Is Baptismal Regeneration False?

[John the Ex-Baptist]

It is not inconceivable that an infant could be regenerate and have faith. I'm simply asking why you believe that a baptized infant certainly does have faith.

I believe so on account of the fact that it has nothing to do with the infant possessing faith to begin with, but He who has promised being faithful to His Word.


Acts 2:37–39 (ESV)

37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

 

[Tree of Life]

I believe so on account of the fact that it has nothing to do with the infant possessing faith to begin with, but He who has promised being faithful to His Word.


Acts 2:37–39 (ESV)

37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

I don't see an assurance in this promise that all who are baptized will certainly be regenerated.

Part of our disagreement may consist in our view of regeneration. I don't believe that regeneration can be lost. I suppose you do believe it can be lost.

 

[John the Ex-Baptist]

That sounds like my view. But I don't call my view baptismal regeneration.

What you call your view of baptism is entirely your prerogative obviously, but my own personal reason for adopting that label is because I believe that "it does what it says on the tin" so to speak. The regeneration aspect is the work of God bringing the spiritually dead to life in Christ, and the sacrament of baptism Christ ordained, is the gift we have been given to personally connect with His redeeming work.

It is not a work we do, but it is a work done to us. It is a work carried out by another person applying the water in faith as commanded by God in the literal sense. And it is ultimately the work of God He has promised to do, in, with and under the water according to His promise.


Colossians 2:9–14 (ESV)

9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

If you are someone opposed to the doctrine of baptismal regeneration, please give your reasons for being opposed, and preferably back up your argument from the text of Scripture.

Are you referring to water or Holy Spirit Baptism ?

 

[John the Ex-Baptist]

I don't believe that regeneration can be lost. I suppose you do believe it can be lost.

You hit the nail on the head with that one! This is why I left a note earlier in the thread that this issue would not be used to hijack the thread. Not that I don't think it a worthwhile discussion to be had, but that it would be impossible to address both issues properly in one thread. Maybe it might be worth opening another one accordingly?

 

[John the Ex-Baptist]

Are you referring to water or Holy Spirit Baptism ?

I'm referring to the baptism Christ commanded:

Matthew 28:18–20 (ESV)

18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

That the apostle Peter referred to on the day of Pentecost, that he said was for the forgiveness of our sins, and the receipt of the promised Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:38 (ESV)

38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The one baptism, and one Spirit that the apostle Paul acknowledges too:

Ephesians 4:4–7 (ESV)

4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

That's the baptism I'm referring to. Why is there another?

 

[YeshuaFan]

If you are someone opposed to the doctrine of baptismal regeneration, please give your reasons for being opposed, and preferably back up your argument from the text of Scripture.

Paul states to us that we are justified freely before God by faith in the lord Jesus, not by any other means!

 

[Sola1517]

If you are someone opposed to the doctrine of baptismal regeneration, please give your reasons for being opposed, and preferably back up your argument from the text of Scripture.

Because although baptism is the sign of the new covenant replacing circumcision, in Galatians 6:15 it says circumcision doesn't count for anything but a new creation does. Paul also says in Galatians 3:26 that all who are in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. Not through baptism. 1 Peter 3:21 which says that baptism saves actually uses the word sozo, which means to keep one safe and sound in connection with baptisma, which is the Christian rite of immersion. It is an eperotema, an earnest desire for a good conscience. It cannot regenerate, because regeneration is something that God does to bring us to life, it's not something we do. Btw, I used Blue letter Bible to understand 1 Peter 3:21. I'm no Greek scholar but I try to figure things out.

 

[John the Ex-Baptist]

Paul states to us that we are justified freely before God by faith in the lord Jesus, not by any other means!

Am I correct in assuming you refer to Romans 5:1, or is it elsewhere? With all due respect, it is far more helpful to accurately quote the Scripture we refer to, when we are claiming to base our argument upon it. Saves a lot of time and misunderstanding.

 

[John the Ex-Baptist]

Because although baptism is the sign of the new covenant replacing circumcision, in Galatians 6:15 it says circumcision doesn't count for anything but a new creation does.

Thanks @Sola1517 for your reply. I believe that Paul makes that statement in Gal 6:15 due to the theme of the letter to the Galatians, which has been written predominantly against the false teaching of the Judaizers, who insisted upon the circumcision of Christians. But as you quite rightly point out, baptism corresponds to the sign of circumcision given to Abraham, and also that what is crucial is a new creation.

What I would like to point out is that elsewhere, these same matters are spoken of in relation to baptism, and the new life:

Romans 6:3–4 (ESV)

3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

Colossians 2:9–15 (ESV)

9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.

2 Corinthians 5:17 (ESV)

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Note in these texts that in order for us to be the creation God calls for, it is necessary that we are to be found in Christ. The process of baptism is the way in which God has promised this to be the case for those who believe. This is not to deny the power that saves is the redeeming power of God carried out spiritually, by Him putting off the body of our flesh by the circumcision of Christ. But that it is directly in our baptism Col 2:12 that the Bible ties the two together. It is in our baptism that we are united with Christ in His death and resurrection life as a new creature.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

That's the baptism I'm referring to. Why is there another?[/QUOTE]

Yes this one...
"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

As far as I can tell through scripture, Christ did not water baptize. I believe in both water and Holy Spirit. One having symbolism the other having power.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Not what Calvin thought.

That's okay. Calvin was not an apostle.
If he got it correct he would have been a reformed Baptist like the apostles were.

 

[Tree of Life]

That's okay. Calvin was not an apostle.
If he got it correct he would have been a reformed Baptist like the apostles were.

Hah! I believe the first baptist rebaptized folks in England in 1609. His name was John Smyth.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

I'm referring to the baptism Christ commanded:

Matthew 28:18–20 (ESV)

18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

That the apostle Peter referred to on the day of Pentecost, that he said was for the forgiveness of our sins, and the receipt of the promised Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:38 (ESV)

38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The one baptism, and one Spirit that the apostle Paul acknowledges too:

Ephesians 4:4–7 (ESV)

4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

That's the baptism I'm referring to. Why is there another?

Spirit baptism, water baptism, baptism of suffering, baptism as an identification, 1 cor 10...baptized unto moses

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Hah! I believe the first baptist rebaptized folks in England in 1609. His name was John Smyth.

I believe it was Jesus and the Apostles passed in in the great commission mt28

 

[John the Ex-Baptist]

That's the baptism I'm referring to. Why is there another?

Yes this one...
"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

As far as I can tell through scripture, Christ did not water baptize. I believe in both water and Holy Spirit. One having symbolism the other having power.

How do you justify your view of two baptisms, in the light of the texts I've quoted? I understand John the Baptist saying what he did, especially in the light of the fact that it was prior to the death, resurrection and glorification of Christ. But the quotes I gave from the apostles Peter and Paul, were both made after the death and resurrection of Christ.

Paul stating there is one baptism, and Peter that through being baptized in the name of Christ, we receive the promised Holy Spirit.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

How do you justify your view of two baptisms, in the light of the texts I've quoted? I understand John the Baptist saying what he did, especially in the light of the fact that it was prior to the death, resurrection and glorification of Christ. But the quotes I gave from the apostles Peter and Paul, were both made after the death and resurrection of Christ.

Paul stating there is one baptism, and Peter that through being baptized in the name of Christ, we receive the promised Holy Spirit.

Yes...Spirit baptism was a one time event to start the nt church, like the shekinah glory credentialed the temple
It is applied to believers when they are quickened, regenerated. Notice 1 cor 10 all were baptized unto moses in the first exodus
..they did not get wet like the Egyptian soldiers.
They were identified with Him.
In the New Exodus all believers are identified with the Lord Jesus Christ eternally in union with Him.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Water baptism is to be an outward witness to the new birth.

 

[Not David]

Water baptism is to be an outward witness to the new birth.

That's not even the stuff the Reformers believed.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

How do you justify your view of two baptisms, in the light of the texts I've quoted? I understand John the Baptist saying what he did, especially in the light of the fact that it was prior to the death, resurrection and glorification of Christ. But the quotes I gave from the apostles Peter and Paul, were both made after the death and resurrection of Christ.

Paul stating there is one baptism, and Peter that through being baptized in the name of Christ, we receive the promised Holy Spirit.

Well first it is not my view, it is the view of those who were never indoctrinated or subscribed to the RC definition of Baptism. And of course our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth defined the difference between water and Holy Spirit Baptism in this verse before He ascended. The power of the Holy Spirit. This a promise to all believers, if you believe. It does not come from water, it comes from on High.
Blessings

Acts 1
4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be [c]witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”