Is baptism necessary to be saved?

[Crusader]

Cyprian Epistle LXXI.1 To Stephen, Concerning a Council.

when they come to us and to the Church which is one, ought to be baptized, for the reason that it is a small matter2 to "lay hands on them that they may receive the Holy Ghost," unless they receive also the baptism of the Church. For then finally can they be fully sanctified, and be the sons of God, if they be born of each sacrament;3 since it is written, "Except a man be born again of water, and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."4 For we find also, in the Acts of the Apostles, that this is maintained by the apostles, and kept in the truth of the saving faith, so that when, in the house of Cornelius the centurion, the Holy Ghost had descended upon the Gentiles who were there, fervent in the warmth of their faith, and believing in the Lord with their whole heart; and when, filled with the Spirit, they blessed God in divers tongues, still none the less the blessed Apostle Peter, mindful of the divine precept and the Gospel, commanded that those same men should be baptized who had already been filled with the Holy Spirit, that nothing might seem to be neglected to the observance by the apostolic instruction in all things of the law of the divine precept and Gospel.

 

[aggie03]

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,that thee God hath made the same Jesus whom ye have crucified, both Lord[master of church] and Christ [resurected and glorified]


Act 2 :37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked[H.S. working] in their heart[mind] and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Acts 2:38 Repents sins and be baptized[Water]

The Work of the HOLY SPIRIT
john 16:7 -11

A brethren, are you posting this is favor of the idea that water baptism for the remission of sins is necessary for our salvation?

 

[Crusader]

WATER BAPTISIM
Hear is what Justin Martyr has to say about baptism;

Chapter LXI.-Christian Baptism.
I will also relate the manner in which we dedicated ourselves to God when we had been made new through Christ; lest, if we omit this, we seem to be unfair in the explanation we are making. As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we praying and fasting with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, "Except ye be born again, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.127 Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers' wombs, is manifest to all. And how those who have sinned and repent shall escape their sins, is declared by Esaias the prophet, as I wrote above;128 he thus speaks: "Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from your souls; learn to do well; judge the fatherless, and plead for the widow: and come and let us reason together, saith the Lord. And though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them white like wool; and though they be as crimson, I will make them white as snow. But if ye refuse and rebel, the sword shall devour you: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it."129
And for this [rite] we have learned from the apostles this reason. Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the laver the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone. For no one can utter the name of the ineffable God; and if any one dare to say that there is a name, he raves with a hopeless madness. And this washing is called illumination, because they who learn these things are illuminated in their understandings. And in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Ghost, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed.


http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01...6.htm#TopOfPage John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world
John 3
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We (john the Baptist and Jesus) speak that we (john the Baptist and Jesus) do know, and testify that we (john the Baptist and Jesus) have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Florida College]

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,that thee God hath made the same Jesus whom ye have crucified, both Lord[master of church] and Christ [resurected and glorified]


Act 2 :37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked[H.S. working] in their heart[mind] and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Acts 2:38 Repents sins and be baptized[Water]

The Work of the HOLY SPIRIT
john 16:7 -11

A Brethren IN CHRIST,

This is something to work with.
Jesus is indeed the Lord (ruler) and Christ (the annointed one - - or the Messiah promised through David).
John 16:7-15 reveals Jesus' discussion with the apostles, focusing on his promise to send the Holy Spirit to them. I agree, the Holy Spirit works through the word. That is how the Jews were cut (or pricked) in their hearts (minds) in Acts 2. But it is also necessary to focus on what the Holy Spirit directed Peter to say in response to their question, "What shall we do?" (Act 2:37) The response was, "Repent and be baptised for the remission of sins" (vs. 38 paraphrased).

Are we in agreement?

FC

 

[Crusader]

 

[Florida College]

WATER BAPTISIM
Hear is what Justin Martyr has to say about baptism;

Chapter LXI.-Christian Baptism.
I will also relate the manner in which we dedicated ourselves to God when we had been made new through Christ; lest, if we omit this, we seem to be unfair in the explanation we are making. As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we praying and fasting with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, "Except ye be born again, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.127 Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers' wombs, is manifest to all. And how those who have sinned and repent shall escape their sins, is declared by Esaias the prophet, as I wrote above;128 he thus speaks: "Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from your souls; learn to do well; judge the fatherless, and plead for the widow: and come and let us reason together, saith the Lord. And though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them white like wool; and though they be as crimson, I will make them white as snow. But if ye refuse and rebel, the sword shall devour you: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it."129
And for this [rite] we have learned from the apostles this reason. Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the laver the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone. For no one can utter the name of the ineffable God; and if any one dare to say that there is a name, he raves with a hopeless madness. And this washing is called illumination, because they who learn these things are illuminated in their understandings. And in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Ghost, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed.


http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01...6.htm#TopOfPage John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world
John 3
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We (john the Baptist and Jesus) speak that we (john the Baptist and Jesus) do know, and testify that we (john the Baptist and Jesus) have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Crusader,

Would you be so kind as to summarize what Justin Martyr is saying about baptism i.e. necessary or not for salvation?

FC

 

[Crusader]

FC I believe baptisim is very much a part of Salvation. It is a born again package that seems pretty clear and straight forward to me. it is the blood, water and spirit that brings salvation to the human soul through jesus christ.

 

[Crusader]

When I got saved, what it meant for me was that , through faith I became aware of god and gods spirit lead me to Jesus Christ. I received Jesus and repented of my sin, bringing my sin into remission (a little like cancer goes into remission). After that I was baptised with water were I left my sin and my old life behind in death and I rose to a new life as a new creation in Christ as a son of god. I then , soon after , received the holy ghost , speaking in other tongues and my life has been renewed to me. I change and grow as a child of the living god were as I grew up an atheist. So, the order of salvation for me was ;
1. I gained a faith in god.
2. was the blood of Christ.
3. was water baptism
4. was the baptism of the spirit.
There is a big difference if you have lived an atheist life. atheist converts know exactly what baptism is all about because they are the born again's. those brought up in Christianity don't seem to have this understanding sometimes because they are yet to realise that god is the "I AM" of there lives.
When we realise that god is "I AM" in our lives then we see the glory of god in our lives.

As you can see from my spelling (that I edited ) my athiest life was an ignorant one

 

[Fat_N_Friendly]

I don't know the specific references but by 2 verses I will say that Babtism is necessary, but not babtism by water. Baptism of the Holy Spirit. John the Baptist said that the one that would come after him would baptize with the holy spirit. and it also says that by the spirit we are baptized into Christ.

 

[Florida College]

When I got saved, what it meant for me was that , through faith I became aware of god and gods spirit lead me to Jesus Christ. I received Jesus and repented of my sin, bringing my sin into remission (a little like cancer goes into remission). After that I was baptised with water were I left my sin and my old life behind in death and I rose to a new life as a new creation in Christ as a son of god. I then , soon after , received the holy ghost , speaking in other tongues and my life has been renewed to me. I change and grow as a child of the living god were as I grew up an atheist. So, the order of salvation for me was ;
1. I gained a faith in god.
2. was the blood of Christ.
3. was water baptism
4. was the baptism of the spirit.
There is a big difference if you have lived an atheist life. atheist converts know exactly what baptism is all about because they are the born again's. those brought up in Christianity don't seem to have this understanding sometimes because they are yet to realise that god is the "I AM" of there lives.
When we realise that god is "I AM" in our lives then we see the glory of god in our lives.

As you can see from my spelling (that I edited ) my athiest life was an ignorant one

Crusader,

Congratulations on overcoming atheism.

One quick question about speaking in tongues after receiving the baptism of the spirit:

When you spoke in tongues, what language was it?

FC

 

[Florida College]

I don't know the specific references but by 2 verses I will say that Babtism is necessary, but not babtism by water. Baptism of the Holy Spirit. John the Baptist said that the one that would come after him would baptize with the holy spirit. and it also says that by the spirit we are baptized into Christ.

Fat & Friendly,

Thank you for your interest in this very important topic.

Have you considered Acts 8:35-39? These scriptures would be a good starting point.
From those scriptures, consider the following questions:
1.) What did Philip preach (vs. 35)?
2.) Fill in the blank: "See, here is _________. What hinders me from being baptized." (vs. 36)
3.) Before Philip baptized the eunuch, what did they go down into? (vs. 38)
4.) After the eunuch was baptized, what did they (Philip & the eunuch) come up out of? (vs. 39)
5.) Is there an evidence in this passage that the eunuch was baptized in the Holy Spirit?
Let us know how you answer these questions.

Matt. 3:1-11 is one of the scripture references you are alluding to. The other passage is 1 Corinthians 12:13. We can discuss these passages after considering Acts 8:35-39.

FC

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Simply posting scriptures will not prove your point...

There are scriptures pro and and con to both sides of the arguement, so you must simply look from both sides, and look for other meanings, if either side is willing to do so, then both sides are blinded by PRIDE and the whole 330 post is in vain.

 

[aggie03]

Florida College didn't just post Scriptures, if that is who you are referring to Archangel. He is attempting to teach through a question and answer memo what the Scriptures plainly teach. Were you indeed referring to Florida College, or is there something that I missed?

I would also argue that there cannot be "pro and con" verses on the issue, but once harmonized and understood in their correct context, that all the Scriptures will agree. The word of God is perfect, within it there are no contradictions.

 

[Clytie]

wowow impressive Aggie....niiiice...u dinna happen to go to Bible college did u? My profs pounded that point into me. O and Arch babe...what bout the verse that says "All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine for reproof for correction for instruction in righteousness." II Tim 3:16

 

[Florida College]

Simply posting scriptures will not prove your point...

There are scriptures pro and and con to both sides of the arguement, so you must simply look from both sides, and look for other meanings, if either side is willing to do so, then both sides are blinded by PRIDE and the whole 330 post is in vain.

xtxArchxAngelxtx,

Post 330 was a simple question inquiring about the language that the "tongue speaker" spoke in. Post 331 focused on Acts 8:35-39 to show that the baptism that was included in "preaching Jesus" was a baptism in water. Why don't you provide some additional insight into what your reasoning is? I'm not exactly sure which post you are referring to, or which scriptures may not have been addressed properly. Please offer more details.

FC

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,that thee God hath made the same Jesus whom ye have crucified, both Lord[master of church] and Christ [resurected and glorified]


Act 2 :37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked[H.S. working] in their heart[mind] and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Acts 2:38 Repents sins and be baptized[Water]

The Work of the HOLY SPIRIT
john 16:7 -11

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly recieved his word were baptzed:

gladly recieved his word goes back to act 2 :36-37 and once again they were baptized after belief

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Florida College didn't just post Scriptures, if that is who you are referring to Archangel. He is attempting to teach through a question and answer memo what the Scriptures plainly teach. Were you indeed referring to Florida College, or is there something that I missed?

I would also argue that there cannot be "pro and con" verses on the issue, but once harmonized and understood in their correct context, that all the Scriptures will agree. The word of God is perfect, within it there are no contradictions.

I agree with you ...... however according to Eph 4:5 there is one baptism and according to 1 cor 12:13 the baptizim is by the Holy Spirit NOT BY WATER ..... why the arguement so easy

also according to Eph 4:5 there is one faith 2 cor 5:7 faith is not by sight yet according to hebrews 11:1 it is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. SEE IT AGREES with its self



by the way aggie03 did you recieve the package

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

I agree with you ...... however according to Eph 4:5 there is one baptism and according to 1 cor 12:13 the baptizim is by the Holy Spirit NOT BY WATER ..... why the arguement so easy

also according to Eph 4:5 there is one faith 2 cor 5:7 faith is not by sight yet according to hebrews 11:1 it is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. SEE IT AGREES with its self


Question HOW DOES AN UNRIGHTEOUS MAN DO SOMETHING RIGHT BY HIS SELF?

Jesus says in John 6:29 this is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom he sent.

add in Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly his faith is counted for righteousness.

but wait did we go a calling or did God Call

Romans 8:29 For whom He did forenow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren 30 Moreover whom he predestinated, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them He also glorified.

Impossible for man to earn salvation

Romans 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh God.

Example of different verses not agreeing but different dispensations so they agree with in the house hold God has not change but is dealing with different groups differently

Matt 6:13 And lead us not unto tempation, but deliver us from the evil one

James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into tempations

WHY TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT THE DISPENSATION OF LAW COULD NOT HAVE CONTROL OF THEM SELVES SINCE THEY WERE NATURAL MAN ALL THE TIME SO THUS THEY PRAYED MATT 6:13 but THE CHURCH SINCE THEY WERE INCLUDED IN THE Gen 22:17 covenant ,were it is called a covenant in luke 1:68-74 , seed is singular there but plural in other passages so we are not included in other covenants and since singular we are included because since we are in Christ and Christ is in Abram ........since we have posses the gate of Christ enemies we have defenses to guard are selfs does this mean we win all the time. no but we have a choice whether to open or keep the gate closed. Do we loose are salvation ...NO why GOD PUT US THERE. Romans 8:29-30...who is Christ enemies that Gen 22:17 talked about THE FLESH, SATAN, AND THE WORLD. In this BATTLE FOR ARE PRESENCE TENSE SALAVATION according to Romans 8:29-30 God will conform us to His Son thru tempations James 1:2-4

and if any one [you now who you are] trys to tell us we have to work for are salvation in James is talking to believers ...and since we can not lose are salvation Romans 8:29-30 and God conforms us then if no works are they saved....BUT EVEN UNBELIEVER HAVE GOOD WORKS ACCORDING TO MATT 7:21-23

SALVATION ACCORDING TO EPH 2:8-9

EPH 2:8 FOR BY BAPTISM ARE YE SAVED THROUGH WORKS ....SORRY SARCASSISM

EPH 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is a gift of God; 9 Not of works, lest any should boast.

So if we have a part in salvation that is .... work and then we could boast

Grace what is that ???? some thing we can not earn or deserve

titus 3:5 can't do any good work for salvation ....

Hebrews 4:3 .....the works were finished from the foundation of the world ....why so we could enter into his rest


by the way aggie03 did you recieve the package

 

[tropper4christ]

The blood of Jesus is the only liquid that can save you . A act by man can not save you. The baptism talk about that is being misunderstood is the baptism by the spirit.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

wowow impressive Aggie....niiiice...u dinna happen to go to Bible college did u? My profs pounded that point into me. O and Arch babe...what bout the verse that says "All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine for reproof for correction for instruction in righteousness." II Tim 3:16

Yes, I am well of that dear

It is profitable for all four of those things, however, what good is it if the reciever of the word is not willing to pay attention to take it in cause his/her pride is in the way?