Is celebrating xmas a sin??

[danny ski]

What does Yhwh say in Torah ?
Yhwh watches over His Word to Guard it,
even more than He watches over and Guards His Own Name,
it is written.

It's a legitimate question on a Christian forum as save/salvation have different meanings between our religions.

 

[Sam91]

Without an internet most of us wouldn't be asking that question. Let the Holy Spirit guide us perhaps?

I will be celebrating Christmas this year. To what extent I do not know as the internet has made this question lay heavily on my heart. Woe betide me if I put any seeds into my childrens heart to make them despise the Lord, or turn their relatives away from the chance of being saved.

It is afterall what you make it. I shall make it all about thanksgiving to the Lord and the Lord knows our hearts and motives. Can I point out that it says in Romans about yr brother and unclean meat. Where nothing is necessarily unclean but if it is to yr brother because its in his personal faith that it is to him but not you. That you can eat meat but that we shouldn't make him uncomfortable doing it infront of him. I am choosing not to view it as unclean unless the Lord tells me. I shall be praying for guidance though.

 

[Sam91]

Ooops just seen the post about which forum this is in. If I have inadvertantly broke the rules I am sorry.

On another note where is the best place to find out about Messianic Jews beliefs as I have only heard recently that there is such a religion and I am very interested in your faith. I am sorry my previous ignorance too.

 

[gadar perets]

Can I point out that it says in Romans about yr brother and unclean meat. Where nothing is necessarily unclean but if it is to yr brother because its in his personal faith that it is to him but not you. That you can eat meat but that we shouldn't make him uncomfortable doing it infront of him.

Romans 14:14 is translated incorrectly. The Greek word translated "unclean" is "koinos" meaning "common". See Acts 10:14 for the distinction between the two. PM me if you need further info so this thread is not derailed into a dietary law thread.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It's a legitimate question on a Christian forum as save/salvation have different meanings between our religions.

What question ?
Again, what does Yhwh say in Torah?
(Not what does religion say)

 

[Sam91]

I will leave it for now but thank you for yr kind offer. I notice that my new bible translation also has that slant to it.

 

[visionary]

Ooops just seen the post about which forum this is in. If I have inadvertantly broke the rules I am sorry.

On another note where is the best place to find out about Messianic Jews beliefs as I have only heard recently that there is such a religion and I am very interested in your faith. I am sorry my previous ignorance too.

One thing you can add to your telling of the story of His birth is a little more information that "this is the day we celebrate His birthday". Here is bible study that you can teach your children and family about Yeshua's birth. http://biblelight.net/sukkoth.htm

 

[dfw69]

So what did the Jews do in their babylonian captivity? They did not have access to the temple. You know, Just like today!
So for that 70 years they were doomed under your view. Daniel was doomed as was every other righteous Jew in captivity

Doomed?... I did not imply that ... But there was no practicing of keeping the feast during captivity was there? Are there any writings of keeping the feast while under captivity? I assume keeping the feast is a part of temple worship ...I also assume keeping the feast was probably forbidden while in a foreign country ...

Are you suggesting that those not keeping the feast is doom?

 

[dfw69]

Yes, but the temple is not needed to keep the Feast Days.

Was not the temple a big part of keeping with the feast properly?

Your understanding is not correct.

I've heard that one before

Yes, Messiah is our Passover, but he died on Abib 14. The "feast" Paul spoke of started on the next day, Abib 15 which is day one of the seven day Feast of Unleavened Bread. We keep the "Lord's Supper" on the night in which he was betrayed (Abib 14). We keep the "feast" the following night.

Yes I understand the feast of unleavened bread was the next day on Aviv 15 but that is not the feast Paul was referring to ... It's an assumption bro to think he was referring to the old traditions of freedom from Egypt ...which only impacts Jews ... We Gentiles were not freed from Egypt ...

No ..the unleaven bread feast Paul was referring to was the bread of Christ body symbolized by the broken bread and shared between the disciples

we are to accept this unleavened bread which is symbolic for Jesus body for salvation which they partook symbolically on abib 14, the same night they ate the new covenant sedat known as the communion meal ...we are to remember this meal forever and the promises that were made that night for all believers .. John 14

Our brotherhood and honoring of Messiah takes place 365 days a year.

Of course I agree

YHWH desires for us to keep the FOUB for seven days to;

1) remember what He did for Israel in bringing them out of Egyptian slavery
2) remember what He has done for us in bringing us out of slavery to sin
3) to remind us to continually get the leaven of sin, hypocrisy, false doctrine, etc., out of our lives.​

There are different thoughts on this I cannot express here

But technically the Jews are the ones called to remember the feast . We are called to remember what the lord has said and done on abib 14 and arose on the 3rd day and ascended on the 40th day of the counting of the Omer

Does the feast have any future significance?... Yes I believe so​

We no longer need to sacrifice a Passover lamb since Yeshua fulfilled that aspect of Abib 14. We remember his death through the bread and cup, but we remember to live as he lived (unleavened) through keeping the Feast of Unleavened Bread from Abib 15-21.

You almost got it , but not quite

But if you feel the need to keep the feast, I understand ..

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Who and from what?

YHWH Blessed his Children when he brought them out of Pharaoh's hand and He will still bless his Children when He COMES!

 

[Linet Kihonge]

I would like to offer an inspired opinion on Jewish Feasts.

First of all, Under NC, not all feasts have been really necessary especially feasts that were needed to be observed at the LORD's temple. So Feasts that required the Households of Israel to celebrate are the ones that are still being observed today including the Abib 14. These feasts are done with Faith in Mashiach as the Unleavened Bread, Passover Lamb, the Atonement for Sin and I will remember the other one . Anyway, they were important to the Jews and if I read the verse correctly (Lev23) they were important to the House of Jacob/Israel in remembering their covenant with YHWH when He brought them out of Captivity.

So if I were gentile it wouldn't hurt if I observed all the Jewish feasts however, it would be important to celebrate the Last Supper in accordance to the Abib 14 because it's the most perfect date of the Lord's Supper and more so, in remembrance of Him. Please (nothing personal), the other Feasts are more aligned to the Jewish Customs than to the Gentiles. So I say, the Feasts were the LORD's covenant to Israel (so it was like a personal contract between the Jews and YHWH). So if you need to celebrate anything else during the Year, it's ideal/highly advisable if its in consistency with the Jewish Traditions than the "Pagan" thingis. (Please, haven't we provoked His Spirit Enough?)

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Romans 14:14 is translated incorrectly. The Greek word translated "unclean" is "koinos" meaning "common". See Acts 10:14 for the distinction between the two. PM me if you need further info so this thread is not derailed into a dietary law thread.

Today onwards, we shall call a Spade a Spade

 

[gadar perets]

Was not the temple a big part of keeping with the feast properly?

The temple was needed for the sacrifices and offerings, but they were done every day, feast or not. The sacrifices and offerings required were fulfilled, but the day and what it foreshadowed remains unless it was fulfilled. We cannot do away with a shadow until the reality comes. The reality of the Passover lamb has come in Yeshua. Therefore, there is no need to continue the shadow of sacrificing a lamb every Passover. The reality of the latter rain of Pentecost has not come yet. Neither has the reality of the Day of Trumpets (Yom Teruah) or the anti-typical Jubilee trumpet on Yom Kippur or the reality of what Sukkot points to. These aspects are yet to be fulfilled which is why Paul, many years after Yeshua ascended to heaven, said the Feasts "ARE" a shadow of thing "TO COME" (Colossians 2:17). They cannot be abolished until the reality comes.

Yes I understand the feast of unleavened bread was the next day on Aviv 15 but that is not the feast Paul was referring to ... It's an assumption bro to think he was referring to the old traditions of freedom from Egypt ...which only impacts Jews ... We Gentiles were not freed from Egypt ...

When a person is grafted into the natural olive tree of Israel, through Messiah Yeshua, he becomes an Israelite. Their God becomes our God, their Messiah becomes our Messiah, their history becomes our history. Jews understand the concept of identity and relationship. So a Jew living today can rightly say, "When we passed through the Red Sea ...", even though they didn't literally pass through themselves because they weren't alive back then. I am an Israelite through being grafted in. I can rightly say, "When YHWH freed us from Egypt ...". Even if you choose to believe such an identity with Israel does not exist, we can still look back and remember YHWH's great work of deliverance of Israel from Egypt.

Passover/Unleavened is a memorial of that great deliverance of Israel from Egyptian slavery and our great deliverance from sin. If you choose not to memorialize Israel's freedom from Egyptian slavery, that's your choice. As for me and my house, we will honor the Almighty for all His great works.

No ..the unleaven bread feast Paul was referring to was the bread of Christ body symbolized by the broken bread and shared between the disciples

The Master's Supper is never referred to as a "feast". The fact that it was held on Abib 14 doesn't make it a feast since Abib 14 was not a "feast" either. The "Feast" starts on Abib 15.

we are to accept this unleavened bread which is symbolic for Jesus body for salvation which they partook symbolically on abib 14, the same night they ate the new covenant sedat known as the communion meal ...we are to remember this meal forever and the promises that were made that night for all believers .. John 14

I agree, but we do not partake of the communion meal to the exclusion of the rest of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. We are to literally not eat anything leavened for seven days, neither have leaven in our homes. We are to spiritually not partake of the leaven of malice, sin, hypocrisy, false doctrine for that same seven day period.

​

But technically the Jews are the ones called to remember the feast .

No, "technically Israel are the ones called to remember the feast." If all "Christians" are grafted into the natural olive tree of Israel, then they are all Israelites.

We are called to remember what the lord has said and done on abib 14 and arose on the 3rd day and ascended on the 40th day of the counting of the Omer

Why are we called to remember what Yeshua has done, but called to forget what his Father YHWH has done? The fact is, we are called to remember what both have said and done.

​

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Now that we are on, what Gentiles should do and shouldn't?

Can someone offer insight on this: It was in reference to the laws of Moses
"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood."

Is there a book that gives a little insight?

 

[gadar perets]

I would like to offer an inspired opinion on Jewish Feasts.

First of all, Under NC, not all feasts have been really necessary especially feasts that were needed to be observed at the LORD's temple. So Feasts that required the Households of Israel to celebrate are the ones that are still being observed today including the Abib 14. These feasts are done with Faith in Mashiach as the Unleavened Bread, Passover Lamb, the Atonement for Sin and I will remember the other one .

Abib 14 is not a Feast. It is a preparation day for the Feast starting on Abib 15. Which Feasts needed to be observed at the temple? You seem to imply that Atonement still needs to be kept, but that was totally done at the temple.

Please (nothing personal), the other Feasts are more aligned to the Jewish Customs than to the Gentiles.

Every Feast is a shadow of some aspect of YHWH's plan of salvation. Therefore, every Feast day is aligned to both Jews and Gentiles. I certainly would not want to be found destroying YHWH's plan of salvation pictured in His holy Feast days.

 

[gadar perets]

Now that we are on, what Gentiles should do and shouldn't?

Can someone offer insight on this: It was in reference to the laws of Moses
"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood."

Is there a book that gives a little insight?

Those were four aspects of the Law that Gentiles were being required to obey as a start to full obedience to Torah. Verse 21 is important in the context;

Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath day.​

The word "For" connects verse 21 with 20. It tells us why only those four were commanded. Eventually, the Gentiles would hear the rest of Moses (Torah) read every Sabbath day and learn to obey them. Certainly, it cannot be said that only those four laws are needed to be kept by Gentiles. That would mean Gentiles are free to murder, steal, covet, break the two greatest commandments, etc.

 

[FireDragon76]

That's a myth.

The original emphasis was on Epiphany, not Christmas. Only later during the Victorian era did Christmas take centerstage. And the placement of Epiphany, to my knowledge, was unrelated to Saturnalia (though Saturnalia influences western secular Christmas traditions, it did not create the actual religious holiday). It was related to Hanukkah, the festival of Lights. Just as Hanukkah celebrates the Maccabean restoration of the temple and the miracle of light that occurred there, Epiphany celebrates Christ as the Light of the World, the glory of the presence of God returning to his people in the temple. In this case, Christ himself is the temple in his flesh.

In the early Church, Epiphany and Pascha/Easter were the major holidays, and this is still emphasized in the Eastern Church, with the Nativity and Passion being signs of the humility of Christ in his Incarnation and Passion, followed by his glorification in Epiphany/Theophany and the Resurrection.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Don't misjudge me, I was going through the YHWH 2016 feast days from here http://www.yahwehsword.org/yahwehs-calendar.htm and I got most of the ideas from there unless it's different on your side. :/

Abib 14 is not a Feast. It is a preparation day for the Feast starting on Abib 15. Which Feasts needed to be observed at the temple? You seem to imply that Atonement still needs to be kept, but that was totally done at the temple.


Every Feast is a shadow of some aspect of YHWH's plan of salvation. Therefore, every Feast day is aligned to both Jews and Gentiles. I certainly would not want to be found destroying YHWH's plan of salvation pictured in His holy Feast days.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

But Hanukkah is not a commanded feast from the LORD???

 

[visionary]

But Hanukkah is not a commanded feast from the LORD???

Hanukkah is only mentioned once in the Bible (John 10:22) and it mentioned as the Feast of Dedication, where Yeshua was asked to identify Himself. This feast is the feast of lights. Yeshua is "the light of the world" (John 8:12) Here is a little history about the feast of dedication. http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Winter_Holidays/Chanukah/chanukah.html