Is Calvinism a heresy?

[jameslouise]

The (in)famous verse in Revelation 3:20 is not addressed to unbelievers, but to believers in a specific church. It is typically wrenched out of its context and used as an evangelistic tool to persuade people to "invite Jesus into their hearts", a concept found nowhere in the Bible.

I think the 'any man' of Rev 3 :20 has a clear meaning of any man? You think its just believers? Why?

 

[jameslouise]

• Isaiah 45:22 [NLT] "Let all the world look to me for salvation! For I am God; there is no other."
• Acts 4:12 [NLT] "There is salvation in no one else! God has given no other name under heaven by which we must be saved."

I do not believe that "all roads lead to God".
I believe that the Gospel and Jesus Christ matter a great deal.
Yes, it is tragic for those that have never heard ... which makes it critical for US to do something about it so that they can hear!

Romans 10:13-15 [NLT]

For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved." But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them? And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent? That is why the Scriptures say, "How beautiful are the feet of messengers who bring good news!"​

'Yes, it is tragic for those that have never heard', its not just tragic it is completely unfair, a mockery of justice. IMO any person who went to any court in Heaven or Earth who was condemned and had never heard the Gospel or had any 'contact' with the The Holy Spirit would have an unbeatable case?

 

[bbbbbbb]

I think the 'any man' of Rev 3 :20 has a clear meaning of any man? You think its just believers? Why?

Ummmm, because it is addressed to believers in the context of a church. To think otherwise carries some very strange implications, such as all those hundreds of millions, if not billions, of humans who will never "hear His voice" and open the doors of their hearts simply because they will never hear the name of Jesus Christ, nor the gospel in any form whatsoever.

 

[atpollard]

'Yes, it is tragic for those that have never heard', its not just tragic it is completely unfair, a mockery of justice. IMO any person who went to any court in Heaven or Earth who was condemned and had never heard the Gospel or had any 'contact' with the The Holy Spirit would have an unbeatable case?

Nobody is condemned for not hearing the Gospel ... we stand condemned for the sins we so willingly commit:

[Matthew 5:22, 28, 32 NASB95]
22 "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty [enough to go] into the fiery hell. ...
28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. ...
32 but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for [the] reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

[Matthew 22:37-40 NASB95]
And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' "This is the great and foremost commandment. "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

• Who is there that does not stand guilty before God?

The GOSPEL is the key to a PARDON that nobody "DESERVES", it is a gift [unearned] of God's grace [unmerited favor].
JUSTICE is all men in hell (because all men are guilty).
MERCY is God saves some: Romans 9:23-24 [NASB95] "And [He did so] to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, [even] us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles."

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

The rest of your exegesis, I agree with. However, when we get to this:

Then the king entered to see the guests. And he saw a man there who was not clothed in a wedding garment. And he said to him, "Friend, how is it that you have entered here without having a wedding garment?" But he was dumbstruck. Then the king said to the ministers: "Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 22:11-13

I must return to my previous question:

• What is the source of YOUR 'clothing' ... your righteousness or Jesus' righteousness?

The man without a wedding garment was unprepared. So he was expelled. There really is no discussion about the source of wedding garments. So, the question that you ask is not answered in this passage. Other passages deal with works and their role in Christian life. And still other passages deal with whose righteousness is a Christian's when standing at the last judgement.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Catholic teaching holds that a Christian's righteousness is made possible through faith in Jesus Christ and the grace He offers through His death and resurrection. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, "Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favour, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life." (CCC, 1996). This righteousness is imputed to the believer, meaning that Christ's righteousness is credited to the believer's account. This teaching is rooted in scriptural passages such as 2 Corinthians 5:21 which states, "For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." This idea is also expressed in Romans 3:22 which states, "the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe."

 

[Clare73]

Goes to establish who 'those he foreknew are' ie both one and the same and if God predestines everyone to be saved but they decline then Tulip doctrine quickly collapses.

Actually they are not one and the same.

All creation has its being (existence) in/by God (Col 1:17).

However, only the predestined (Ro 8:29-30) are saved.

 

[Clare73]

Catholic teaching holds that a Christian's righteousness is made possible through faith in Jesus Christ and the grace He offers through His death and resurrection. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, "Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favour, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life." (CCC, 1996).

Justification is a sentence of acquittal of guilt, a declaration of not guilty by the Judge, a granting of right standing with the Court. . .time served.
It is the negation of the negative, if you will.

This righteousness is imputed to the believer, meaning that Christ's righteousness is credited to the believer's account. This teaching is rooted in scriptural passages such as 2 Corinthians 5:21 which states, "For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." This idea is also expressed in Romans 3:22 which states, "the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe."

The imputation of Christ's righteousness (Ro 4:1-11) is not a sentence nor declaration, but an assigning or ascribing, a reckoning of Christ's righteousness to the believer as his own.
It is the granting of the positive, if you will.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Justification is a sentence of acquittal of guilt, a declaration of not guilty by the Judge, a granting of right standing with the Court. . .time served.
It is the negation of the negative, if you will.



The imputation of Christ's righteousness (Ro 4:1-11) is not a sentence nor declaration, but an assigning or ascribing, a reckoning of Christ's righteousness to the believer as his own.
It is the granting of the positive, if you will.

The reply is unnecessarily complicated.

 

[linux.poet]

MOD HAT ON​

This thread has been moved
from General Theology
to Denomination Specific Theology.​

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[jameslouise]

Actually they are not one and the same.

All creation has its being (existence) in/by God (Col 1:17).

However, only the predestined (Ro 8:29-30) are saved.

(Col 1:17). interestingly the KJV version translates it as 'by him all things consist' and this makes much more sense to me. i.e Jesus made everything, your take of the above version would seem to mean everything , rocks planets . plants etc are in Jesus,which makes no sense to me.
The Acts “for in Him we live and move and have our being' has IMO a clear and obvious meaning that the 'we' pre-existed in God and the fact that it 'moved and lived' and has a being' means it is not just a prophetic projection.
Another example. and there are quite a few,

 

[jameslouise]

Isiaih 14:13. 'satan' wants to be ' upon a mount of a congregation'-I believe 'congregation' means people, but this is before Satans fall before Adam, so how come?

 

[jameslouise]

Ummmm, because it is addressed to believers in the context of a church. To think otherwise carries some very strange implications, such as all those hundreds of millions, if not billions, of humans who will never "hear His voice" and open the doors of their hearts simply because they will never hear the name of Jesus Christ, nor the gospel in any form whatsoever.

I see no justification For Jesus meaning 'any man in this church'' i also think the Laodicean church may well apply to a specific time in history and also individuals too.
The more i read the bible the more literal i take it-Chuck Missler. I have no problem taking it at face value 'any single person who gets a knock on the door and opens it' Jesus will 'sup' with him and it says what it means. Does The Holy Spirit present Christ to people who have not heard the Gospel. If not then are they all condemned?( Them and all children/babies/unborn unable who die before being able to understand the Gospel?)

 

[atpollard]

Does The Holy Spirit present Christ to people who have not heard the Gospel. If not then are they all condemned?( Them and all children/babies/unborn unable who die before being able to understand the Gospel?)

You assume that WE get to choose who may enter heaven and why - as if our opinions were binding upon God. The BIBLE was written to instruct US how WE might know Jesus and gain eternal life ... what God does with those that lack access to a BIBLE is God's business and, unless God tells us, then it is presumably none of our business.

What God has told us is: "ALL OF HIS WAYS are right" so whatever God does it will be ... wait for it ... the RIGHT thing!

 

[bbbbbbb]

I see no justification For Jesus meaning 'any man in this church'' i also think the Laodicean church may well apply to a specific time in history and also individuals too.
The more i read the bible the more literal i take it-Chuck Missler. I have no problem taking it at face value 'any single person who gets a knock on the door and opens it' Jesus will 'sup' with him and it says what it means. Does The Holy Spirit present Christ to people who have not heard the Gospel. If not then are they all condemned?( Them and all children/babies/unborn unable who die before being able to understand the Gospel?)

If there is no other name under heaven by which we must be saved and if Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life and no one comes to the Father but by Him then the vast majority of humanity will be eternally lost if, for no other reason than they never even heard the name of Jesus Christ.

If, on the other hand, these statements are not true then Christianity is vain and worthless.

 

[Clare73]

Justification is a sentence of acquittal of guilt, a declaration of not guilty by the Judge, a granting of right standing with the Court. . .time served.
It is the negation of the negative, if you will.

The imputation of Christ's righteousness (Ro 4:1-11) is not a sentence nor declaration, but an assigning or ascribing, a reckoning of Christ's righteousness to the believer as his own.
It is the granting of the positive, if you will.

The reply is unnecessarily complicated.

While lack of its awareness results in the confusion of the following definition of justification:

"Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favour, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life."

Whereas, justification, imputation and enablement are three different things.

First of all, justification is simply a declaration/sentence of not guilty,
while imputation is an actual assigning/ascribing/crediting of Christ's righteousness to the born again.
These are simply standings before God; i.e., not guilty; righteous (each a one-time transaction), entitling us to our rights as sons (Jn 1:12-13), which were procured for us by Christ.

While, enablement by the power of the Holy Spirit is a continuous action, following justification (not guilty) and imputation (righteous),
in the ongoing Christian life. . .with enablement being neither justification nor imputation.

When it comes to theology, these distinctions are important to prevent error in their implications.
The first implication being that the actual personal righteousness of a Christian is a work of obedience in the Holy Spirit (Ro 6:16, Ro 6:19), personal righteousness is not simply by imputation. . .and which misunderstanding is seen on this forum.

 

[Clare73]

(Col 1:17). interestingly the KJV version translates it as 'by him all things consist' and this makes much more sense to me.

The Greek word there is en, which is both "in" and "by."

The word "consist" is sunistemi which is "to stand with or fall together, to be constituted, to be compact."

i.e Jesus made everything, your take of the above version would seem to mean everything , rocks planets . plants etc are in Jesus,which makes no sense to me.

No, that means the power in Jesus holds them together, they do not hold together on their own.
If Jesus withdrew his holding power, they could disintegrate.

The Acts “for in Him we live and move and have our being' has IMO a clear and obvious meaning that the 'we' pre-existed in God and the fact that it 'moved and lived' and has a being' means it is not just a prophetic projection.

That is the same thing as above. . .the power in Jesus is our life, motion and being, we do not exist on our own.
If he withdrew his holding power, we would disintegrate.

All creation would disintegrate if Jesus did not sustain it.

 

[splish- splash]

I do not know much about Calvinism but do agree on the predestination bit. The simple verses below do tell me so among many others:

Ecclesiastes 3:11 ►

He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end. Matthew 10:27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”

 

[jameslouise]

The Greek word there is en, which is both "in" and "by."

The word "consist" is sunistemi which is "to stand with or fall together, to be constituted, to be compact."

No, that means the power in Jesus holds them together, they do not hold together on their own.
If Jesus withdrew his holding power, they could disintegrate.



That is the same thing as above. . .the power in Jesus is our life, motion and being, we do not exist on our own.
If he withdrew his holding power, we would disintegrate.

All creation would disintegrate if Jesus did not sustain it.

'The Greek word there is en, which is both "in" and "by." they both mean completely different things, i'll stick with the KJV
'All creation would disintegrate if Jesus did not sustain it.'Maybe, Yeh, Christ behind ZPE. But i do not think the Acts verse is about that.
Acts 17 28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being i think it is clear, it talks about an existence, a life that moves and lives, we move and live and exist on planet earth. And after salvation could be considers to do the same in Jesus and The Holy Spirit and them in us that's for sure, i agree, but the Acts verse describes a time before such salvation is available. How?
There is a point to my points that ultimately refutes Calvinism and TULIP doctrine More below

 

[jameslouise]

'The Greek word there is en, which is both "in" and "by." they both mean completely different things, i'll stick with the KJV
'All creation would disintegrate if Jesus did not sustain it.'Maybe, Yeh, Christ behind ZPE. But i do not think the Acts verse is about that.
Acts 17 28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being i think it is clear, it talks about an existence, a life that moves and lives, we move and live and exist on planet earth. And after salvation could be considers to do the same in Jesus and The Holy Spirit and them in us that's for sure, i agree, but the Acts verse describes a time before such salvation is available. How?
There is a point to my points that ultimately refutes Calvinism and TULIP doctrine More below

Acrs 17 28 describes an existence in God before it can be done by accepting Christ. It also hints we may have this existence because we are his offspring (not because we are one body in Christ)
Eph 1 4 describes men chosen before the foundation of the world-this fits better with them existing then than a prophetic projection.
James 1:16 describes a father of lights, who are these lights
Isaiah 14 12-14, describes Lucifer wanting to be in front of a congregation ( of men) well before Adam, How?
Job 26:4 Job 33:4 Genesis 2:7 Isaiah 42:5 describe a spirit already there not newly created but breathed out or dispatched.
Zech 12:1 uses 'yatsa' to describe forming man's spirit. 'yatsa' is generally is used when the materials are there, like a potter uses clay. Who is the Him in this verse?
2 Tim 1 :9 describes a time when we were given gifts in Christ before the world began. When were we and Christ together?Another prophetic projection as to who we will be? Or were we there in some base spirit form? A light? very similar to Eph 1:3.
Prov 8:21-30 describes a spirit of wisdom (or maybe Solomon Himself) who were present before the Earth was made and were with the sons of men then. How?
i suggest we existed prior to our birth as our 'base' spirit inside God the Father before being breathed out into Adam or dispatched to earth and attached to our body at conception by The Holy Spirit

With all of this in mind the 'For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son' . The those 'he did foreknow' has a plain and simple meaning He did foreknow absolutely everybody and not just the elect that TULIP demands. So God plans before our birth a route for all for salvation, we just have to accept Christ to get it.