Is baptism necessary to be saved?

[evangelist]

I'll answer your question this way. There are some fundamentalists that believe that if you sinned (even on accident) right before you die without praying and asking for forgiveness then you will be doomed. I feel that this is certainly bogus. Christ's blood washes away your sins in retrospect as well as in future as long as you are striving to be a Christian. The same would apply for baptism. If you WANT to be baptised but are somehow stopped from doing such (by instant death, whatever) the grace still covers you because you are STRIVING to do God's bidding. If you are a homosexual and refuse to believe the NT condemns homosexuality but are STRIVING to do God's bidding otherwise, grace does NOT cover you because you are consciously disobeying God's law (at least the part you don't want to do). Baptism is the same thing. If you consciously disobey the baptism part just because you don't feel it's "necessary" for salvation then grace does not cover you. God will judge based on the situation, but I sure wouldn't want to be the person who knew what God commanded in the NT and purposely didn't do it.

The bible does say be watchful for you don`t know the time and day when He is coming back and I think this is a warning to stay in the will of God, and be led by the Spirit so we don`t be caught in the act of sinning when Jesus comes back so we don`t be left behind.

Maybe the question should be ask , are we loving Gopd with all our heart and still sin on purpose, willfully sin and hope not to get caught??

I think that we can get into heaven but we might be stuck at the front gate and can`T even see the throne from the back row, and you have no crown and rewards, and to hear God say not welll done my unfaithful son is so shameful you can´t put how you would feel in words before God or anyone.

Maybe you will be even a shame to be called a christian.

God Bless

 

[phaedrus]

Acts 2:38 for one equates repentance and baptism w/ forgiveness of sins. And yes, I've heard the bazillion Greek arguments about the word translated for and I don't have time to deal w/ those tonight.

Baptism is tied to the ministry of John the Baptist (thus the name), Jesus preached it (Mk 1:15; Lk 13:3), required it of the Apostles when making diciples (Luke 24:47; Matt 28:18-19). It was accepted with faith in the Gospel (Acts 8:12; 18:8). This does not mean that the water effects the forgiveness of sins, actually the water is symbolic of the Holy Spirit:

"If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him. By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive." (John 7:38,39)

There are several verses dealing w/ baptism but I still hold that 1st-3rd Century history seal the argument on this. You can interpret the NT 2 ways, that baptism is required and that fits church history. You can rationalize away baptism but then you have 3 centuries that it's importance just disappears???? That's dubious. Again, history shows that they erred first to baptismal regeneration...the concept that baptism ALONE saves you.

Baptism is used at different times and in different ways, virtually allways as symbolic of something else. The ark was a like figure (IPeter 3:21), Israel's passing through the Red Sea under the cloud is spoken of as a baptism (I Cor 10:2), even the baptism of divine judgment (Matt. 3:11; Luke 3:16). The close association it has with salvation is symbolic, the substance is found in the Gospel and the person and work of the Holy Spirit.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Is baptism necessary?

Man baptism eph 2:9,titus 3:5 or GOD BAPTISM 1 cor 12:13

 

[evangelist]

Is baptism necessary?

No, but it should be done sometime in your Christian life after being born again and saved.


God Bless

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

God Baptism is very necessary 1 cor 12:13

 

[evangelist]

God Baptism is very necessary 1 cor 12:13

what baptism is this a spiritual or water???

1Co:12:1: Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
1Co:12:2: Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
1Co:12:3: Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
1Co:12:4: Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

1Co:12:13: For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Notice the verse say`s spirit not water baptized.


God Bless

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

I know

what's your point

man's[water] bapism get one no where

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

i think we are making this issue harder to understand than what it has to be...

 

[aggie03]

I agree. Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38 and 1 Peter 3:21 do seem, in particular, to be very clear in their meaning.

 

[evangelist]

I know

what's your point

man's[water] bapism get one no where

I wouldn`t agree with you on that because we do get rewards for our faithful obedient walk with Christ, and water baptism is a part of our christian walk.

But to say it is need to be saved is not true.

God Bless

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

I agree. Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38 and 1 Peter 3:21 do seem, in particular, to be very clear in their meaning.

baptism that they are talking about is 1 cor 12:13 for mark 16:16

1 peter 3:21 goes really good with romans 6:1-13 once again no water

acts 2 :38 is a transitional book of old testament believer's that needed to believe different stuff to become a NT believer to have better promises than them according to Hebrews 11:40


matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and even with fire

 

[aggie03]

I wouldn`t agree with you on that because we do get rewards for our faithful obedient walk with Christ, and water baptism is a part of our christian walk.

But to say it is need to be saved is not true.

God Bless

Where is your basis in the Scriptures for saying that it's not necessary?

Also, Evangelist, I did answer your question about baptism in an earlier post. I'll put the meat of it again here so you don't have to sift back through pages of posts to find it :

You had asked whether or not someone who had done everything but been baptized would be saved. My answer was another question:

What about someone who did everything but repent? Both baptism and repentence are laid out as conditions for salvation in the Scriptures. So the answer that (at least the answer I expect) you give to my question will be the same answer for yours.

Hope this helps, and I look forward to our continued discussion

 

[aggie03]

baptism that they are talking about is 1 cor 12:13 for mark 16:16

How do you drink from the spirit? You are trying to interpret half of this verse literally and the other half symbolically, unless you believe that you really do physically drink the Spirit. Is this what you believe?

1 peter 3:21 goes really good with romans 6:1-13 once again no water

On the contrary, I believe that both of these verse do refer to water baptism. The Ethiopian Eunuch in Acts chapter 8 was baptized in water.

acts 2 :38 is a transitional book of old testament believer's that needed to believe different stuff to become a NT believer to have better promises than them according to Hebrews 11:40

I'm going to have to disagree with you again. I would like to know where you find in the Scriptures the idea, stated, that Acts is a transitional book. It's not there, as far as I am able to recall.

Also, not everyone who is converted in the book of Acts is a member of the Old Covenant. There is no evidence whatsoever to imply that the jailer at Philipi was a Jew or a proselyte to Judaism. What about all of the converts from Paganism at the various Greek cities that we can read about? What about those at Corinth?

Rather than being a "transitional book", I believe that Acts is an historical account of early Christianity. I believe it to be the word of God, and no where within the Scriptures do I find anything suggesting that the book of Acts does not apply to those who are, or wish to become, Christians today.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

How do you drink from the spirit? You are trying to interpret half of this verse literally and the other half symbolically, unless you believe that you really do physically drink the Spirit. Is this what you believe?

drink into one spirit = regeneration

titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us by the regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost

one spirit---- romans 8:9.....Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ,
he is none of His.

1 john 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in Him, and He in us, because He hath given us of His Spirit.


1 cor 2:16 For who hath experiencially knownthe mind of the Lord, that he may be joined in Him? But we have the mind of Christ.


acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized by the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning[act 2:1-5] 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost

but ye ....shows different not same

On the contrary, I believe that both of these verse do refer to water baptism. The Ethiopian Eunuch in Acts chapter 8 was baptized in water.

I do not have a problem with water baptism as obedience but it is not required for salvation .....spirit baptism is required for salvation

romans 6:3 Know ye not that so many of us as where baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death.

where is the water in this baptism

Acts 8: 27 come to worship in Jersalm ALREADY OT BELIEVER
Vs 30 Phillip quotes OT scripture
vs 34 answers phillip
vs 35 Phillip preached Jesus?
VS 37 I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. believe is faith thus was already baptized into Christ upon belief then He decided to get baptized with water in vs 38

I'm going to have to disagree with you again. I would like to know where you find in the Scriptures the idea, stated, that Acts is a transitional book. It's not there, as far as I am able to recall.

Also, not everyone who is converted in the book of Acts is a member of the Old Covenant. There is no evidence whatsoever to imply that the jailer at Philipi was a Jew or a proselyte to Judaism. What about all of the converts from Paganism at the various Greek cities that we can read about? What about those at Corinth?

Rather than being a "transitional book", I believe that Acts is an historical account of early Christianity. I believe it to be the word of God, and no where within the Scriptures do I find anything suggesting that the book of Acts does not apply to those who are, or wish to become, Christians today.

you can disagree if you wish ......nothing off my skin

differences in scripture is what helps color the picture for every one not simularitys

 

[Aduro Amnis]

According to Acts 2:38 & 2:39 its required, so ya I'd have to say A BIG FAT NECCESSARY.

 

[aggie03]

A brethren, before we go any further you must understand how important our not agreeing over the purpose of the book of Acts is, and it is something that must be reconciled. If what I have said is correct, then Acts 2:38 applies to all people - and therefore baptism is necessary.

After we get over this, I'll reply to the rest of your post . I missed getting to talk with you so often, glad we have the chance again .

 

[aggie03]

According to Acts 2:38 & 2:39 its required, so ya I'd have to say A BIG FAT NECCESSARY.

I agree with you 100%

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

today when we get water baptized we do it to show people that we are christians.....

the difference we have aggie03 is that God does every thing in salvation

order in acts 2:37 pricked in their hearts =HS working in their minds

vs 38 repent =changing ones mind

be water baptized = act 11:15-16

why .....to recieve the gift of the HS= they had to wait ....we do not

1 example phillippians 4:19 ..paul tells them that God gives all mental needs which are spiritual not physical vs 16

2 example eph 2:4-9, romans 4:2-5, titus 3:5...and many more
vs 40 these people were unsaved

vs 41 they recieved his word =belief

then baptized

vs 45 sold their possessions and goods and devided them among them according to their need

have you done this?

This is part of dicipileship not salvation

other wise i have a need .... ha ha

know go back and respond to my post on act 8

 

[evangelist]

Where is your basis in the Scriptures for saying that it's not necessary?

Also, Evangelist, I did answer your question about baptism in an earlier post. I'll put the meat of it again here so you don't have to sift back through pages of posts to find it :

You had asked whether or not someone who had done everything but been baptized would be saved. My answer was another question:

What about someone who did everything but repent? Both baptism and repentence are laid out as conditions for salvation in the Scriptures. So the answer that (at least the answer I expect) you give to my question will be the same answer for yours.

Hope this helps, and I look forward to our continued discussion

it is not necessary and because it is based on Joh:3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh:3:17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh:3:18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You must understand the contents of what is believe, and in believing is a repentance , confession, and a personal relationship with Jesus christ.

no a person has to repent, and confess with their mouth, and the foundation of being saved is built on repentance , and the blood of Jesus ,and specially believing.

BTW , where in the bible is water outward baptism is an condition for salvation or to be saved???

God Bless

 

[Prode]

where in the bible is water outward baptism is an condition for salvation or to be saved???

God Bless

John 3,5

5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jesus wants a symbolic(water) and spiritual Baptism.

Hi,
Prode