Is baptism necessary to be saved?

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

thanks brethern... we need to talk sometime.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Brethren,

Yes, I have read it. How does this negate anything that was previously said. Did you notice in vs. 14 that some works will endure and the worker will be rewarded?

FC

Yes I did But there is some here that believe that if one is not obeying they will go to hell ..1

cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? Thus since the Holy Spirit lives in side of us. 1 cor 2:10 with out him we are Romans 3:10-11

God Does everything for are Salvation Romans 8:29-30

 

[Florida College]

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved

[ undeserved and unmerited favor] Read .....Roman 8:29-30

I fail to see how Romans 8:29-30 is relevant to our discussion. I gather from past comments that you believe that God predestined us as individuals. I believe that God predestines according to groups i.e. Christians. Predestination on an individual basis takes away the accountability for those that do not become Christians: their defense would be that God predetermined for them to be that way - - not accept Jesus. Therefore, their condition is God’s fault - - not theirs. I do not accept this reasoning.

through faith ....

faith by hearing verse? you know verse BUT WHERE DOES FAITH COME FROM 3RD PART OF TRINITY Gal 5:22 FRUIT FROM SPIRIT example of this happening is Acts 2:37 heared given faith[pricked in their heart/mind] in this verse believe in vs 41 then after believe got water baptised

The faith by hearing verse is Rom. 10:17. Romans 10:17 harmonizes/agrees with Gal.5:22-23. The Holy Spirit was involved in bringing us the word that leads to these “fruits” in the life of a Christian. I agree that the Jews that were pricked in their hearts (believed) were then baptized in water. But these Jews were also commanded to repent; the command in vs. 38 was to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins.

God does all the work for are salvation

Really? Why did Peter, under the direct influence of the Holy Spirit, give the command to the Jews in Acts 2:38 to repent and be baptized if God does it all?
God’s grace has been extended to all (Titus 2:11). If God does all the work for our salvation, then the logical conclusion is that everyone would be saved. How does this concept agree with other scriptures? According to Matt. 7:13-14, it doesn’t agree at all! The simple truth is that faith itself is a work (John 6:28-29). Faith is a work that we do - - a conviction that we develop based on the evidence God has given us - - his word (Rom. 10:17).

and that not of yourselves: it is a gift of God:

You did not acknowledge the verse in Joshua 6:2. God gave the Israelites the city, but they still had to obey the commands of God in order to receive it (the rest of Joshua chapter 6).

Man cane not do this at all why Romans 3:10-11,23.....do you need more can get them Gen 6:5, gen 8:21........

Romans 3:10-11,23 point out that all have sinned - - both Jews and Gentiles. Jesus alone is without sin (Heb. 4:15), therefore, he alone was the only one worthy to make the “one sacrifice for sins forever” (Heb. 10:12). Hebrews 5:9 says, “He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.” Jesus said, “He who believes and is baptized will be saved” (Mk. 16:16). The primary question of this whole thread is whether or not we have to obey the commands of the Lord. My approach is that we have to in order to please him.


Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy he saved us,..........................

Titus 3:5 is an excellent verse to consider in this discussion. Consider Cornelius in Acts 10:1-2. He truly was involved in works of righteousness. But he lacked something. He lacked the knowledge of salvation through Jesus for all men (Gentiles as well as Jews). After hearing the gospel preached, Cornelius was commanded to be baptized in water (Acts 10:47-48).

Brethren,

I added comments to your previous post.

In conclusion, after considering your points, I still can find no justification in concluding that “faith alone” is sufficient for salvation. Neither can I find any justification as to why we should not obey the commands to repent (Lk. 13:3,5 ; Acts 2:38 ; Acts 17:30), to confess Jesus (Matt. 10:32-33 ; Rom. 10:9 ; Acts 8: 37), and to be baptized (Mk 16:16 ; Acts 2:38 ; Acts 10: 47-48 ; Acts 22:16). My admonition, as a servant of the Lord Jesus, is for all readers to obey the Lord in ALL that he commands.

FC

 

[Florida College]

Context reasons

1. Peter is writing to the church in which they have already have already been saved.

True. Peter is writing to brethren.

2. "baptism now ssaves you" is symbolic for Noah and flood. The flood washed away all wickedness of the world and allowed it to be easier for noah to start all over. If you don't beleive me, read the whole chapter and keep in context. Then if you want to, read commentaries on the bottom (if it has commentaries). Course, they are not as reliable, but nevertheless, they are bible scholars and coincedently, me and the author seem to have the same point of view.

You seem to have missed the obvious part of the verse - - "baptism saves us". How? Just as the 8 souls on the ark were saved by water (the type), baptism (the antitype) now saves us - - from the NKJV. It is easy to see how baptism saves in Mk 16:16 (faith + baptism = salvation) and Acts 2:38 (repentance + baptism = remission of sins).

Now, Jesus freak, what of Romans 10:9??? (prolly about 10th time I have posted this scripture).
It states we shall be saved, but mentions nothing about baptism. There is nothing even hinting about baptism.

True. The passage says nothing about baptism. Granted. The passage lists confession and faith as requirements of salvation. So, what does one's faith prompt one to do when looking at Mk 16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved?" Does faith cause the believer to obey, or not obey? Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to those that obey him (Heb.5:9)? Given the choices of I'm presented with, my faith is on what the Lord says (Rom.10:17).

All baptism passages can be looked at in a different light to make it look like you need baptism to be saved, however, there are others THAT ARE BLUNT that states you shall be saved without baptism.

Your reasoning is not valid. Consider Acts 2:38 (repentance + baptism = remission of sins). The passage does not specifically mention that those Jews needed to belief. But they did. Faith prompted their question to Peter in 2:37. But if your line of reasoning is valid, I could say that faith wasn't necessary. But that would not harmonize with a passage like Rom. 10:9, now would it?

Should you be baptised? Yes. Do you need it to go to heaven? No.

If being saved is a requirement for heaven, then baptism is essential (Mk. 16:16). If the remission of sins is a requirement for heaven, then baptism is essential (Acts 2:38). If having your sins washed away is a requirement for heaven, then baptism is essential (Acts 22:16).

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Remission of sins is not a requirment for salvation though.

Do you even know what remission means????

All you did was counter with veres that can be taken differnetly.

Faith saves you, not obeying after. You are commiting heresy.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Definition of "remission"

1. A lessening of intensity or degree; abatement.

1. <LI type=a>Medicine. Abatement or subsiding of the symptoms of a disease. <LI type=a>The period during which the symptoms of a disease abate or subside.

Baptism makes way for your spiritual walk. You will have an immunity to sin. IT DOES NOT SAVE YOU.
I said this a week ago.

It does not take away your sins, but simply makes a much clearer path for you, and I personally can say that it does.

I had a huge time with girls and dating etc. before and after I was saved. Yes, I knew I was saved, however, for the past 6 months, (after I was saved) it's almost as if I don't even want to date anymore, that and amongst other things.

It lines up perfectly.

 

[Florida College]

keep reading.... verse 10 (NIV.. blah.. my only bible I have handy) For it is with your heart that you beleive and are justified and it is with you mouth that you confess and are saved.

Confess can be referenced as repenting.

Really? I believe I asked this question before - - what bible dictionary or reference source are you using?

11 as scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame

So I am trusting the Lord, YES!!! Yet i never get achance to be baptised... ****!!! LORD I TRUSTED YOU NOW I AM GOING TO HELL!! "right."
11 clearly shows that just simply trusting in Lord will cause you to not be shamed, even trust in salvation.


13 sums it up quite well
13: for, "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord WILL be saved."

Have you noticed how this phrase is used in Acts 22:16? Those who are baptized to wash away their sins are calling on the name of the Lord. How? By doing what he commands (Mk 16:16).

But from the looks of your sig, aggie, it appears that you know Romans 10 somewhat well.

I want to add 1 corinthians 15...
Verse 2 "By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have beleived in vain.

The rest of the chapter goes into paul speaking of that gospel. No baptism.

Consider Paul's lesson to the Athenians in Acts 17:22-32. He specifically tells them that they need to repent. You're right . . . no baptism! But wait . . . he doesn't mention faith either. So, if I follow your line of reasoning correctly - - if baptism isn't necessary, then faith isn't necessary! You know, I don't believe I like that line of reasoning at all.

Infact, baptism is not even mentioned until verse 29. No affiliation with the beginning of the chapter, but if you are willing to discuss, we shall.

I don't believe I see infant baptism in 1 Cor. 15:29. According to Mk 16:16 and Acts 2:38, baptism is for believers and those that need to repent to have their sins forgiven. Sin is not an inherited trait (Ezekial 18:19-20). Babies have no sins to be forgiven, and they cannot meet the requirements of baptism.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

lol you crack me up FC

Look up "believe" in the greek...

Beleive is a standard for faith and amongst other things.


gotta love that pride eh??? I don't blame you for not wanting to believe in something that is contrary to what you have beleived for several years, it sucks, I know.

Peace be with you.

 

[Florida College]

Definition of "remission"

1. A lessening of intensity or degree; abatement.

1. <LI type=a>Medicine. Abatement or subsiding of the symptoms of a disease. <LI type=a>The period during which the symptoms of a disease abate or subside.

Baptism makes way for your spiritual walk. You will have an immunity to sin. IT DOES NOT SAVE YOU.
I said this a week ago.

Where do you get that baptism is an immunity to sin?

It does not take away your sins, but simply makes a much clearer path for you, and I personally can say that it does.

Mk. 16;16, Acts 2:38, & Acts 22;16 say that it does. Let's see, if I remember correctly, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God (Rom. 10:17). Now, who should we believe?

I had a huge time with girls and dating etc. before and after I was saved. Yes, I knew I was saved, however, for the past 6 months, (after I was saved) it's almost as if I don't even want to date anymore, that and amongst other things.

So, are you saying that the gospel made you not like girls anymore? I'm really just trying to get your point. I honestly don't know what you mean.

It lines up perfectly.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

"So, are you saying that the gospel made you not like girls anymore? I'm really just trying to get your point. I honestly don't know what you mean."

No I am saying that baptism caused me to help me control my freaking hormons and emotions.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

"I don't believe I see infant baptism in 1 Cor. 15:29. According to Mk 16:16 and Acts 2:38, baptism is for believers and those that need to repent to have their sins forgiven. Sin is not an inherited trait (Ezekial 18:19-20). Babies have no sins to be forgiven, and they cannot meet the requirements of baptism. "


That just made no sense

 

[Florida College]

lol you crack me up FC

gotta love that pride eh??? I don't blame you for not wanting to believe in something that is contrary to what you have beleived for several years, it sucks, I know.

Peace be with you.

Arch,

You can't deal with the scriptures so you attack instead. That is called a red herring. It is an old trick - - the Pharisees used it against Jesus (Matt. 12:22-30) - - and if I understand things correctly, their charges had no effect on truth.

FC

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Your scriptures do not even prove your point, thats what I was trying to say originally.

I did not "attack" you. Sorry, but I do not "trick" people. I am 18 years old and people think "OOOO a young adult, lets try and manipulate him to think this product is really cool and efficient" or something stupid like that.

I am making simple statements. If i believed in something for so long, my pride would get the best of me and it would be hard for it to break.

Reasoning behind that? Personal experiance. I was baptised at 7 when I supossivly accepted Christ. I never did. Until I heard differnetly when i was 14 and then truly accepted christ did I start pondering baptisim, but realized "****, there are a lot of different opinions about this"
SO i then did an expariment with my salvation.

And from what I have experianced, and read in the scriptures, I have not yet been shamed by trusting in God.

I will not debate this anymore, at least not on this issue with you.

 

[Florida College]

Remission of sins is not a requirment for salvation though.

Do you even know what remission means????

Yes, I posted information from Young's Analytical Concordance. You didn't site your source of information.

All you did was counter with veres that can be taken differnetly.

Faith saves you, not obeying after. You are commiting heresy.

Perhaps you know of a verse that says we are saved by "faith only." Oh, I found it. It's James 2:24. Ooops, sorry. That one says, "That a man is justified by works, and not by faith only." Come to think of it, I don't know of any that says we are saved by "faith only."

 

[Florida College]

Your scriptures do not even prove your point, thats what I was trying to say originally.

This is one point that you need to think long and hard about. None of the scriptures are mine. They were all given by the inspiration of God (2 Tim. 3:16-17).

I did not "attack" you. Sorry, but I do not "trick" people. I am 18 years old and people think "OOOO a young adult, lets try and manipulate him to think this product is really cool and efficient" or something stupid like that.

I am making simple statements. If i believed in something for so long, my pride would get the best of me and it would be hard for it to break.

I do not believe that you are in position to judge my heart. You have only the scriptures to look at and reason with. Your conflict is with them.

Reasoning behind that? Personal experiance. I was baptised at 7 when I supossivly accepted Christ. I never did. Until I heard differnetly when i was 14 and then truly accepted christ did I start pondering baptisim, but realized "****, there are a lot of different opinions about this"
SO i then did an expariment with my salvation.

And from what I have experianced, and read in the scriptures, I have not yet been shamed by trusting in God.

I will not debate this anymore, at least not on this issue with you.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

"For faith comes by hearing, hearing the word of God"

Faith is beleiving, and the Word of God is God... hmmm yeah. Through faith comes beleiving in the heart hmmm can we say romans 10:9??

Yeah we can cirlce about this for HOURS on end, but in the end, your verses does not have the same weight as YOU WILL or YOU SHALL when it speaks of what it takes WITHOUT mentioning baptism.

Don't take my word for it (not that you are anyways, even if I am using testamony and scripture combined), but pray about it man.

P.S. I don't believe one is saved by works, so why even bring up James 2:24??
**shrugs** oh well, pleasent evening FC.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Brethren,

I added comments to your previous post.

In conclusion, after considering your points, I still can find no justification in concluding that “faith alone” is sufficient for salvation. Neither can I find any justification as to why we should not obey the commands to repent (Lk. 13:3,5 ; Acts 2:38 ; Acts 17:30), to confess Jesus (Matt. 10:32-33 ; Rom. 10:9 ; Acts 8: 37), and to be baptized (Mk 16:16 ; Acts 2:38 ; Acts 10: 47-48 ; Acts 22:16). My admonition, as a servant of the Lord Jesus, is for all readers to obey the Lord in ALL that he commands.

FC

FUNNY HOW YOU SAY HARMONIZE
BUT YOU TAKE VERSES OUT OF CONTEXT

ROMANS 1:21 For after that in wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe

guess you are classic

Thank God that He Justifies US according to Romans 8:29-30
and are justifcation is by belief only romans 4:5 , titus 3:5

WHY GOD DOES THE WORK john 6:29

till you realize that if God work on the cross was not good enough for are salvationthere is no hope for any one



I KNOW YOU YOU ARE 1 JOHN 4:3

 

[Florida College]

"For faith comes by hearing, hearing the word of God"

Faith is beleiving, and the Word of God is God... hmmm yeah. Through faith comes beleiving in the heart hmmm can we say romans 10:9??

Yeah we can cirlce about this for HOURS on end, but in the end, your verses does not have the same weight as YOU WILL or YOU SHALL when it speaks of what it takes WITHOUT mentioning baptism.

Don't take my word for it (not that you are anyways, even if I am using testamony and scripture combined), but pray about it man.

P.S. I don't believe one is saved by works, so why even bring up James 2:24??
**shrugs** oh well, pleasent evening FC.

One thought,

Why is it that Romans 10:9 seems so attractive to you, but you have no use at all for James 2:24? Aren't both of these scriptures a part of God's word? The real trick to bible study is accepting both passages, and trying to harmonize how both can be true. Until that avenue is diligently pursued, you will feel like a dog chasing its tail on whatever bible topic you choose to "study."

 

[Florida College]

I already know all about it. I lived it for many years. For some, the church of the NT is the Catholic church...for others it is the UPCI..for others is it baptist.....for others it is Church of Christ.....and so on. Why can't the NT churches be all these churches?

Panther,

For this simple reason - - God is in charge. Jesus promised to build only one church in Matt. 16:18. It is referred to as his body in Eph.1:22-23. According to Eph. 4:5 there is one body (or one church). Like it or not, the only way we can know the New Testament church is to study the New Testament - - the names that it wore, the worship it offered, and the plan of salvation that it taught; all of which must be scriptural.

It is refreshing to look at things strictly from a bible perspective. It begins to make sense rather quickly.

FC

 

[Florida College]

FUNNY HOW YOU SAY HARMONIZE
BUT YOU TAKE VERSES OUT OF CONTEXT

Which verses? Why don't you explain them correctly, then?

ROMANS 1:21 For after that in wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe

guess you are classic

Classic? Is this a biblical concept?

Thank God that He Justifies US according to Romans 8:29-30
and are justifcation is by belief only romans 4:5 , titus 3:5

WHY GOD DOES THE WORK john 6:29

God doesn't do the work in John 6:28-29. Faith is something that we develop. I noticed that you left out vs. 28. It goes with vs. 29.

till you realize that if God work on the cross was not good enough for are salvationthere is no hope for any one

If that's all there is to it, then everyone would be saved - - God's grace has been extended to all (Titus 2:11).



I KNOW YOU YOU ARE 1 JOHN 4:3

Wrong. Jesus came in the flesh. He was resurrected in the flesh. According to Philippians 3:20-21 he is not in the flesh now. He has a glorious body compared to our lowly bodies. Heaven is a spiritual realm. Why would he have a physical body there?

I posted information on your thread about this topic.