Is "Calvinism" Biblical?

[JM]

Since I teach a young adults Sunday-school class each Sunday morning, you are going to have to come up with something better than the above.

Our Sunday-school guide is "The Gospel Project", which looks at the Bible through the perspective of the New Covenant.

https://www.gospelproject.com/


Each lesson from the Old Testament has a "Christ connection".


Have you become a Seventh Day Adventist?

.

I have to wonder why BA is so hyped up getting others to forsake morality for some relativistic pietism.

Another question for BA...what Law is written on our hearts?

Jeremiah 31:31-33 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The Active Obedience of Christ
Web Page by J Gresham Machen

The Active Obedience of Christ
Web Page by Wayne Grudem
A Defense of the "Active Obedience" of Jesus Christ in the Justification of Sinners
PDF by Brian Schwertley

New Covenant Theology (Definition)
Web Page by Wikipedia Entry
A Comparison of Three Systems: Dispensationalism - Covenant Theology - New Covenant Theology
Web Page by Donald Hochner

Eschatological Fulfilment and the Confirmation of Mosaic Law
Web Page by Greg Welty
A Response to Mike Adams's "In Defense of the New Covenant"
Web Page by Greg Welty

The Active Obedience of Christ in NCT (Part II)
Web Page by Greg Welty
A Response to Steve Lehrer's "Israel: An Unbelieving People"
Web Page by Greg Welty

On Jeremiah 31
PDF by Dr Richard Pratt
The Law and New Covenant Theology
Audio/MP3 by Sam Waldron

John Owen and New Covenant Theology
Web Page by Richard Barcellos
The Moral Law of God - Part 10
Audio/MP3 by Albert Martin

New Covenant Theology
Audio/MP3 by Jim Renihan
Covenant Theology as Seen by the NCT: Part One
Web Page by George Ella

Covenant Theology as Seen by New Covenant Theology: Part Two
Web Page by George Ella
Review (Critique): New Covenant Theology, Tom Wells and Fred Zaspel
Web Page by Richard Barcellos

 

[JM]

BA likes videos so...

 

[BNR32FAN]

It makes perfect sense.

v. 2 "beareth not fruit he taketh away"

v.4 "the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine"

Those not in Christ will not bear fruit. The Confessions are consistent with scripture.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Your not quoting the full message in verse 2.

“Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he taketh it away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he cleanseth it, that it may bear more fruit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2‬

Jesus says every branch “in Me” that beareth not fruit. I would say this would either be a new believer or someone who has become lukewarm.

 

[JM]

Your not quoting the full message in verse 2.

“Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he taketh it away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he cleanseth it, that it may bear more fruit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2‬

Jesus says every branch “in Me” that beareth not fruit. I would say this would either be a new believer or someone who has become lukewarm.

Yes, I get it. There are many nuance's in scripture and theology especially Reformed theology. It's a tapestry woven over the last 2,000 years! so it's best to start with the Reformed confessions of faith and proceed from there.

Who are those 'in Christ' and how did they get there?

1 Corinthians 1:28-30 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, (29) so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. (30) And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,

Once in Christ...we are made new. A new creation.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

So, if you deny God's power to preserve His Saints, you must also deny the ability to return to Christ when we sin. I mean, unless you can be a new creation...born again and again, and again and again...

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes, I get it. There are many nuance's in scripture and theology especially Reformed theology. It's a tapestry woven over the last 2,000 years! so it's best to start with the Reformed confessions of faith and proceed from there.

Who are those 'in Christ' and how did they get there?

1 Corinthians 1:28-30 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, (29) so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. (30) And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,

Once in Christ...we are made new. A new creation.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

So, if you deny God's power to preserve His Saints, you must also deny the ability to return to Christ when we sin. I mean, unless you can be a new creation...born again and again, and again and again...

Yours in the Lord,

jm

“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God: I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So because thou art lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spew thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and have gotten riches, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art the wretched one and miserable and poor and blind and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold refined by fire, that thou mayest become rich; and white garments, that thou mayest clothe thyself, and that the shame of thy nakedness be not made manifest; and eyesalve to anoint thine eyes, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I reprove and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man hear my voice and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. He that overcometh, I will give to him to sit down with me in my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father in his throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:14-21‬

This is a group of believers in the church that have become lukewarm. Again there is a stipulation “IF any man hear my voice and open the door I will come in and He that OVERCOMETH I will give to him to sit down with me”. Jesus is giving these stipulations or conditions to the church. Those who are in the Body of Christ. Why even mention overcoming if we have no choice in the matter? Overcoming would be completely irrelevant according to Calvinism. According to Calvinism we cannot overcome unless we are chosen. I maintain that God enables us to overcome but we must choose to exercise that ability. This same principle is also seen in John 15.

 

[BABerean2]

I have to wonder why BA is so hyped up getting others to forsake morality for some relativistic pietism.

Another question for BA...what Law is written on our hearts?

Jeremiah 31:31-33 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jer 31:32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD.

Do you deny there are two separate sets of commandments in the text below?


Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?


Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


Heb 12:18 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest,
Heb 12:19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore.
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: "AND IF SO MUCH AS A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT SHALL BE STONED OR SHOT WITH AN ARROW."
Heb 12:21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I AM EXCEEDINGLY AFRAID AND TREMBLING.")
Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


Based on the words of Christ in Matthew 5:27-28, the Law of Christ is a higher standard of conduct?
Are you asking others to ignore verse 28?
Do you ignore verse 28?


Can you let go of the Sinai Covenant, and embrace the New Covenant, or are like the Judaisers of long ago? (Acts 15:24)

.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

If what you say is true my friend then the end result could not be that those who fail to abide would be thrown into the fire to be burned. This would still be an impossible outcome for those who are “In Christ” as stated in verses 2.

Ahh but you assume those who fail to abide are "in Christ", not to mention defining what is entailed in failing to abide.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Ahh but you assume those who fail to abide are "in Christ", not to mention defining what is entailed in failing to abide.

I’m sorry I don’t understand what you are saying my friend. Can you please elaborate?

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Therefore the Westminster Confession of Faith's claim that the Sinai Covenant was given to Adam cannot be correct.

Sorry but you have not proven what you think you have, neither does posting references to Scripture make one's statements biblical or true.

The WCF does not claim the Sinai Covenant was given to Adam, and to make this claim is either a gross misunderstanding or simply an attack from the poisonous well of anti-Calvinism fever.

Not many hear the truth, few are chosen, those who are, also receive hatred from men, but Christ was hated first. How I wish it were not so, but it is what it is.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Ahh but you assume those who fail to abide are "in Christ", not to mention defining what is entailed in failing to abide.

I’m not assuming anything my friend John 15:2 specifically says

“Every branch in me (Christ) that beareth not fruit, he taketh it away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he cleanseth it, that it may bear more fruit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2‬

 

[BABerean2]

Sorry but you have not proven what you think you have, neither does posting references to Scripture make one's statements biblical or true.

The WCF does not claim the Sinai Covenant was given to Adam, and to make this claim is either a gross misunderstanding or simply an attack from the poisonous well of anti-Calvinism fever.

Not many hear the truth, few are chosen, those who are, also receive hatred from men, but Christ was hated first. How I wish it were not so, but it is what it is.

I do not hate you, or anyone else who claims their man-made doctrine is the truth.

I do not expect to change your mind.

However, others here are willing to look at what is written in the Westminster Confession of Faith, and what is written in God's Word and see the truth for themselves without forcing the text to fit the man-made doctrines of Reformed Covenant Theology, or Dispensational Theology, or Calvinism.

Apparently, God did not elect me to be a Calvinist.
In the video below we find out why Dr. Leighton Flowers abandoned the doctrine.

Sadly, some Calvinists imply that anyone who is not a Calvinist, is lost.
Some of the Calvinists in the debate below have made that inference.
They have turned their doctrine into a cult.

.

 

[BABerean2]

There are many nuance's in scripture and theology especially Reformed theology. It's a tapestry woven over the last 2,000 years! so it's best to start with the Reformed confessions of faith and proceed from there.

Why not start first with God's Word, instead of a man-made confession?


Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I’m not assuming anything my friend John 15:2 specifically says

“Every branch in me (Christ) that beareth not fruit, he taketh it away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he cleanseth it, that it may bear more fruit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2‬

"And concerning his Father’s care, he tells us, that as the good vine dresser cutteth off those branches in the vine which bring forth no fruit, so his Father will take away such branches in him as bring forth no fruit. But here ariseth a question, viz. Whether, or how, any can be branches in Christ, and yet bring forth no fruit?

Answer.

1. Some say, there is no need of translating the words so, which may as well be translated, Every branch not bringing forth fruit in me. Indeed no true fruit can be brought forth but in Christ; but yet much that looks like fruit, much that men may call fruit, may be brought forth without any true spiritual union with Christ. All acts of moral discipline, or any acts of formal profession in religion, may be brought forth without any true root and foundation in Christ; and God will in the end discover and cut off those who bring forth no other fruit. But:

2. Men may be said to be branches in him, by a sacramental implantation, being baptized into him, Rom 6:3; and are hereby members of the visible church, and make a visible profession of adhering to him, with respect to their own good opinion and persuasions of themselves, though they be not so in respect of any true, spiritual, and real implantation. But those who in the last sense are not in him, bring forth no fruit unto perfection, and God will cut them off, either by withdrawing his restraining grace, and giving them up to strong delusions to believe lies; or to a reprobate mind, and vile lusts and affections; or by taking away their gifts; or some way or other, so as they shall never have an eternal communion with God in glory. But if any man bringeth forth true spiritual fruit in Christ, him God the Father will purge, by the sprinkling of Christ’s blood yet further upon his conscience, Heb 10:22; and by his Holy Spirit working on him like fire, to purge away his dross, and like water, to purge away his filth; and by his word, 1 Peter 1:22, by faith, Act 15:9, by crosses and trials. Isaiah 1:25; Isaiah 27:9; that he may be more fruitful in works of holiness and righteousness." - Matthew Poole
​

You assume a "bad tree" can be in Christ, but it is not so.

Matthew 7:17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.
Matthew 7:18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.
Matthew 12:33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad, for the tree is known by its fruit.
Luke 6:43 “For no good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit,

It is God who converts bad trees into good trees, and good trees produce good fruit.

I find it quite sad when someone views God as cutting off believers for falling short of the glory of God. And people think the Reformed doctrines of election and particular redemption are "limiting". On your view, I do not think anyone will be saved, because everyone bears bad fruit, some worse than others, some better for a time, but only really good when it is God the Holy Spirit working through them to do the will of God. I know this is not the case 24/7, seven days a week, fifty-two weeks a year, for every waking second year in and year out. No doubt there are those who might be so Heavenly minded to think it is the case for them, but they are self-deceived and self-righteous hypocrites unable to look themselves in the mirror and see themselves for who they are. They may even fool the world, but God knows the dark secrets in the hearts of men who put on a righteous show, He knows and sees all.

 

[BNR32FAN]

"And concerning his Father’s care, he tells us, that as the good vine dresser cutteth off those branches in the vine which bring forth no fruit, so his Father will take away such branches in him as bring forth no fruit. But here ariseth a question, viz. Whether, or how, any can be branches in Christ, and yet bring forth no fruit?

Answer.

1. Some say, there is no need of translating the words so, which may as well be translated, Every branch not bringing forth fruit in me. Indeed no true fruit can be brought forth but in Christ; but yet much that looks like fruit, much that men may call fruit, may be brought forth without any true spiritual union with Christ. All acts of moral discipline, or any acts of formal profession in religion, may be brought forth without any true root and foundation in Christ; and God will in the end discover and cut off those who bring forth no other fruit. But:

2. Men may be said to be branches in him, by a sacramental implantation, being baptized into him, Rom 6:3; and are hereby members of the visible church, and make a visible profession of adhering to him, with respect to their own good opinion and persuasions of themselves, though they be not so in respect of any true, spiritual, and real implantation. But those who in the last sense are not in him, bring forth no fruit unto perfection, and God will cut them off, either by withdrawing his restraining grace, and giving them up to strong delusions to believe lies; or to a reprobate mind, and vile lusts and affections; or by taking away their gifts; or some way or other, so as they shall never have an eternal communion with God in glory. But if any man bringeth forth true spiritual fruit in Christ, him God the Father will purge, by the sprinkling of Christ’s blood yet further upon his conscience, Heb 10:22; and by his Holy Spirit working on him like fire, to purge away his dross, and like water, to purge away his filth; and by his word, 1 Peter 1:22, by faith, Act 15:9, by crosses and trials. Isaiah 1:25; Isaiah 27:9; that he may be more fruitful in works of holiness and righteousness." - Matthew Poole
​

You assume a "bad tree" can be in Christ, but it is not so.

Matthew 7:17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.
Matthew 7:18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.
Matthew 12:33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad, for the tree is known by its fruit.
Luke 6:43 “For no good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit,

It is God who converts bad trees into good trees, and good trees produce good fruit.

I find it quite sad when someone views God as cutting off believers for falling short of the glory of God. And people think the Reformed doctrines of election and particular redemption are "limiting". On your view, I do think anyone will be saved, because everyone bears bad fruit, some worse than others, some better for a time, but only really good when it is God the Holy Spirit working through them to do the will of God. I know this is not the case 24/7, seven days a week, fifty-two weeks a year, for every waking second year in and year out. No doubt there are those who might be so Heavenly minded to think it is the case for them, but they are self-deceived and self-righteous hypocrites unable to look themselves in the mirror and see themselves for who they are. They may even fool the world, but God knows the dark secrets in the hearts of men who put on a righteous show, He knows and sees all.

Well that’s one way to view verse 2 but that interpretation doesn’t really hold up to the context of what’s really being said. For example who is Jesus talking to? He’s not talking to hypocrites. He’s talking to His 11 faithful apostles saying to them

“Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; so neither can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for apart from me ye can do nothing.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:4-5‬

Evidently Jesus is saying that even His faithful 11 apostles are capable of not abiding which if they were to remain in such a state without repentance they would face the consequences stated in verse 6 which results in loss of salvation.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I do not hate you, or anyone else who claims their man-made doctrine is the truth.

I do not expect to change your mind.

However, others here are willing to look at what is written in the Westminster Confession of Faith, and what is written in God's Word and see the truth for themselves without forcing the text to fit the man-made doctrines of Reformed Covenant Theology, or Dispensational Theology, or Calvinism.

Apparently, God did not elect me to be a Calvinist.
In the video below we find out why Dr. Leighton Flowers abandoned the doctrine.

Sadly, some Calvinists imply that anyone who is not a Calvinist, is lost.
Some of the Calvinists in the debate below have made that inference.
They have turned their doctrine into a cult.

Sadly you're of the mindset that Calvinism stands or falls on the WCF or LBCF, but I am here to tell you that is not the case. There are many Reformed Confessions which came before the WCF. For example, look up the "Three Forms of Unity". More importantly, no Calvinist equivocates secondary authorities with the authority of Scripture. The Five Solas of the Reformation, including Sola Scriptura are important doctrines, for Calvinists even.

For all the disparaging against Calvinism in your post above (and others), it appears that along with suppressing truth and spreading misconception comes denial.

Although because of so many enemies of Calvinism, I could be tempted to be of the same mindset of "some Calvinists", I stick to historical Calvinism. Seriously, if we examined all the cults in the world, I believe we would find many different basis, including the Bible, which does not make the Bible a cult, which is essentially the fallacy in your statement.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Well that’s one way to view verse 2 but that interpretation doesn’t really hold up to the context of what’s really being said. For example who is Jesus talking to? He’s not talking to hypocrites. He’s talking to His 11 faithful apostles saying to them

“Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; so neither can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for apart from me ye can do nothing.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:4-5‬

Evidently Jesus is saying that even His faithful 11 apostles are capable of not abiding which if they were to remain in such a state without repentance they would face the consequences stated in verse 6 which results in loss of salvation.

Exactly, none of us are capable of abiding in and of ourselves. It is only because of Christ and His righteousness that any abide in Him. All glory to God!

Thank you for sharing those passages of Scripture.

 

[BABerean2]

Sadly you're of the mindset that Calvinism stands or falls on the WCF or LBCF, but I am here to tell you that is not the case.

Since the high-browed intellectuals of Calvinism can never be wrong about anything, I am sure you must be correct.

Forget 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Galatians 4:24-31, and Hebrews 7:12, and Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 12:18-24.

Forget that God commanded all men to "repent".


Act_3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

Act_8:22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.

Act_17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,


Forget the text of Ephesians 1:13.

.

 

[JM]

There is no dialogue at this point BA just you posting videos and scripture without context or comment. You offer a small paragraph here and there sure but nothing substantial. I’m not as young as you BA or have as much free time, I don’t see the need to repeat myself while you ignore me. I’ve presented enough information to sink you and New Covenant theology but you persist. This is entrenchment. This is invincible ignorance. I'm going to place you on my ignore list for a little while, you seem to take our dialogues personally and for those reading this post, this isn't the first time BA has done this to me.

I wish you this BA.

(I know you like videos lol )

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[JM]

Well that’s one way to view verse 2 but that interpretation doesn’t really hold up to the context of what’s really being said. For example who is Jesus talking to? He’s not talking to hypocrites. He’s talking to His 11 faithful apostles saying to them

“Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; so neither can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for apart from me ye can do nothing.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:4-5‬

Evidently Jesus is saying that even His faithful 11 apostles are capable of not abiding which if they were to remain in such a state without repentance they would face the consequences stated in verse 6 which results in loss of salvation.

BNR, this scripture isn't a silver bullet. Play with Strong's all you want it doesn't change or alter the meaning Apologetic Warrior laid out already.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[JM]

Exactly, none of us are capable of abiding in and of ourselves. It is only because of Christ and His righteousness that any abide in Him. All glory to God!

Thank you for sharing those passages of Scripture.

Amen.

I happy this thread was resurrected as it will give others a chance to read the material and, God be praised! come to a fuller understanding of how great our God is.