Is baptism necessary to be saved?

[Aaron11]

Thanks for asking Derek,

-Yes, I view the bible as a man written book which is partially revealed by God. Some of the scripture that was in the bible is DEFINETLY revealed by God [Revelation for example(God revealed it in a dream)].

-Sometimeswe can know that parts of texts are DEFINETLY of God. For instance, when Luke quotes Jesus, that is Jesus speaking. Since Jesus was God, His words are God's words.

-I know that Genesis and some of the other early OT books were given to Moses by God (it says so). Those were obviously revealed by God.

-Paul writes in some of his letters, "Now, this is of God". And in other parts of the same letters he writes, "this is of my own accord" (not perfect quotes, but if you don't believe me that it says it, I will get perfect quotes for you). These phrases by Paul indicate to me that some of his writing was revealed to him by God and some of it was out of his own wisdom and knowledge of the gospel. Don't get me wrong, Paul obviously understood the gospel pretty well and even the non-revealed parts of his letters definetly should be given good consideration.

-Some books appear to claim other sources than inspiration and do not claim inspiration at all. For instance, the classic examples are Luke and Acts. Luke wrote those books as a historian wrote them. He sent them as letters to Theopholis to create an orderly account of the things that had happened (Luke 1:1-4). He also said how he got his information. He never said that it was revealed to him. Instead, he said that he collected information from eyewitnesses and from personal investigation. This suggests that Luke and Acts are not revealed to man by God. However, does that mean I should throw them out? Of course not. An accurate compilation of the history of Christ and the apostles is more than a little useful. It just means that I should realize that when I read Luke and Acts, I am reading a historical document that doesn't seem to be revealed by God.

-2 Timothy 3:16. Well, for one we have to realize that Paul is definetly not speaking of the NT scriptures at this point. We know this because Paul refers to the scriptures as the scriptures that Timothy was brought up learning (the OT). Also, we have reason to believe that not all of the OT was revealed by God by miraculous inspiration. Much of it was gathered as history and genealogies that were kept as Jewish record. Many of the Proverbs are not from Israelites, they are Solomon's collection of proverbs that originated from other kings that were of Gentile descent. I think that God-breathed indicates more of a harmony with God's nature. I do not think that it necessarily means that they were revealed miraculously all of the time. And I know that it was talking about the OT, the NT wasn't even written fully by then and it definetly was not collected as the bible. That took a good 400 years to get the canon. If we take 2 Tim 3:16 too literally, without looking at context, we will not know what scriptures Paul is talking about. However, from the context we can easily determine that he was speaking of the OT.

-"I notice that you rely on "logic and philosophy" instead of God's word, so I'm sure this has to be related to your view of the bible."--Western Kentucky

I base my logic and philosophy on what I know about God. I learn this through the inspired and purely historical texts of the bible. I also learn this from practical experience and my dealings with the world God has created. I attempt to base my logic and philosophy on God and a HUGE part of how I know about him is through the bible. I am not discrediting the bible. I am just not wanting to diefy it and make it something that it is not.

An addendum to my post...

- We clearly recognize stylistic differences between the writers of the bible. This shows me that God did not reveal the text to them. AKA not holy words. This doesn't mean that I think that they are not holy thoughts or not accurate thoughts. But, I have trouble seeing how God's style of writing would morph to meet the writer He is using.

 

[aggie03]

I'm not sure that I can agree with you. Have you ever read the Stevens-Beevers debate? Brother Stevens does an excellent job of explaining, using the Scriptures, how we have the Bible and its authority in fully furnishing us for every good work (2 Timothy 3:16).

Aaron11, concerning the necessity for baptism in our salvation - and dealing with what we can know - how would you work around 1 Peter 3:21?

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

I'm not sure that I can agree with you. Have you ever read the Stevens-Beevers debate? Brother Stevens does an excellent job of explaining, using the Scriptures, how we have the Bible and its authority in fully furnishing us for every good work (2 Timothy 3:16).

Aaron11, concerning the necessity for baptism in our salvation - and dealing with what we can know - how would you work around 1 Peter 3:21?

hi aggie03

1 peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism[eph 2:4-6, 1 cor 12:13] doth also now save us ( not putting away of the filth of flesh, but the answer of good conscience toward God,)by the resurrection of Jesus Christ..

What happen after the resurrection that saves us?

What was brand new group created?

who is head of the body?

 

[aggie03]

hi aggie03

1 peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism[eph 2:4-6, 1 cor 12:13] doth also now save us ( not putting away of the filth of flesh, but the answer of good conscience toward God,)by the resurrection of Jesus Christ..

What happen after the resurrection that saves us?

What was brand new group created?

who is head of the body?

Hi A brethren

I think that it's important to note that the word translated as by in the KJV really means through. In 1611, the word by was commonly used to indicate the same thought, which is not so now.

So, when we are baptized it is through the resurrection of Christ that we are saved. Romans 6 does a very good job of explaining this.

What happened after ressurection...well in Acts 2 Peter preached to those who had crucified Christ telling them to repent and baptized...this was after the resurrection.

Those who accept the teachings and commandments of Christ were called Christians, this first happened in Antioch (Acts 11:26).

Christ is the Head of the body, meaning that He is the King of the kingdom, the Ruler of the church.

 

[Aaron11]

I'm not sure that I can agree with you. Have you ever read the Stevens-Beevers debate? Brother Stevens does an excellent job of explaining, using the Scriptures, how we have the Bible and its authority in fully furnishing us for every good work (2 Timothy 3:16).

Aaron11, concerning the necessity for baptism in our salvation - and dealing with what we can know - how would you work around 1 Peter 3:21?

I have not read the Stevens-Beevers debate. Sounds interesting.

Concerning the necessity of baptism in our salvation, I don't feel that I have to work around 1 Pet 3:21, I feel that it works for me. It goes on to say "not the washing away of filth but the answer of a clean concience" (my attempt at quoting it). This goes right along with what I have been saying. When we give our lives to Christ, we give our motives to Christ, our hearts to Him, which will result in action (including baptism). Now, do I think that Peter was saying that the action of baptism now saves us? No, because of the explanation that it is not the physical act, but the manifestation of our faith. Don't get me wrong, I teach baptism. However, I am not ready to say that it pays for our sins and that there is an eternal rule that no one will get into heaven without being baptized.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Hi A brethren

I think that it's important to note that the word translated as by in the KJV really means through. In 1611, the word by was commonly used to indicate the same thought, which is not so now.

So, when we are baptized it is through the resurrection of Christ that we are saved. Romans 6 does a very good job of explaining this.

What happened after ressurection...well in Acts 2 Peter preached to those who had crucified Christ telling them to repent and baptized...this was after the resurrection.

Those who accept the teachings and commandments of Christ were called Christians, this first happened in Antioch (Acts 11:26).

Christ is the Head of the body, meaning that He is the King of the kingdom, the Ruler of the church.

Who puts us into Christ ...the body...

eph 2:4-6
1 cor 12:13

by the way have you sent the package?

 

[evangelist]

A Brethren IN CHRIST
welcome , my brothers.

How is the group, and did you practise today ??

Keep up the good news.

AMEN!

God Bless

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

A Brethren IN CHRIST
welcome , my brothers.

How is the group, and did you practise today ?? iM JUST A CELL OR SOMETHING SMALLER IN CHRIST

Keep up the good news.???????????

AMEN!

God Bless

SARCASTIC OR WHAT?

 

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

I would just like to know what everyone thinks on this subject. Do you have to be baptized before you are saved? If not, where does salvation come?

If you go by the Bible. Baptism is a public profession of faith. It happens after salvation by immersion. It does not happen before.

 

[Florida College]

If you go by the Bible. Baptism is a public profession of faith. It happens after salvation by immersion. It does not happen before.

Wisdom Seeker,

Do you know where the passage of scripture is that says that baptism is a public profession of faith?

And where is the scripture that says that baptism occurs after salvation - - not before?

I am familiar with these passages:
Mark 16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved." (NKJV)
Belief + baptism = salvation

Acts 2:38 "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized . . . for the remission of sins." Repentance + baptism = remission of sins
Notice also vs.41 - "Then those who gladly received his word were baptized."

According to these verses, the logical conclusion would be that baptism is required before one can claim salvation.

FC

 

[Florida College]

FYI,
I obey Christ in my life. I teach and encourage others to. I do not understand why you think that just because I do not think that baptism is what pays for our sins, that I think that we shouldn't do it. Guess what... I am baptized. I tell my friends who are learning about the gospel that they should be baptized. I tell everyone who I get a chance to tell that baptizm is what we need to do to obey our savior. You are not accurate in your portrayal of my life. You say that I am trying to find excuses for people not to obey, this is not accurate.

Aaron,

Once again, let's be analytical here. Notice how many times you used the word "I" in this short text (I bolded them for you to make it easier). Now, notice how many times you told us what God said about baptism (I didn't have to bold anything - - there are no scriptural references). The contrast is not good. Christians are to speak as the oracles of God (1 Pet.4:11a). Faith is based on hearing the word (Rom.10:17).

Rather than draw attention to what God says about baptism (and instrumental music), you have persistently entertained us with your thinking and reasoning, your "think so's", "assumptions," and numerous "guesses."

While it may not be clear to you at the moment, some of us are very observant about what is happening.

FC

 

[Florida College]

There is little doubt in my mind that you would argue. "What I am looking for is your ability to discern the scriptures. Thus far, you have given me nothing to work with. You simply don't use the scriptures. You resort to your own cute quips to "teach(?)." The power is in the word (Rom.1:16) - - not in your guesses at what God will do. "--FC
And the scriptures are not clear on what God will do in every situation, that is why we can only take an educated guess.

"We" are not making educated guesses. "You" are the only one guessing.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Give it a rest, both of you.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

hi aggie03

1 peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism[eph 2:4-6, 1 cor 12:13] doth also now save us ( not putting away of the filth of flesh, but the answer of good conscience toward God,)by the resurrection of Jesus Christ..

What happen after the resurrection that saves us?
clue part of answer is name change of Jesus.....

What was brand new group created that was around before?

who is head of the body?

WHO LIVES INSIDE OF US AND SAYS THAT ARE MATURITY IS HIS PROBLEM?

 

[Aaron11]

Aaron,

Once again, let's be analytical here. Notice how many times you used the word "I" in this short text (I bolded them for you to make it easier). Now, notice how many times you told us what God said about baptism (I didn't have to bold anything - - there are no scriptural references). The contrast is not good. Christians are to speak as the oracles of God (1 Pet.4:11a). Faith is based on hearing the word (Rom.10:17).

Rather than draw attention to what God says about baptism (and instrumental music), you have persistently entertained us with your thinking and reasoning, your "think so's", "assumptions," and numerous "guesses."

While it may not be clear to you at the moment, some of us are very observant about what is happening.

FC

FC,

I would encourage you to refrain from posting until you have read the context in which you are responding to. For one, you have said that I am teaching against baptism, or something like that... In my post I said "FYI", that means for your information. For your information means I am saying it for your information, not for doctorinal proof. This post of mine replied to those (you included) who think I am trying to take the easy way out or trying to undermine God's authority on obedience. I was telling you that I carry out obedience in my own life, even though I know it isn't what pays for my sins.

 

[Aaron11]

Rather than draw attention to what God says about baptism (and instrumental music), you have persistently entertained us with your thinking and reasoning, your "think so's", "assumptions," and numerous "guesses."

While it may not be clear to you at the moment, some of us are very observant about what is happening.

FC

Well observant one,

Because I don't know exactly what God will do with His eternally wise, merciful, just, and loving nature in every possible case, probably means that I am just a measley human. I am sorry for this. Since you obviously have some hidden knowledge that everyone else is blinded to, I am sure you know how God will judge every last soul on that day. Congratulations. I have never met someone with as much theological insight as you. Until I know everything about everything, I will have to stick to my guesses. No, I don't know every last person to be saved, however, I know what is most important. I know that Jesus Christ is my savior and I am His child. It definetly matters to me where others end up, but ultimately that is up to God. You had better go tell everyone who is going to hell that they are going to hell. Oh wait, I bet you have. I am truly thankful for enlightened ones like yourself.

 

[Aaron11]

"We" are not making educated guesses. "You" are the only one guessing.

You're super.

 

[Aaron11]

Flo Col,

Its been real. I'm done.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

fc COME AFTER ME COME ON PICK ON SOME ONE WITH VERSES

 

[Philo]

Go get him A BRETHREN. I BELIEVE IN YOU!