Is Calvinism a heresy?

[Clare73]

My reading of the text is it specifically says 'have our being' and this does not sound like a prophetic projection to me but more an actual existence?

Relevance?

 

[atpollard]

Additionally, passages such as Matthew 22:14, where Jesus says "For many are called, but few are chosen." This is interpreted to mean that God calls all people to salvation, but not all accept it.

1. "many" is not the same as "all"; "chosen" is not the same as "accept".
2. In Matthew 22, it is GOD who is doing both the "calling" and "choosing", while your reinterpretation places men in God's seat of control.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

1. "many" is not the same as "all"; "chosen" is not the same as "accept".
2. In Matthew 22, it is GOD who is doing both the "calling" and "choosing", while your reinterpretation places men in God's seat of control.

Isn't your comment consistent with what I wrote?

Additionally, passages such as Matthew 22:14, where Jesus says "For many are called, but few are chosen." This is interpreted to mean that God calls all people to salvation, but not all accept it.​

 

[atpollard]

I think God pre-destinates everyone to be saved, the default is saved, man has to reject Christ not to be.

Please explain how Tezozomoc (son of Itzcoatl) was pre-destinated to be saved? He was the grandfather of Moctezuma II (c. 1466 – 29 June 1520), ruler of the Aztecs, and died before the first Europeans made contact with the native Americans. He was born, lived and died having no chance to hear the name of Jesus Christ, but offering human sacrifices to Aztec gods all his life.

 

[jameslouise]

Relevance?

Goes to establish who 'those he foreknew are' ie both one and the same and if God predestines everyone to be saved but they decline then Tulip doctrine quickly collapses.

 

[atpollard]

Isn't your comment consistent with what I wrote?

Additionally, passages such as Matthew 22:14, where Jesus says "For many are called, but few are chosen." This is interpreted to mean that God calls all people to salvation, but not all accept it.​

No.

Additionally, passages such as Matthew 22:14, where Jesus says "For many are called, but few are chosen." This is interpreted to mean that God calls [many] people to salvation [with the gospel], [and God chooses few to be saved from among the many that are called].​

​

• "many" but not "all" hear the gospel and have an opportunity to believe [Remember the parable of the sower, some seed is snatched up with no chance of taking root.]
• "few" are saved, and it is God that chooses the men, not men who choose God [Remember Abram, Moses and Paul ... God chose them.]

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

No.

Additionally, passages such as Matthew 22:14, where Jesus says "For many are called, but few are chosen." This is interpreted to mean that God calls [many] people to salvation [with the gospel], [and God chooses few to be saved from among the many that are called].​

​

• "many" but not "all" hear the gospel and have an opportunity to believe [Remember the parable of the sower, some seed is snatched up with no chance of taking root.]
• "few" are saved, and it is God that chooses the men, not men who choose God [Remember Abram, Moses and Paul ... God chose them.]

I could accept your work if it used less substitutions. How about

Additionally, passages such as Matthew 22:14, where Jesus says "For many are called, but few are chosen." This is interpreted to mean that God calls all [many] people to salvation, but not all accept it.​

 

[jameslouise]

Please explain how Tezozomoc (son of Itzcoatl) was pre-destinated to be saved? He was the grandfather of Moctezuma II (c. 1466 – 29 June 1520), ruler of the Aztecs, and died before the first Europeans made contact with the native Americans. He was born, lived and died having no chance to hear the name of Jesus Christ, but offering human sacrifices to Aztec gods all his life.

Wendy Alec described The Lord Jesus Christ Himself as describing some people as 'they do not know my word but they know me'. Do you assume that people who have not heard of the Bible cannot be saved? That's not very fair? That's not the God I know? How do you know he wasn't saved in the end?

 

[atpollard]

I could accept your work if it used less substitutions. How about

Additionally, passages such as Matthew 22:14, where Jesus says "For many are called, but few are chosen." This is interpreted to mean that God calls all [many] people to salvation, but not all accept it.​

Romans 9:14-18 [NASB95]

What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." So then it [does] not [depend] on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.​

"...but not all accept it."​

Our "acceptance" is not the horse driving this cart.

Did God ask Abram "Do you accept me as your God?"
Did God ask Moses at the burning bush "I have laid before you a choice: obey Me or reject Me. What will you choose?"
Did Jesus ask Saul on the road to Damascus "Will you accept Me as your Lord and Savior and agree to be my Apostle to the Gentiles?"

... or did God simply lay claim to them as His?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Our "acceptance" is not the horse driving this cart.

the context, a parable of a wedding feast, causes me to doubt the perspective given in your post.

And responding, Jesus again spoke to them in parables, saying:
"The kingdom of heaven is like a man who was king, who celebrated a wedding for his son. And he sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding. But they were not willing to come. Again, he sent other servants, saying,
"Tell the invited: Behold, I have prepared my meal. My bulls and fatlings have been killed, and all is ready. Come to the wedding."
But they ignored this and they went away: one to his country estate, and another to his business. Yet truly, the rest took hold of his servants and, having treated them with contempt, killed them. But when the king heard this, he was angry. And sending out his armies, he destroyed those murderers, and he burned their city. Then he said to his servants:
"The wedding, indeed, has been prepared. But those who were invited were not worthy. Therefore, go out to the ways, and call whomever you will find to the wedding."
And his servants, departing into the ways, gathered all those whom they found, bad and good, and the wedding was filled with guests. Then the king entered to see the guests. And he saw a man there who was not clothed in a wedding garment. And he said to him,
"Friend, how is it that you have entered here without having a wedding garment?"
But he was dumbstruck. Then the king said to the ministers:
"Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen." "​

Matthew 22:1-14

 

[atpollard]

How do you know he wasn't saved in the end?

It was the cutting out of hearts of prisoners taken in war as an offering to Huitzilopochtli to delay the destruction of the world that caused me to doubt his salvation.

 

[jameslouise]

No.

Additionally, passages such as Matthew 22:14, where Jesus says "For many are called, but few are chosen." This is interpreted to mean that God calls [many] people to salvation [with the gospel], [and God chooses few to be saved from among the many that are called].​

​

• "many" but not "all" hear the gospel and have an opportunity to believe [Remember the parable of the sower, some seed is snatched up with no chance of taking root.]
• "few" are saved, and it is God that chooses the men, not men who choose God [Remember Abram, Moses and Paul ... God chose them.]

Dont men choose to open the door? Rev 3 :20? Where does that fit in your timeline? Before beig called, Between called and chosen? Or after chosen?

 

[jameslouise]

It was the cutting out of hearts of prisoners taken in war as an offering to Huitzilopochtli to delay the destruction of the world that caused me to doubt his salvation.

So not the vilest sinner then? How about Paul?

 

[atpollard]

the context, a parable of a wedding feast, causes me to doubt the perspective given in your post.

And responding, Jesus again spoke to them in parables, saying: ​

"The kingdom of heaven is like a man who was king, who celebrated a wedding for his son. And he sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding. But they were not willing to come. Again, he sent other servants, saying, ​

"Tell the invited: Behold, I have prepared my meal. My bulls and fatlings have been killed, and all is ready. Come to the wedding." ​

But they ignored this and they went away: one to his country estate, and another to his business. Yet truly, the rest took hold of his servants and, having treated them with contempt, killed them. But when the king heard this, he was angry. And sending out his armies, he destroyed those murderers, and he burned their city. Then he said to his servants: ​

"The wedding, indeed, has been prepared. But those who were invited were not worthy. Therefore, go out to the ways, and call whomever you will find to the wedding." ​

And his servants, departing into the ways, gathered all those whom they found, bad and good, and the wedding was filled with guests. Then the king entered to see the guests. And he saw a man there who was not clothed in a wedding garment. And he said to him, ​

"Friend, how is it that you have entered here without having a wedding garment?" ​

But he was dumbstruck. Then the king said to the ministers: ​

"Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen." "​

Matthew 22:1-14

"And his servants, departing into the ways, gathered all those whom they found ..."

1. Gospel call scattered broadly.
2. "gathered" = men forced to come, not men freely chose to come.
3. John 6:44-45 [NASB95] "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me."

Then the king said to the ministers:
"Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen."

1. "the KING" does the choosing from among those called, the guest did not do the choosing.
2. What is the source of YOUR 'clothing' ... your righteousness or Jesus' righteousness?
3. John 15:16 [NASB95] "You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and [that] your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you."
4. Ephesians 2:8-9 [NASB95] "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

... "OF GOD" and not "of man".

Soli Deo Gloria!​

 

[atpollard]

Don't men choose to open the door? Rev 3 :20? Where does that fit in your timeline? Before being called, Between called and chosen? Or after chosen?

Revelation 3:14 [NASB95] "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:

1. from a letter to a church.
2. a warning to the saved.
3. it fits after "justification" ... during "sanctification" ... before "glorification".

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

"And his servants, departing into the ways, gathered all those whom they found ..."

1. Gospel call scattered broadly.
2. "gathered" = men forced to come, not men freely chose to come.
3. John 6:44-45 [NASB95] "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me."

Then the king said to the ministers:
"Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen."

1. "the KING" does the choosing from among those called, the guest did not do the choosing.
2. What is the source of YOUR 'clothing' ... your righteousness or Jesus' righteousness?
3. John 15:16 [NASB95] "You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and [that] your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you."
4. Ephesians 2:8-9 [NASB95] "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

... "OF GOD" and not "of man".

Soli Deo Gloria!​

The way you're reading the parable looks wrong.

First we have the invited guests who, out of disrespect for their king, refuse the invitations. Then the mistreatment of the King's servants. And finally the recruitment of the uninvited.

The first group were almost certainly intended to be the Jews, perhaps their leaders specifically. The mistreated servants would likely be the messengers sent by God, prophets and John the Baptist. Lastly the uninvited are likely gentiles who had no historic claim on an invitation. The emphasis is on God, of course, and the people are presented as beneficiaries of God's graces. This is in keeping with the idea expressed previously in my posts of invitations given but not all accepting them. The uninvited are those who never received an invitation nor expected one yet were nonetheless brought to the wedding feast. The guest with inappropriate dress seems to be one who is present but has not prepared so he is expelled.

 

[atpollard]

So not the vilest sinner then? How about Paul?

• Isaiah 45:22 [NLT] "Let all the world look to me for salvation! For I am God; there is no other."
• Acts 4:12 [NLT] "There is salvation in no one else! God has given no other name under heaven by which we must be saved."

I do not believe that "all roads lead to God".
I believe that the Gospel and Jesus Christ matter a great deal.
Yes, it is tragic for those that have never heard ... which makes it critical for US to do something about it so that they can hear!

Romans 10:13-15 [NLT]

For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved." But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them? And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent? That is why the Scriptures say, "How beautiful are the feet of messengers who bring good news!"​

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

In summary
Matthew 22:1-14 is known as the Parable of the Wedding Banquet in the Catholic tradition. In this parable, Jesus tells the story of a king who throws a wedding banquet for his son and invites many guests. However, the guests refuse to come and some even kill the king's messengers. The king then invites all the poor, crippled, blind, and lame to the banquet, and they come and fill the banquet hall.

One interpretation of this parable in the Catholic tradition is that the king represents God, the son represents Jesus, and the guests represent the Israelites, who were invited to partake in the salvation offered by God through Jesus, but refused to come. The poor, crippled, blind, and lame represent the Gentiles, who were not originally part of God's chosen people, but are now welcomed into the kingdom of God through faith in Jesus.

This parable can also be interpreted as a reminder to the Catholic that God's invitation is open to all, and that salvation is not limited to a select few, and that everyone is welcomed to the banquet hall of eternal life.

References: -Matthew 22:1-14

• Luke 14:15-24
• Isaiah 25:6-8
• Revelation 19:6-9

 

[atpollard]

The rest of your exegesis, I agree with. However, when we get to this:

The guest with inappropriate dress seems to be one who is present but has not prepared so he is expelled.

I must return to my previous question:

• What is the source of YOUR 'clothing' ... your righteousness or Jesus' righteousness?

This is a fundamental area where Catholics and the Reformers have historically disagreed. I see all "good works" as fruit arising from a transformation caused by our justification and the Catholic Church has traditionally seen "good works" and "faith" working hand in hand to effect salvation (another term with subtle differences in definition).

At this point, we agree more than we disagree, but our remaining differences are better served by "shaking hands" and agreeing to disagree. You are unlikely to convert me to Catholicism and I am unlikely to convert you to a Particular Baptist [nor would I desire to try - as a 'Calvinist', I believe that changing hearts and minds is God's job and not my job.]

 

[bbbbbbb]

Dont men choose to open the door? Rev 3 :20? Where does that fit in your timeline? Before beig called, Between called and chosen? Or after chosen?

The (in)famous verse in Revelation 3:20 is not addressed to unbelievers, but to believers in a specific church. It is typically wrenched out of its context and used as an evangelistic tool to persuade people to "invite Jesus into their hearts", a concept found nowhere in the Bible.