes an Israelite. Their God becomes our God, their Messiah becomes our Messiah, their history becomes our history. Jews understand the concept of identity and relationship. So a Jew living today can rightly say, "When we passed through the Red Sea ...", even though they didn't literally pass through themselves because they weren't alive back then. I am an Israelite through being grafted in. I can rightly say, "When YHWH freed us from Egypt ...". Even if you choose to believe such an identity with Israel does not exist, we can still look back and remember YHWH's great work of deliverance of Israel from Egypt.

I believe Israel is Jesus the true seed that has become a great olive tree ..the true Israelite ... Messiah of us all

Gentiles and Jews must be grafted into his will for salvation and promises, then are we truly one in him

Passover/Unleavened is a memorial of that great deliverance of Israel from Egyptian slavery and our great deliverance from sin. If you choose not to memorialize Israel's freedom from Egyptian slavery, that's your choice. As for me and my house, we will honor the Almighty for all His great works.

I understand .. I remember all that God has done for Israel and us

I just don't believe keeping the feast is necessary for my salvation

The Master's Supper is never referred to as a "feast". The fact that it was held on Abib 14 doesn't make it a feast since Abib 14 was not a "feast" either. The "Feast" starts on Abib 15.

Lol not a feast? ... you probably right they only ate bread and drank wine and probably meat was not present ... But it was very significant ..

Have I ever had communion properly? Probably not, nor most of us, but I look forward to the day I have it with Christ in his kingdom in heaven

I agree, but we do not partake of the communion meal to the exclusion of the rest of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. We are to literally not eat anything leavened for seven days, neither have leaven in our homes. We are to spiritually not partake of the leaven of malice, sin, hypocrisy, false doctrine for that same seven day period.

That should be done everyday not for 7 days bro ... What do you suppose keeping that feast will benefit you in the future?. What reward do you suppose to gain for keeping that particular feast of 7 days eating unleaven bread?

​

No, "technically Israel are the ones called to remember the feast." If all "Christians" are grafted into the natural olive tree of Israel, then they are all Israelites.


Why are we called to remember what Yeshua has done, but called to forget what his Father YHWH has done? The fact is, we are called to remember what both have said and done.

​

We are all Israel when we all willfully submit to Jesus the one and only true Israelite who saves us all from all things

Praise and Glory be to him forever

 

[Albion]

Why are you confusing me?

I didn't know that my explanation would confuse you. What's so confusing? Hanukkah and Christmas are two separate festivals. Christmas is not and never has been a new name for Hanukkah, nor do the two festivals commemorate the same event in history or Scripture.

Are people celebrating Feast of Lights or are they celebrating a symbolic date of Jesus' birth?

On Christmas Day they are celebrating the Nativity of Christ. It has nothing to do with Hanukkah.

Even though none of them make sense considering the Symbolic DOB of Christ.

The date of Christ's birth is unknown, so if the event is to be celebrated, some day had to have been chosen. We know when Christ died (within a few days), however, and there was an old theory that he was crucified on the anniversary of his conception, so that was part of the reason for selecting a day in late December. Nine months from the beginning of April would be about late December. There you go!

 

[Hoshiyya]

Though I agree with you here I feel keeping the feast is strictly for those under the law not those under Christ who has fulfilled the law for us ...

So I don't have to pay my taxes ?

Isn't this the same Rabbi that said "render unto caesar..." ?

And didn't Paul forbid the eating of blood, and sexual immorality, and gossip and so on ?

 

[dfw69]

So I don't have to pay my taxes ?

Isn't this the same Rabbi that said "render unto caesar..." ?

We must obey the laws of the land bro we are slaves in this world but citizens of heaven

 

[Hoshiyya]

We must obey the laws of the land bro we are slaves in this world but citizens of heaven

If God's Torah is going to be attacked in every darn thread here in the Messianic Judaism forum, then I will defend it in every darn thread here.

There is no end to the antinomian attack upon the WORD.

You place the laws of men above the word of God, how are you a citizen of heaven if you do not follow the law of Heaven ?
The law of heaven has come down to us on Har Sinai. And it is a GOOD law indeed, praise be to Hashem. As he promised, it will never be abrogated, regardless of how many Popes and Mohammads rise up to declare it null and void.

 

[dfw69]

If God's Torah is going to be attacked in every darn thread here in the Messianic Judaism forum, then I will defend it in every darn thread here.

I understand it is your faith to defend ... I am not attacking it but just sharing what I personally believe to be true

There is no end to the antinomian attempt to attack the WORD.



You place the laws of men above the word of God, how are you a citizen of heaven if you do not follow the law of Heaven ?

We are citizens of heaven by faith in yah hoshiah who makes all things possible for us sinners my friend

I believe we will be changed one day to fulfill the law of Hashem perfectly that one day corruption will put on incoruption we will be changed to be like Jesus

The law of heaven has come down to us on Har Sinai. And it is a GOOD law indeed, praise be to Hashem. As he promised, it will never be abrogated, regardless of how many Popes and Mohammads rise up to declare it null and void.

scripture teaches an end of all things ... Sin will end ... Death will end .. No more judgements ..No need of a temple ...or sacrifices .. A new heaven and new earth and the former things passing away all made possible because of the new covenant

 

[dfw69]

So I don't have to pay my taxes ?

Isn't this the same Rabbi that said "render unto caesar..." ?

And didn't Paul forbid the eating of blood, and sexual immorality, and gossip and so on ?

Yes Paul did but one of the main themes in scripture is the believers showing great mercy and forgiving sins towards one another... That we sin everyday is evident but in keeping the faith we forgive our sinning brothers and sisters in love ...sin will not ceast until we are changed to be like him as promised

The righteous forgive sinners ...and we are righteous by the blood of yeshua

 

[Hoshiyya]

I am not attacking it but just sharing what I personally believe to be true

1. What you personally believe contradicts Messianic Judaism, and therefore that is the attack/challenge/call it what you will.

2. But let's say it's not. So sharing is caring, eh? So you'd like to be "cared for" by other faiths? You'd really like it if agents of other faiths, Catholicism, Mormonism, JW, Islam, Scientology, constantly challenged your faith in the ONE meaningful forum dedicated to discussing your faith ?

scripture teaches an end of all things ... Sin will end ...

Sin is the breaking of the laws.

How can there be an end to sin, if people do not keep the laws?

 

[visionary]

Okay, one stone at a time. It's one thing to Celebrate Jesus as the Light of the world and it's another to celebrate the day he was born. It would have made it a lot easier to have called it Hanukkah instead of Christmas. I preferred if people named holidays for what they are not what they should be or better be. The Feasts of Yahweh have been exactly as they were named in the Bible, Passover, Feast of Unleavened bread etc Even if the times had a difficult time understanding what they meant, at least, we have something we can go back to in case we have questions on the Feast of Tabernacles or something else. So I don't know why the Feast of Lights had to go to the extent of being Called Christmas and all they would have done was just retain the festival and explained why it was considered a Christian Holiday.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if Jesus or anyone else was for it or not other than it was just mentioned briefly in the scripture. So even if it sounds justifiable to have it, it's best to say what Holidays are, not what they should be, Anyway, just a personal conviction.

Gabriel tells Zechariah that he will be mute Luke 1:20 “until the day that these things take place … which will be fulfilled in their [appointed] time”

"Appointed times" in scripture always point to the Feasts of Lev 23. They are also known as the mo'edim. They are God's set aside times for Him. Delitzsch Hebrew English Gospels Luke 1:20: “וְהֵם יִמָּלְאוּ בְּמוֹעֲדָם”.

Just to give you a heads up, it isn't Hanukkah that is associated with Yeshua's birth but rather the Feast of Tabernacles [Sukkot].... Yeshua was born in a sukkah because the word ‘stable’ is sukkah in Hebrew.

John 1:14 “And the Word became flesh and dwelt (another way of saying “dwelt” is “tabernacle”) among us.

On the eighth day of the Feast of Tabernacles, Yeshua was circumcised.

To give you a little back ground history and understanding, I am going to back up for a moment with this little tidbit. Jewish tradition maintains that Elijah will appear at Passover to announce the coming of the Messiah. To this day, they set a spot at the Passover Seder table for him. Malachi’s prophecy about the coming of the Messiah on the Sabbath before Passover and for this reason Jewish homes set a place at the Passover Seder table for Elijah. John the Baptist was

Matt 11:14 “the Elijah who is to come”.

If John the Baptist's birth took place at the “appointed time” of Passover as they understood it then Yeshua's birth should be six months later at the onset of the Feast of Tabernacles.

Did you know that the angelic greetings of “Hosanna in the highest!” is a pilgrimage festival salutation connected with the recitation of the Hallel at Pesach, Shavuot, and Sukkot?