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Featured Is Calvinism Just?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by BNR32FAN, Dec 4, 2019.

  1. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    No not arbitrary. The doctrines of Grace lay out the revealed Biblical truth.

    God is not arbitrary in His choosing.

    Ephesians 1: NASB

    3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. 4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love 5He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the Beloved One.
     
  2. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Yes the Jews can be grafted in again.
     
  3. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    It shows if one believes what calvin taught, one cannot be sure.

    I don’t believe a word of his teaching that i’ve read and I’m very sure of where my eternal destiny will be.
     
  4. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Calvin actually opined that our belief, endurance and obedience is by the Grace of God. Such proves the fruits of a new creation in Christ Jesus. And this is true as:

    Ephesians 2: NASB

    8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
     
  5. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    He is teaching that the Election is not based upon the person's future works, etc. That is not to say that the person, thus chosen, will not perform as a follower of Jesus Christ ought.
     
  6. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Right. How he chooses is obviously going to be in accord with his will and purposes. But that does not mean that we are knowledgable (or need to be) concerning the specifics of his will and/or purposes.
     
  7. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Let’s visit the parable. Show me where the soil changes:

    Matthew 13: NASB
    3And He spoke many things to them in parables, saying, “Behold, the sower went out to sow; 4and as he sowed, some seeds fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate them up. 5“Others fell on the rocky places, where they did not have much soil; and immediately they sprang up, because they had no depth of soil. 6“But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. 7“Others fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them out. 8“And others fell on the good soil and yielded a crop, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty. 9“He who has ears, let him hear.”
     
  8. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    How were they grafted in to begin with unless they believed? How did they believe unless they were elected. Then they were broken off for unbelief. And yet they can be grafted back in if they turn from their unbelief.

    But wait a minute according to Calvin God’s elect cannot refuse grace, they absolutely must believe if they are elected by God. So why does Paul say “if they turn from their unbelief”? This is not complying with Calvin’s doctrines.
     
  9. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    God is good all the time, and all the time God is good. Yes I agree with your statement.
     
  10. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    First, please don’t bold everything you write. It’s like yelling and makes you look insecure. Second, you are privy to what God has done in the lives of everyone who ever lives? Do you see the problem in assuming you know this?
    Well some of those OT guys did good works so they could walk with God but otherwise I agree.
    Actually it says God raised him up, not created him for that purpose.
    See, not created but merely promoted to that position.
    Where does that verse say God hardened Israel so they’d crucify Jesus? First it says only some were hardened and second it was because they themselves made choices first and third, the crucufixion isn’t mentioned.
    Read the rest of the passage from Jeremiah. God works on the clay BASED on the clays choices.
    That is exactly what they hope for. I’ve talked to them. That’s their desire. It will not be granted.
     
  11. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    You keep shifting the conversation. Romans 9 indeed addresses God choosing and addresses calling and quite a few more themes.

    Romans 9: NASB

    6But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED.” 8That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.9For this is the word of promise: “AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON.” 10And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” 13Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”

    14What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.” 16So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.”18So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

    19You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it?21Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.
     
  12. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Ephesians 1: NASB

    3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,6to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
     
  13. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    Please show how He preselects gets some for heaven or hell before the foundation of the world is not unjust and two, please tell us the reasons God does as you believe he does in so selecting so we can drop the arbitrary nature of his so choosing.
     
  14. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Please read or re-read the exchange of posts between redleghunter and myself where all of that was discussed.

    That point was also covered in those posts which were put up only a little while ago.
     
  15. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    Where is the scripture that says God “sovereignty elects some people for Heaven?”
     
  16. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    While you are there, check on the meaning of unconditional.
     
  17. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    I read a few but haven’t found any from you dude that address the issue. Do you have a particular one in mind? .
    I haven’t found an answer in the ones I read so far.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
  18. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    Jesus calls that falling away from the faith.
     
  19. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    This does NOT answer the problem being addressed
     
  20. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    Let me ask you this: why tell someone how salvation works, if not to evangelize them? If I tell you that the one who has ears will understand, would you think you have no chance of understanding? Jesus was stirring them to open thier hearts and ears. They had God's teachings, but refused to see him as Messiah. It wasn't that they were incapable, it was a willful blindness.
     
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