Is belief enough to be saved?

[FredVB]

How do you suppose that being holy is even possible?

Another important distinction to make here I think: there's a difference in wanting to possess the power and authority of God, and wanting His nature. There's no sin in desiring to be as God is in character.

Yahweh is Holy and it involves various things about him. He is faultless in complete righteousness, and his holiness includes all the good and righteous things of his works and all he does, and it is with love without limit. Evil things that have been done are not from him, but he allows the consequence of sin for some duration of time, while redeemed in righteousness are separated from wicked and unregenerate, but such will come to an end in righteousness with judgment.

We can not be holy in all those ways. If we are redeemed, we are called to be holy in the way we are enabled, as he is, we are to become faultless in how we live, in obedience, going far in that to be holy as the Father, but we could never be like him in all the righteous things he does.

 

[Montalban]

They know about him... but clearly they don''t know him as Savior.

It says that they believe.

That's the whole thing about the devil, he knows that God is God, but he rejects him all the same.

You've still not resolved why we've got posts telling us what to 'do' (works).

Nor have you said why the Incarnation of Jesus doesn't matter

The condition about "If you are the Son of God" isn't that he doesn't know. Someone can say to me "If you were a man, you'd go over and tell the neighbour off". Clearly I am a man.

 

[Lindas Place]

It says that they believe.

That's the whole thing about the devil, he knows that God is God, but he rejects him all the same.

You've still not resolved why we've got posts telling us what to 'do' (works).

Nor have you said why the Incarnation of Jesus doesn't matter

The condition about "If you are the Son of God" isn't that he doesn't know. Someone can say to me "If you were a man, you'd go over and tell the neighbour off". Clearly I am a man.

People believe there is one God too... but that does not mean they believe in Jesus... there are also people who believe in a different Jesus... none of which will save... believing there is one God... as the demons do, will not save anyone... believing in Jesus Saves... as for works... we can do nothing apart from Jesus... with Jesus all things are possible. as to your comment on Jesus doesn't matter, I'm not in that conversation... nor do I want to be... I don't think anyone here has said that... maybe I missed it.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

They believe in Jesus, according to James.

According to James, they believe that there is one God...

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble.
James 2;19​

They believe that Jesus is the Son of God according to Matthew 8:28-32

28 When He had come to the other side, to the country of the Gergesenes, there met Him two demon-possessed men, coming out of the tombs, exceedingly fierce, so that no one could pass that way. 29 And suddenly they cried out, saying, “What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”

30 Now a good way off from them there was a herd of many swine feeding. 31 So the demons begged Him, saying, “If You cast us out, permit us to go away into the herd of swine.”

32 And He said to them, “Go.” So when they had come out, they went into the herd of swine. And suddenly the whole herd of swine ran violently down the steep place into the sea, and perished in the water.​

I just wanted to put my 2 cents in there.

 

[Lindas Place]

Lot’s of people believe there is one God, as demons believe…. Which is the scripture in question… But what does it mean to believe? What must we believe to be saved? that there is one God? No…

Believing in Jesus means we believe the gospel… we believe that Jesus died in our place, because of our sin, for the forgiveness of our sin, restoring us to God, in a new covenant relationship… Jesus death, burial and resurrection… is the gospel by which we are saved…

and this is much different than just believing there is one God… that belief will save no one.

 

[Montalban]

People believe there is one God too... but that does not mean they believe in Jesus

This is the point. Mere belief in, is not enough. That's why Jesus says "Not all who cry "Lord! Lord!" will be saved but those that do the will of God.

Moslems believe in Jesus.

Having faith is not enough

 

[Montalban]

Lot’s of people believe there is one God, as demons believe….

That's why faith without works is dead

 

[Lindas Place]

This is the point. Mere belief in, is not enough. That's why Jesus says "Not all who cry "Lord! Lord!" will be saved but those that do the will of God.

Moslems believe in Jesus.

Having faith is not enough

Not everyone who say’s to me Lord Lord…. This is more GOOD NEWS! For those who’s faith is in Christ.

They do not acknowledge Jesus is Lord.
Matthew 7
13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
15 Watch out for false prophets.

I (Jesus) am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. John 10:9

They do not look to Jesus for salvation.
Matthew 7
21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:40

They rely on their works for salvation.
Matthew 7
22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

Jesus “NEVER” knew them.
Matthew 7
23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame." Romans 9:31-33
　
his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work.
If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward.
If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; HE HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED,
but only as one escaping through the flames. 1 Corinthians 3 13-15

 

[Montalban]

Not everyone who say’s to me Lord Lord…. This is more GOOD NEWS! For those who’s faith is in Christ.

Except that you quote scriptures that show Jesus never knows those who do not do particular works - because faith alone was not enough.

The early Christian church was known as "The Way" because Jesus said "I am the Way" (not "I am the Faith"), which is why we have "ACTS of the Apostles", not "Faith of the Apostles"

You can't have right faith without right works

 

[Albion]

Except that you quote scriptures that show Jesus never knows those who do not do particular works - because faith alone was not enough.

The early Christian church was known as "The Way" because Jesus said "I am the Way" (not "I am the Faith"), which is why we have "ACTS of the Apostles", not "Faith of the Apostles"

You can't have right faith without right works

Then we are all agreed. If you don't produce works, your "faith" is insincere and, therefore, not a genuine faith that saves.

 

[whitetiger1]

Screen Door - YouTube

 

[Montalban]

Then we are all agreed. If you don't produce works, your "faith" is insincere and, therefore, not a genuine faith that saves.

If you say faith and works must go together then we do agree.

 

[Keachian]

Is my stance that works are produced and are a fruit of right faith all that different?

 

[Lindas Place]

Except that you quote scriptures that show Jesus never knows those who do not do particular works - because faith alone was not enough.

The early Christian church was known as "The Way" because Jesus said "I am the Way" (not "I am the Faith"), which is why we have "ACTS of the Apostles", not "Faith of the Apostles"

You can't have right faith without right works

We are saved “by grace” through faith… Paul say’s that grace (which is God’s love for us) is what produces works, by the working of God’s power… the bible say’s the work required is to believe on the one God sent, Jesus… that is the requirement… for the grace that produces works by the working of God’s power… so if you want people to do works, preach grace... and watch God work....

 

[Montalban]

Is my stance that works are produced and are a fruit of right faith all that different?

Yes. We're called to do good works. If good works were an automatic thing produced by a changed state then there'd be no reason for Jesus to ask us to do them.

It also has something to do with 'free will'

 

[Montalban]

We are saved “by grace” through faith… Paul say’s that grace (which is God’s love for us) is what produces works, by the working of God’s power… the bible say’s the work required is to believe on the one God sent, Jesus… that is the requirement… for the grace that produces works by the working of God’s power… so if you want people to do works, preach grace... and watch God work....

You've not touched upon what place 'works' have

 

[Lindas Place]

You've not touched upon what place 'works' have

and you have not touched upon the power of God...

 

[Lindas Place]

Yes. We're called to do good works. If good works were an automatic thing produced by a changed state then there'd be no reason for Jesus to ask us to do them.

It also has something to do with 'free will'

Does our Heavenly Father, or for that matter, even our earthly fathers ask our permission to discipline us?

 

[Montalban]

and you have not touched upon the power of God...

 

[whitetiger1]

Works are not automatic we must choose to do them and without them no faith is there.