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Is "Calvinism" Biblical?

BABerean2

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There is no dialogue at this point BA just you posting videos and scripture without context or comment. You offer a small paragraph here and there sure but nothing substantial. I’m not as young as you BA or have as much free time, I don’t see the need to repeat myself while you ignore me. I’ve presented enough information to sink you and New Covenant theology but you persist. This is entrenchment. This is invincible ignorance.

I was born during November of 1955.
I am old enough to know why others on this forum can get upset with us.

I was responding to another member on this thread, when you decided to become a part of the conversation.
You could have ignored me then.

If you can sink New Covenant Theology, you have produced a Bible with the last 27 books, from Matthew to Revelation, cut out of it.
The same Greek word "diatheke" can be translated as both "covenant" and "testament". It is translated as "covenant" in Hebrews 12:22-24 in both the KJV, and the NKJV.



Since you and I have had this argument before, I did not expect you to come out of your man-made doctrine.

However, others here are seeking the truth based on God's Word.
They can examine what you say, and what I say, and make their choice.
That is all that any of us can expect on a forum like this.

The question was asked... "Is "Calvinism" Biblical?

The answer is "No", based on the scripture found below.


Act_3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

Act_17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,

You can ignore me, and you can condemn me for speaking out about your man-made doctrine, but you cannot keep me from loving you.

I love you, Brother.


.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Exactly, none of us are capable of abiding in and of ourselves. It is only because of Christ and His righteousness that any abide in Him. All glory to God!

Thank you for sharing those passages of Scripture.

This is a warning. Jesus is telling them not to become lazy, lukewarm or unprofitable, that all of us who believe are to work for God’s glory and the lazy servant who doesn’t produce fruit or “profit” will be cut from the vine and be thrown into darkness where there will be weeping and knashing of teeth. Sound familiar? This isn’t the first time Jesus gave this message.

“But his lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I did not scatter; thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the bankers, and at my coming I should have received back mine own with interest. Take ye away therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him that hath the ten talents. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not, even that which he hath shall be taken away. And cast ye out the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:26-30‬

In the parable of the talents we see the same message being taught. A servant of the master is a servant of God. He is a believer. An unbeliever is not a servant of the master because he doesn’t serve God. Both the parable of the vine and the parable of the talents indicate that we have a choice to make and there are consequences depending on what we choose. In both of these messages the consequences result in loss of salvation. Jame 2:14-26 also confirms the same message. Look at verse 14

“What doth it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but have not works? can that faith save him?”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:14‬

James is addressing “his brethren” who say they have faith (they say they believe) but they don’t do works (they’re not producing fruit). James says “can that faith save him” (him being the man who says he has faith). Again the same message concerning believers who are lazy, unprofitable, lukewarm, not producing fruit with the same consequential results. Loss of salvation.

In the parables concerning the fig trees which did not bear fruit were also cut down or withered much like the parable of the vine. The only difference is it does not indicate whether or not these trees represent believers. In all of these messages it is clear that those who are useless and of no value to bringing glory to God they are rejected by Christ which can only result in loss of salvation. God gives us the ability to answer His calling and to abide in Him thru the guidance of the Holy Spirit but He doesn’t make us do anything against our will except for a few special cases where God had chosen someone to carry out a specific task. The Holy Spirit is like a compass that shows us which way to go but it doesn’t steer the boat. If we fall asleep at the wheel we can end up lost or even shipwrecked.

Allow me to explain from a different aspect. 1 Timothy 2:3-4 and 2 Peter 3:9 tell us God wants everyone to repent and be saved. John 3:16-17 tells us God loved the world and sent His Son so the world MAY be saved. Of course we know not everyone will be saved. Double predestination contradicts these messages teaching that God has chosen only His elect and those He hasn’t chosen never had the ability or opportunity to be saved or even the opportunity or ability to turn to God. This means that God deliberately sent these people to the lake of fire to suffer and burn for all eternity. The problem with this is the Bible teaches that the lake of fire is for those who are disobedient to God. Hence the sons of disobedience on whom will experience God’s wrath. If those who are not chosen do not possess the ability or even have the opportunity to believe or obey God they are not disobedient because God has never made it possible for them to obey. Ultimately God would be responsible for their disobedience and also responsible for their sins but yet still holding them accountable for something He has condemned them to. That would not be characteristic of a loving and just God. Free will and free choice is the only option that can possibly make any sense according to what we know about God and in no way compromises His sovereignty if that is the way He deemed it to be. God desires our love. Love is the only thing we can give God that is of any value. Love is not something that cannot be commanded or taken by force. Sure God has made a commandment to love Him but that commandment is to everyone and yet not everyone loves Him. If God intended for everyone to love Him we wouldn’t be capable of resisting. But would that kind of love have any value? Would that kind of love really satisfy God? I could program my computer to say it loves me and to do things to make it seem to love me but I would know it is only acting out the programming that I put into it. It has no choice whether or not to love me so it isn’t real love. God created us completely autonomous having the freedom to choose whatever we desire. God wants us to choose to love Him out of our own desire because that’s what real love is. Love is a gift given freely not obedience that is taken by force. I could hold a gun to my wife’s head and make her do whatever I want but it won’t make her truly love me. Love is a feeling we have inside us that drives us to do things to please those we love. This is why God has given us free will. He wants to be surrounded by our love and to give us His love in return. That’s why while He wants everyone to repent and be saved not everyone will. I believe He is working His plan to save as many as possible without interfering with free will. So even when we become a believer we still have free will and we still have the ability to either stand or fall.
 
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BNR32FAN

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BNR, this scripture isn't a silver bullet. Play with Strong's all you want it doesn't change or alter the meaning Apologetic Warrior laid out already.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

But he said a bad tree cannot be in Christ which is a contradiction of verse 2. Not to mention the context of the message is being said to Jesus’ 11 faithful apostles. So why would Jesus warn them of not abiding even explaining the consequences which result in loss of salvation if it is something they are incapable of doing? Here’s another example of a bad tree that is not immediately cut down for not producing fruit but The Lord is patiently waiting giving it an opportunity to bear fruit.

“And he spake this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came seeking fruit thereon, and found none. And he said unto the vinedresser, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why doth it also cumber the ground? And he answering saith unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: and if it bear fruit thenceforth, well; but if not, thou shalt cut it down.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:6-9‬

I don’t know why you call it “playing with Strong’s” I call it seeking the true meaning of what Jesus and John were trying to convey. I have not twisted anything in my explanation and if I have it would be more beneficial for everyone for you to kindly point it out so that I may be corrected in my error. I would very much appreciate that my friend.
 
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Since the high-browed intellectuals of Calvinism can never be wrong about anything, I am sure you must be correct.

Forget 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Galatians 4:24-31, and Hebrews 7:12, and Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 12:18-24.

Forget that God commanded all men to "repent".


Act_3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

Act_8:22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.

Act_17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,


Forget the text of Ephesians 1:13.

Forget? No, let's not. A word on repentance from a Calvinist.

The Necessity of Repentance

J. C. Ryle (1816-1900)

Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.—Luke 13:3

The text that heads this page, at first sight, looks stern and severe: “Except ye repent, ye shall all perish.” I can fancy someone saying, “Is this the gospel?” “Are these the glad tidings? Are these the good news of which ministers speak?” “This is a hard saying, who can hear it?” (Joh 6:60).

But from whose lips did these words come? They came from the lips of One Who loves us with a love that passeth knowledge, even Jesus Christ, the Son of God. They were spoken by One Who so loved us that He left heaven for our sakes; came down to earth for our sakes; lived a poor, humble life for three-and-thirty years on earth for our sakes; went to the cross for us, went to the grave for us, and died for our sins. The words that come from lips like these must surely be words of love.

After all, what greater proof of love can be given than to warn a friend of coming danger? The father who sees his son tottering toward the brink of a precipice, and as he sees him cries out sharply, “Stop, stop!”—does not that father love his son? The tender mother who sees her infant on the point of eating some poisonous berry and cries out sharply, “Stop, stop! Put it down!”—does not that mother love that child? It is indifference that lets people alone and allows them to go on every one in his own way. It is love, tender love, which warns and raises the cry of alarm. The cry of “Fire! Fire!” at midnight may sometimes startle a man out of his sleep—rudely, harshly, unpleasantly. But who would complain, if that cry was the means of saving his life? The words, “Except ye repent, ye shall all perish,” may seem at first sight stern and severe. But they are words of love, and may be the means of delivering precious souls from hell.

I pass on now to…consider the necessity of repentance: Why is repentance needful? The text that stands at the head of this paper shows clearly the necessity of repentance. The words of our Lord Jesus Christ are distinct, express, and emphatic: “Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.” All, all without exception need repentance toward God. It is not only necessary for thieves, murderers, drunkards, adulterers, fornicators, and the inmates of prisons and of jails. No. All born of the seed of Adam—all without exception need repentance toward God. The queen upon her throne and the pauper in the workhouse; the rich man in his drawing room, the servant maid in the kitchen; the professor of sciences at the university, the poor ignorant boy who follows the plow—all by nature need repentance. All are born in sin; and all must repent and be converted if they would be saved. All must have their hearts changed about sin. All must repent, as well as believe the gospel. “Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall in no wise enter the kingdom of heaven” (Mat 18:3). “Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”

But whence comes the necessity of repentance? Why is such tremendously strong language used about this necessity? What are the reasons…[that] repentance is so needful?

(a) For one thing, without repentance there is no forgiveness of sins. In saying this, I must guard myself against misconstruction. I ask you emphatically not to misunderstand me: the tears of repentance wash away no sins. It is bad [theology] to say that they do. That is the office, that the work of the blood of Christ alone. Contrition346 makes no atonement for transgression. It is wretched theology to say that it does. It can do nothing of the kind. Our best repentance is a poor, imperfect thing and needs repenting over again. Our best contrition has defects enough about it to sink us into hell. “We are counted righteous before God only for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ, by faith, and not for our own works or deservings”347—not for our repentance, holiness, almsgiving,348 sacrament receiving, or anything of the kind. All this is perfectly true. Still it is no less true that justified people are always penitent people and that a forgiven sinner will always be a man who mourns over and loathes his sins. God in Christ is willing to receive rebellious man and grant him peace if he only comes to Him in Christ’s name, however wicked he may have been. But God requires, and requires justly, that the rebel shall throw down his arms. The Lord Jesus Christ is ready to pity, pardon, relieve, cleanse, wash, sanctify, and fit for heaven. But the Lord Jesus Christ desires to see a man hate the sins that he wishes to be forgiven. Let some men call this “legality,” if they will. Let some call it “bondage,” if they please. I take my stand on Scripture. The testimony of God’s Word is plain and unmistakable. Justified people are always penitent people. Without repentance, there is no forgiveness of sins.

(b) For another thing, without repentance there is no happiness in the life that now is. There may be high spirits, excitement, laughter, and merriment, so long as health is good and money is in the pocket. But these things are not solid happiness. There is a conscience in all men, and that conscience must be satisfied. So long as conscience feels that sin has not been repented of and forsaken, so long it will not be quiet and will not let a man feel comfortable within…

(c) For another thing, without repentance there can be no [fitness] for heaven in the world that is yet to come. Heaven is a prepared place, and they who go to heaven must be a prepared people. Our hearts must be in tune for the employments of heaven, or else heaven itself would be a miserable abode. Our minds must be in harmony with those of the inhabitants of heaven, or else the society of heaven would soon be intolerable to us…What could you possibly do in heaven if you got there with a heart loving sin? To which of all the saints would you speak? By whose side would you sit down? Surely, the angels of God would make no sweet music to the heart of him who cannot bear saints upon earth and [who] never praised the Lamb for redeeming love! Surely, the company of patriarchs, apostles, and prophets would be no joy to that man who will not read his Bible now and does not care to know what apostles and prophets wrote. Oh, no! No! There can be no happiness in heaven, if we get there with an impenitent heart…

I beseech you by the mercies of God to lay to heart the things that I have just been saying and to ponder them well. You live in a world of cheating, imposition,349 and deception. Let no man deceive you about the necessity of repentance. Oh, that professing Christians would see, and know, and feel more than they do, the necessity, the absolute necessity of true repentance towards God! There are many things that are not needful. Riches are not needful. Health is not needful. Fine clothes are not needful. Noble friends are not needful. The favor of the world is not needful. Gifts and learning are not needful. Millions have reached heaven without these things. Thousands are reaching heaven every year without them. But no one ever reached heaven without “repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ” (Act 20:21).

Let no man ever persuade you that any religion deserves to be called the gospel, in which repentance toward God has not a most prominent place. A gospel, indeed! That is no gospel in which repentance is not a principal thing. A gospel! It is the gospel of man, but not of God. A gospel! It comes from earth, but not from heaven. A gospel! It is not the gospel at all. It is rank antinomianism 350 and nothing else. So long as you hug your sins, and cleave to your sins, and will have your sins, so long you may talk as you please about the gospel, but your sins are not forgiven. You may call that legal, if you like. You may say, if you please, you “hope it will be all right at the last—God is merciful—God is love—Christ has died—I hope I shall go to heaven after all.” No! I tell you, it is not all right. It will never be all right…You are trampling underfoot the blood of atonement. You have as yet no part or lot in Christ. So long as you do not repent of sin, the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is no gospel to your soul. Christ is a Savior from sin, not a Savior for man in sin. If a man will have his sins, the day will come when that merciful Savior will say to him, “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels” (Mat 25:41).

Let no man ever delude you into supposing that you can be happy in this world without repentance. Oh, no!...The longer you go on without repentance, the more unhappy will that heart of yours be. When old age creeps over you and grey hairs appear upon your head—when you are unable to go where you once went, and take pleasure where you once took pleasure—your wretchedness and misery will break in upon you like an armed man …Write it down in the tablets of your heart—without repentance, no peace!

I expect to see many wonders at the last day. I expect to see some at the right hand of the Lord Jesus Christ whom I once feared I should see upon the left. I expect to see some at the left hand whom I supposed to be good Christians and expected to see at the right. But there is one thing I am sure I shall not see. I shall not see at the right hand of Jesus Christ one single impenitent man.

From “Repentance” in Old Paths, The Banner of Truth Trust, www.banneroftruth.org.

Calvinism is rather strong on repentance, to the contrary of what you suggest, gee I wonder why you would even make such suggestions?
 
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BABerean2

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Calvinism is rather strong on repentance, to the contrary of what you suggest, gee I wonder why you would even make such suggestions?

Why would God command all men to repent, which is a thing some men cannot do, according to Calvinists?

Somebody here is talking out of both sides of their mouth...


.
 
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Why would God command all men to repent, which is a thing some men cannot do, according to Calvinists?

Somebody here is talking out of both sides of their mouth...

If God only commanded men to do what they could do, He never would have given man the law, because no man could strictly obey it. So I have to assume you disagree (based on your question above), so name one man from the Old Testament who never broke even one of the commandments and we will see about your later statement.
 
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BABerean2

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If God only commanded men to do what they could do, He never would have given man the law, because no man could strictly obey it. So I have to assume you disagree (based on your question above), so name one man from the Old Testament who never broke even one of the commandments and we will see about your later statement.

Did God link the keeping of the Mosaic Law to being converted so that a person's sins could be blotted out?

Act_3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

How many babies of believers "repent" before they are sprinkled with water?

.
 
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Did God link the keeping of the Mosaic Law to being converted so that a person's sins could be blotted out?

So I take it you'll not be answering the question I asked? Even though I've taken time to answer your objections, all while you spit on me spiritually?

Act_3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

How many babies of believers "repent" before they are sprinkled with water?

Loads of assumptions in that question, loads. How many babies die in infancy? Next your question goes back to you, except as it applies to all infants. You see, the difference is, I believe in monergistic regeneration, I deny decisional regeneration, and salvation belongs to the Lord, He first chose me, and that He chooses the infants of believers is certainly compatible and consistent with monergistic regeneration, and being as it is, the salvation of infants of believers whom die in infancy does not depend on any response from the infant at all. This is consistent with my beliefs, yours on the other hand I suspect not, but difficult to say since you're all offense and no defense. Now you'll say I speak out of both sides when I say the salvation of adults does involve choosing repentance it is vital to sanctification, but as I mentioned earlier in this little debate, sanctification is not election, calling, regeneration, justification, nor glorification.
 
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BABerean2

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You see, the difference is, I believe in monergistic regeneration, I deny decisional regeneration, and salvation belongs to the Lord, He first chose me, and that He chooses the infants of believers is certainly compatible and consistent with monergistic regeneration, and being as it is, the salvation of infants of believers whom die in infancy does not depend on any response from the infant at all. This is consistent with my beliefs, yours on the other hand I suspect not, but difficult to say since you're all offense and no defense.

John Calvin also believed the infants of believers were different from the infants of non-believers.

Does the verse below agree with what you believe about regeneration?



Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,


Do you believe a dying infant's baptism has an effect on the baby's salvation?
Is an infant regenerated during its water baptism?

The comment about "spitting on you spiritually" is not appropriate.


If you have to find something wrong with me to defend your doctrine, you need to re-evaluate what you believe.




.
 
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redleghunter

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Your not quoting the full message in verse 2.

“Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he taketh it away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he cleanseth it, that it may bear more fruit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2‬

Jesus says every branch “in Me” that beareth not fruit. I would say this would either be a new believer or someone who has become lukewarm.
Each time you bring up John 15:1-10 you forget to go all the way through verse 17:


15“No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16“You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17“This I command you, that you love one another.
 
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redleghunter

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I’m not assuming anything my friend John 15:2 specifically says

“Every branch in me (Christ) that beareth not fruit, he taketh it away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he cleanseth it, that it may bear more fruit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2‬
And the below says who He chooses will bear fruit and keep it. Quite a distinction. Unless you think verses 1-10 is for the 11 and us, and verses 15-17 is only for the 11. To do so would be an inconsistency.

15“No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16“You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17“This I command you, that you love one another.
 
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redleghunter

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Well that’s one way to view verse 2 but that interpretation doesn’t really hold up to the context of what’s really being said. For example who is Jesus talking to? He’s not talking to hypocrites. He’s talking to His 11 faithful apostles saying to them

“Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; so neither can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for apart from me ye can do nothing.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:4-5‬

Evidently Jesus is saying that even His faithful 11 apostles are capable of not abiding which if they were to remain in such a state without repentance they would face the consequences stated in verse 6 which results in loss of salvation.
Indeed let's stay with the context which reaches back to John 13 and the washing of feet. What event happened right before Jesus and the 11 left the supper room and headed to Gethsemane? Right, Judas left to betray Jesus and only John and maybe Peter had some knowledge of it but were probably still confused. Yet there was probably questions of "what just happened with Judas and did Jesus really say he is the one who would betray Him?" Then we get the discourse on the Vine and branches in chapter 15. And why verses 15-17 are important as Christ is reassuring them they are not dead branches like Judas Who Christ never 'knew.'

15“No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16“You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17“This I command you, that you love one another.
 
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JM

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But he said a bad tree cannot be in Christ which is a contradiction of verse 2. Not to mention the context of the message is being said to Jesus’ 11 faithful apostles. So why would Jesus warn them of not abiding even explaining the consequences which result in loss of salvation if it is something they are incapable of doing? Here’s another example of a bad tree that is not immediately cut down for not producing fruit but The Lord is patiently waiting giving it an opportunity to bear fruit.

“And he spake this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came seeking fruit thereon, and found none. And he said unto the vinedresser, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why doth it also cumber the ground? And he answering saith unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: and if it bear fruit thenceforth, well; but if not, thou shalt cut it down.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:6-9‬

I don’t know why you call it “playing with Strong’s” I call it seeking the true meaning of what Jesus and John were trying to convey. I have not twisted anything in my explanation and if I have it would be more beneficial for everyone for you to kindly point it out so that I may be corrected in my error. I would very much appreciate that my friend.
Sometimes the harder you look the less you see or you can't see the forest for the trees. Your position is myopic because it refuses to consider the big picture presented in scripture. ex. Baptism for the Dead and Mormons

Yours in the Lord,

jm
 
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BNR32FAN

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Each time you bring up John 15:1-10 you forget to go all the way through verse 17:


15“No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16“You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17“This I command you, that you love one another.

Ok so your saying that because Jesus chose them they cannot fail to abide? Then why does Jesus tell them to abide even explaining to them the consequences of not abiding if they cannot fail? That means the entire message is useless and of no value.
 
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BNR32FAN

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And the below says who He chooses will bear fruit and keep it. Quite a distinction. Unless you think verses 1-10 is for the 11 and us, and verses 15-17 is only for the 11. To do so would be an inconsistency.

15“No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16“You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17“This I command you, that you love one another.

Then Jesus’ entire message is pointless. Jesus told them I chose you so that you would go and bear fruit explaining to them that they must abide otherwise they will face the consequences He mentioned in verse 6. If He was telling them you will undoubtedly abide because I chose you then His message in verses 1-8 are completely useless.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Indeed let's stay with the context which reaches back to John 13 and the washing of feet. What event happened right before Jesus and the 11 left the supper room and headed to Gethsemane? Right, Judas left to betray Jesus and only John and maybe Peter had some knowledge of it but were probably still confused. Yet there was probably questions of "what just happened with Judas and did Jesus really say he is the one who would betray Him?" Then we get the discourse on the Vine and branches in chapter 15. And why verses 15-17 are important as Christ is reassuring them they are not dead branches like Judas Who Christ never 'knew.'

15“No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16“You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17“This I command you, that you love one another.

But according to John 6:64 Judas never believed and according to John 12:6 he was stealing money from the treasury. Judas was never in Christ. Furthermore verses 1-5 Jesus is constantly saying “you must abide, you cannot produce fruit unless you abide, then verse 6 He says “if a man” which also means “anyone” then continues in verses 7-10 again with “you” in His statements indicating this message is for the faithful 11. He says the word “you” about 13 times in verses 1-10. That doesn’t indicate that He was talking about Judas.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Sometimes the harder you look the less you see or you can't see the forest for the trees. Your position is myopic because it refuses to consider the big picture presented in scripture. ex. Baptism for the Dead and Mormons

Yours in the Lord,

jm

I’m sorry friend but I have to see evidence to believe anything. I’ve done a lot of study on this and I just can’t see it any other way that doesn’t contradict it in some way. I learned this in an attempt to debunk it years ago when I believed in eternal security. The more I studied trying to see how this could not contradict eternal security the more evidence I found to the contrary. I have to be true to what I see not what I want to believe but what the scriptures are saying to me. I’m not saying that you or anyone else is not being true to what you see. I’m just speaking for myself in no way implying anything impolite or condescending. I just feel that I must continue to bring this to other Christians attention so that they can be aware of it. Perhaps someday someone will show me evidence that I have missed that will confirm eternal security but so far nobody has been able to.
 
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redleghunter

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Since the high-browed intellectuals of Calvinism can never be wrong about anything, I am sure you must be correct.

Forget 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Galatians 4:24-31, and Hebrews 7:12, and Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 12:18-24.

Forget that God commanded all men to "repent".


Act_3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

Act_8:22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.

Act_17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,


Forget the text of Ephesians 1:13.

.
I’m not seeing how all those isolated verses refute Reformed doctrine. Maybe you could under the verse explain what you think you are refuting.

Most Reformed go with exegesis and by extension examine the Scriptures in an expository manner. A systematic approach.
 
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redleghunter

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This is a warning. Jesus is telling them not to become lazy, lukewarm or unprofitable, that all of us who believe are to work for God’s glory and the lazy servant who doesn’t produce fruit or “profit” will be cut from the vine and be thrown into darkness where there will be weeping and knashing of teeth. Sound familiar? This isn’t the first time Jesus gave this message.
The above is a pretext to fit a theological concept instead of looking at the context and drawing out the truth. The difference between eisegesis and exegesis respectively.

Judas just left. Jesus was reassuring the 11.
 
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redleghunter

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But he said a bad tree cannot be in Christ which is a contradiction of verse 2. Not to mention the context of the message is being said to Jesus’ 11 faithful apostles. So why would Jesus warn them of not abiding even explaining the consequences which result in loss of salvation if it is something they are incapable of doing? Here’s another example of a bad tree that is not immediately cut down for not producing fruit but The Lord is patiently waiting giving it an opportunity to bear fruit.

“And he spake this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came seeking fruit thereon, and found none. And he said unto the vinedresser, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why doth it also cumber the ground? And he answering saith unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: and if it bear fruit thenceforth, well; but if not, thou shalt cut it down.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:6-9‬

I don’t know why you call it “playing with Strong’s” I call it seeking the true meaning of what Jesus and John were trying to convey. I have not twisted anything in my explanation and if I have it would be more beneficial for everyone for you to kindly point it out so that I may be corrected in my error. I would very much appreciate that my friend.
Notice no fruit. It does not tell the story of a previously fruit bearing tree not having fruit or stopping to produce fruit.

See John 15:15-18
 
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