Is belief enough to be saved?

[Lindas Place]

Paul is in the cannon for a reason. But we would not agree on that reason.

This is a highly spiritual matter. All I say here is that it's wise to *very carefully* compare his quotations to the OT to see if they match up - and to read the context of where those quotes come from. Most bibles contain a divider section where you can see where the quote is from so as to look it up for yourself.

2 Peter 3
15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

 

[Lindas Place]

No. There are, however, some useful websites out there in analyzing Paul of Tarsus and his writings. One is:

Jesus words Only - Jesus words as the sole inspired portion of the New Testament Scripture.

This is one reason I am not attending a church. The teaching is almost always a flood of Paul.

And Messiah and the Torah is almost always marginalized.

If you don't believe Paul, you don't believe Peter's testimony concerning Paul's writings.... if you don't believe Paul or Peter, why believe any of the writers? if they were liars, why would you believe they wrote the truth of "what Jesus said"... ?

You would not know what parts to believe and what not to believe… this is false teaching saying that God’s word can not be trusted…

 

[Habakk]

If you don't believe Paul, you don't believe Peter's testimony concerning Paul's writings.... if you don't believe Paul or Peter, why believe any of the writers? if they were liars, why would you believe they wrote the truth of "what Jesus said"... ?

You would not know what parts to believe and what not to believe… this is false teaching saying that God’s word can not be trusted…

That is absolutely true; we have the canon of scripture for a reason.

Unfortunately there are a lot of theories concerning Paul and his writings that lead many into confusion. Some people seem to have the extraordinary ability to “knit with fog,” but when you do examine their theories more closely they are highly speculative and based and upon circular reasoning. Knowing scripture we can see just how Paul and the other apostles expound doctrine to the church by the revelation of the OT scriptures. Justification is not just a dispensational doctrine from law to grace it is also derived from the foundation to the message central to the book of Habakkuk and other OT scripture. In fact grace and mercy are central throughout scripture. The message to Habakkuk being the revealed word of God and dispensationalism being a doctrine derived and reasoned from scripture.

One piece of the puzzle in the current discussion is the notion or apparent misconception that Paul may be impersonating Peter in the writing of 2 Peter or that Peter was not the authour. This of course is pure speculation and unsubstantiated circular reason. But a pattern is being woven and the fog thickens for some.

 

[St_Worm2]

This is a rather novel idea - that not all the NT is from God.

It's less "novel" than you might think. Christ, through Paul, gives us a fairly steady diet of doctrine (at least when compared to the Gospels and Acts), that teach us pretty specifically not only how we are saved, but which kinds of things please AND displease God ... and that is usually where the "rub" comes in.

Most who find themselves at odds with something that Paul teaches (it's usually about some social issue that is near and dear to their hearts), try to say that Paul wasn't wrong, it's the church not really understanding what Paul meant that's the problem.

Others however, who perhaps find it difficult to argue against the commonly held interpretation of Paul's Epistles, attempt to silence Paul in a different way. Rather than blaming their particular issue on a misunderstanding, they try to invalidate EVERYTHING he wrote by claiming that his words are just that, "his" words, not the words of God (and that his Epistles therefore, should have never been part of the Canon).

--David

 

[Shades of Gray]

If you don't believe Paul, you don't believe Peter's testimony concerning Paul's writings.... if you don't believe Paul or Peter, why believe any of the writers? if they were liars, why would you believe they wrote the truth of "what Jesus said"... ?

You would not know what parts to believe and what not to believe… this is false teaching saying that God’s word can not be trusted…

2 Timothy 3:16-17: "16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

The Epistles of Paul are included in the "all Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work" (2 Timothy 3:16-17). It has been affirmed in Scripture, God directly inspired what has been written in His Word (1 Corinthians 2:12-13; 2 Timothy 3:16-17; 2 Peter 1:21) and He preserves His Word (Psalms 12:6-7; Psalms 33:11; Psalms 100:5; Psalms 111:7-8; Psalms 117:2; Psalms 119:89-90, 152, 160; Isaiah 40:8; 1 Peter 1:23), as the prophet Isaiah described, "from henceforth and forever" (Isaiah 59:21). In fact, His Word is alive and sharper than any two-edged sword (Hebrews 4:12-13). It has been affirmed in Scripture that every word He speaks is pure (Proverbs 30:5-6), perfect (Psalms 18:30; Psalms 19:7), absolute truth (Psalms 119:16), and eternal (Psalms 119:89). The entirety of His word is truth (Psalms 119:16) and everlasting (Proverbs 8:23), being settled in heaven (Psalms 119:189), it stands forever (Isaiah 40:8; 1 Peter 1:25), and will not return to Him in void (Isaiah 55:11). His counsel and His righteous judgments stand forever (Psalms 33:11; Psalms 119:16).

He is the living God and the everlasting King (Jeremiah 10:10), from everlasting to everlasting, He is God (Deuteronomy 33:27; Psalm 90:2; 1 Timothy 1:17), and there is no shadow of turning with Him (James 1:17). He does not change (Malachi 3:6; James 1:17) nor does He lie (Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29). He is perfect (Psalms 18:30; Matthew 5:48) and so is His Word (Psalms 18:30; Psalms 19:7). He is referred to in His Word as an all consuming fire (Isaiah 6:3; Habakkuk 1:13; Exodus 3:2, 4-5; Hebrews 12:29), infinite (Deuteronomy 33:27; Psalm 90:2; 1 Timothy 1:17), unchanging (Malachi 3:6; Numbers 23:19; Psalm 102:26, 27), incomparable (2 Samuel 7:22; Psalm 86:8; Isaiah 40:25; Matthew 5:48), unfathomable (Isaiah 40:28; Psalm 145:3; Romans 11:33, 34), incorruptible (Psalm 117:2; 1 Samuel 15:29), and unequaled (2 Samuel 7:22; Isaiah 40:25). He is omnipotent (Revelation 19:6; Jeremiah 32:17, 27), omnipresent (Psalm 139:7-13; Jeremiah 23:23), and omniscient (Psalm 139:1-5; Proverbs 5:21; 1 John 3:20). He is also just (Acts 17:31), loving (Ephesians 2:4-5), truthful (John 14:6), holy (1 John 1:5), merciful (Romans 9:15), full of grace and compassion (Romans 5:17; 2 Corinthians 1:3). He offers forgiveness through His Son Jesus Christ(Psalm 130:4; Isaiah 53:4-6; John 15:15; Acts 4:12; Romans 5:10; Ephesians 1:7; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 2:10). And He promises to be found by those who seek after Him with all their heart (Jeremiah 29:13) and have faith in Him (Hebrews 11:6).

If a professing Christian does not believe and fully trust in what God has had written in the Scriptures (which within themselves make the claim that ALL scripture is God-breathed) than how can they believe and fully trust in God for their own salvation?I cannot help but wonder if these same professing Christians think God lied or He was somehow mistaken when He said that ALL Scripture is given by His inspiration, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. I personally believe that God's Word is the sole authority for the Christian faith and practice. If I don't believe what someone has told me, it is because I don't trust them enough to take them at their word. Such a person has not earned my trust or my devotion. However, this is not the case when it concerns my Heavenly Father.

 

[Montalban]

The title is misleading. He mainly deals with Paul of Tarsus.

I'm convinced John, the disciple Messiah loved, is right where he is supposed to be. And James. And Jude.

I don't like circular logic based on a person acting as their own personal pope.

I'd rather go with what the church has to say about scripture

 

[St_Worm2]

As humans we can do anything. That still doesn't negate the fact that mere belief is not enough Christ said if we love him we will do as He commands and in James He reiterates that it's not just belief. Throughout we are commanded to do good works for that day.

Hi WhiteTiger, there are several things, but I'll start with these few. You stated,

"mere belief is not enough .. Christ said if we love him we will do as He commands and in James He reiterates that it's not just belief"
​

Can't argue with that (and neither does John Calvin for that matter) ..

"We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone." John Calvin
​

You continue:

"Throughout we are commanded to do good works for that day."
​

"That day" = the Great White Throne or the day of Judgment, yes? (just want to be clear)

You then go on to say that "throughout the Bible we are commanded to do good works for that day". Except for Matthew 25 (which is not referring to the "Day of Judgment" BTW, just read the passage), where are all the rest of the verses found that command us to do works for "that day" (IOW, works that have a direct bearing on whether we will be saved or not)?

Thanks! (BTW, I don't need a million passages of Scripture to have a point proven to me. The three or four that you believe best demonstrate your point will do nicely)

--David

 

[whitetiger1]

Yes, the white throne

 

[Rick Otto]

I guess everyone is there own pope when they choose which church to join.
Who convinces them? Themselves. One here who objects the most even admitted as much.

 

[Stravinsk]

However Paul is not really saying that.

I once had a Russian friend who was asked a question by a westerner; the question associated with the former communist government and was in two parts. First he was asked when he was saved; was it in recent times after perestroika or during the communist persecution. Then secondly he was asked if he thought it was easier to be saved now that the communist restrictions on the church have loosened. His answer was along these lines; first he was saved before the foundation of the world and secondly if God wanted him saved how could any communist really prevent God’s will from happening. I’m not saying that he was right but it certainly captures a little of what Paul was teaching Christians in times of suffering and persecution. God’s will is sovereign, man’s will or man’s government is not. Governments are raised and fall only within the purposes of God’s will.

God through Joseph, helped the nation of Egypt to survive, flourish and become great in a time of famine. The same God brought the nation of Egypt down through Moses and the Hebrew slaves. He allowed the sins of the Amorites to be fulfilled that he might also judge that nation by the obedience of his chosen people and give them a home.

Luke 4:5-6

Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him[d] all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 And the devil said to Him, “All this authority I will give You, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7 Therefore, if You will worship before me, all will be Yours.”

John 18:36

Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

Acts 4:26 (Psalm 2:1-2)

‘Why did the nations rage,
And the people plot vain things?
26 The kings of the earth took their stand,
And the rulers were gathered together
Against the Lord and against His Christ.

-----------------------------------------------

But Paul says :

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

Hosea 8: Set the trumpet[a] to your mouth!
He shall come like an eagle against the house of the Lord,
Because they have transgressed My covenant
And rebelled against My law.
2 Israel will cry to Me,
‘My God, we know You!’
3 Israel has rejected the good;
The enemy will pursue him. 4 “They set up kings, but not by Me;They made princes, but I did not acknowledge them.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hey - let's not forget - that Paul, ultimately - appealed to an earthly ruler - Caesar - to establish his innocence. (Acts 25:12)



That Caesar was the evil ruler Nero


That's included in the persons Paul's "god" established government.

John 19:15

But they cried out, “Away with Him, away with Him! Crucify Him!” Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar!”

Same one Paul acknowledges.

Getting the drift now?

 

[Rick Otto]

Easy for him to say, he was an educated citizen with rights.
It was a general rule. Principles supercede rules under appropriate circumstances.

 

[Eternally Optimistic]

Hi guys, I am a Christian but I have a question about whether or not belief in God is enough to be saved.

Here are some verses that show that belief = salvation.







You guys get the point. And this sounds great. But, what about this?



The way I understand it, "belief" in Jesus Christ isn't enough to be saved. True belief in Jesus will result in fruit that is evident by a lifestyle change, a heart change: that you want nothing else to do with the world that satisfies the needs of the flesh but really only care about satisfying God and being led by the Spirit.

However, if this is the case, what do we make of the first 3 verses I posted? They clearly seem to state that belief is all that is needed for salvation.

Can somebody please shine a light on this issue for me? I think how we understand salvation really changes how we live our lives and especially how we evangelize to others (in other words, if belief isn't enough to be saved, we shouldn't be spreading that as a final end).

Thank you for your help.

as corny as this sounds, you can't spell believe without live.

Thus to believe the faith is to live the faith. Recognizing that does not negate the first three verses, but rather enhances them I think.

 

[Montalban]

If belief was all we needed then God merely had to say he was here.

 

[Lindas Place]

Here’s what Peter preached… Acts 10

Telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. v.36

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him. v. 38

They killed him by hanging him on a tree, v. 39
God raised him from the dead on the third day v. 40

He is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. v. 42

Everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name." v. 43

the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. v. 44
the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out v. 45


And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory Ephesians 1:13-14

 

[Wally Cleaver]

believe - be lieve - be live - by live - live by

 

[Lindas Place]

John 17:6-8
I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they HAVE obeyed your word. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

John 12:44
Then Jesus cried out, “When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me.

 

[Lindas Place]

Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand.
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance:

that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
that he was buried,
that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

Whether, then, it was I or they,
this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.
1 Corinthians 15: 1-4 & 11

 

[Montalban]

I still don't get random bible verses.

 

[Rick Otto]

Hard to see past tradition's blinders.

 

[patricius79]

Hi guys, I am a Christian but I have a question about whether or not belief in God is enough to be saved.

Here are some verses that show that belief = salvation.







You guys get the point. And this sounds great. But, what about this?



The way I understand it, "belief" in Jesus Christ isn't enough to be saved. True belief in Jesus will result in fruit that is evident by a lifestyle change, a heart change: that you want nothing else to do with the world that satisfies the needs of the flesh but really only care about satisfying God and being led by the Spirit.

However, if this is the case, what do we make of the first 3 verses I posted? They clearly seem to state that belief is all that is needed for salvation.

Can somebody please shine a light on this issue for me? I think how we understand salvation really changes how we live our lives and especially how we evangelize to others (in other words, if belief isn't enough to be saved, we shouldn't be spreading that as a final end).

Thank you for your help.

according to Scripture we must put to death the deeds of the flesh and suffer with Christ in order to be saved Rom 8:13, 17 (I think that is the right verse)

"he who endures to the end will be saved"