Is baptism necessary to be saved?

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

lol it almost sounds like you want me to argue back...

I am jsut asking for your opinion, not a debate. I would appreciate it if you would stop provoking others (including myself) to do the same... Weilding your sword around like will only get you into trouble.

 

[heb12-2]

lol it almost sounds like you want me to argue back...

I am jsut asking for your opinion, not a debate. I would appreciate it if you would stop provoking others (including myself) to do the same... Weilding your sword around like will only get you into trouble.

I'm sorry if you have been offended, but I thought this thread is in the debate section, is it not?

I don't want you to "argue back", but I am asking for you to "reason" with me "out of the scriptures" (Ac. 17:2). I am asking you to be "noble- minded" like the Bareans and "search the scriptures...whether these things were so" (Ac. 17:11).

As for weilding my sword, what am I supposed to do with it? Is it not meant to "prick" and "pierce" even the most calloused hearts (Ac. 2:37; Heb. 4:12).

It surely pricks mine constantly. I thank the Lord for the soldiers that wielded their swords on me.

Please don't count me as an enemy (Gal. 4:16), but as a friend.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

I'm sorry if you have been offended, but I thought this thread is in the debate section, is it not?

I don't want you to "argue back", but I am asking for you to "reason" with me "out of the scriptures" (Ac. 17:2). I am asking you to be "noble- minded" like the Bareans and "search the scriptures...whether these things were so" (Ac. 17:11).

As for weilding my sword, what am I supposed to do with it? Is it not meant to "prick" and "pierce" even the most calloused hearts (Ac. 2:37; Heb. 4:12).

It surely pricks mine constantly. I thank the Lord for the soldiers that wielded their swords on me.

Please don't count me as an enemy (Gal. 4:16), but as a friend.

Glad we are on the same page.

Just to be honest, I know you have scripture, stating your points, but there is scripture stating mine as well. Romans 10:9,17 being the main verse. There are others, but I used to debate scripture a lot, but it never gets anywhere, so now I just kinda sit back and listen to people, posing questions, not comments, but questions.

 

[heb12-2]

Glad we are on the same page.

Just to be honest, I know you have scripture, stating your points, but there is scripture stating mine as well. Romans 10:9,17 being the main verse. There are others, but I used to debate scripture a lot, but it never gets anywhere, so now I just kinda sit back and listen to people, posing questions, not comments, but questions.

I believe Rom. 10:9, 17, and I also believe all the other scriptures as well. Do you believe Rom. 6:3-6? What do you think it means? "How readest thou?" (Lk. 10:26).

As to reasoning with people, I understand that some people will not be changed, but I don't let that stop me from sowing the seed. I know that some of the seed will fall on different ground (Lk. 8:5-8), but I just keep sowing, praying that an honest heart will receive it. I don't concern myself with the soil, that's God's job. God gives the increase, but I'm just a water boy (1 Cor. 3:6-7).

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine." (2 Ti 4:2).

That is all that I am striving to do.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

If people are unwilling to change, then don't force it upon them, for then you preaching is in vain.

 

[heb12-2]

If people are unwilling to change, then don't force it upon them, for then you preaching is in vain.

I don't believe I have ever "forced it upon" anyone. Do you recall me twisting your arm?

I have simply quoted scripture, made scriptural arguments, and asked for the answers from those who contend against scripture. This has all been done by persuasion, and not force.

Are you saying that YOU are unwilling to change? Then my preaching is vain to you. If so, I pray that your heart will be opened to the scripture.

I realize that you may not want to hear most of this post, so I respond partly for the benefit of others reading it:

Sometimes the word is "in season" and sometimes it is "out of season", but I'm instructed to preach it either way (2 Tim. 4:2). "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." (2 Ti 4:3-4).

Have you come to the point that you can't endure sound doctrine? That is all that I have presented. If you love the truth, then nothing that I have said should offend you, for it has all been backed with scripture.

It is those that do not love the truth that are always pleading at gospel preachers to stop, because they are "grieved that they taught the people" (Ac. 4:2). Some have even hated the truth so much that they "commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus." (Ac. 4:18)

But we who truly have the good news are compelled to say, "We cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard." (Ac 4:20). And they pray this for others who have the truth: "And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word," (Ac 4:29).

"Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men" (2 Co 5:11).

 

[Gentle Panther]

I would just like to know what everyone thinks on this subject. Do you have to be baptized before you are saved? If not, where does salvation come? I already have my mind made up, and will let you know after I read your thoughts. Thanks.

To me, the fact that no one Christian can agree on what the scriptures says about baptism, is proof enough that it does not matter. It would have been made clear. Instead, it's full of passages that leave more questions than answers.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Have you not read any of the posts on this thread that have discussed this issue? You can start by reading a couple posts up (#194), where I asked, "which cross? the cross of the thief or the cross of Christ?"
and deal with the scriptures I presented.

[size=+2]There are 2 arguments that NO ONE has even touched on why the thief is NOT EVEN RELEVANT to the importance of baptism![/size]

The thief has no relevancy to this discussion whatsoever. Here's why, and please deal with these scriptures:

1. If "Repentance and remission of sins" was to be preached "beginning at Jerusalem"(Lk. 24:47), please tell if the thief could have heard that preaching! Was that before or after the thief?

What ....you don't think a man could see the Jesus was a righteous man before he died?...Matt 27:24 ....Pilate saw washes his hands of the blood of innocent who was also a just person

2. Explain whether the great commission (Mt. 28:19-20; Mk. 16:15-16), which included baptism, was given before or after the thief.

Died Matt 27:33-44
commission Matt 28:16-20

question is when did the Apostles Obeyed this commision???

remember they are not gifted yet according to ACTS 1:8
Acts 2 gifted
In H.S. one recieves the ablity to Love Gal 5:22-23 if Spiritual Gal 5:16-17
Acts 8:4 scattered abroad due to persecution ......WHY Heb 12:6-11

Please explain how the thief could have had any part in them at all! Whenever you answer those questions, you will have answered yourself concerning the thief.

Now, rather than just making assumptions, you need to deal with these passages, and either show me how I misunderstand them, or show how the thief could've obeyed them.

The Thief believed What the Jews that believed to be saved that he was God.

He was not part of the Church since Christ was the First Fruitof the Body.

But according to the Law How did he confess his sins to get close to God............... Personally.... mouth to God

Love fulfills the Law

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

I don't believe I have ever "forced it upon" anyone. Do you recall me twisting your arm?

I have simply quoted scripture, made scriptural arguments, and asked for the answers from those who contend against scripture. This has all been done by persuasion, and not force.

Are you saying that YOU are unwilling to change? Then my preaching is vain to you. If so, I pray that your heart will be opened to the scripture.

I realize that you may not want to hear most of this post, so I respond partly for the benefit of others reading it:

Sometimes the word is "in season" and sometimes it is "out of season", but I'm instructed to preach it either way (2 Tim. 4:2). "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." (2 Ti 4:3-4).

Have you come to the point that you can't endure sound doctrine? That is all that I have presented. If you love the truth, then nothing that I have said should offend you, for it has all been backed with scripture.

It is those that do not love the truth that are always pleading at gospel preachers to stop, because they are "grieved that they taught the people" (Ac. 4:2). Some have even hated the truth so much that they "commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus." (Ac. 4:18)

But we who truly have the good news are compelled to say, "We cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard." (Ac 4:20). And they pray this for others who have the truth: "And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word," (Ac 4:29).

"Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men" (2 Co 5:11).

My heart is open to what God has revealed to me through scripture. I know your scriptures, this so called debate and all the scriptures that you have presented are not new to me. All the scriptures can be read more than one way, and I simply disagree with the context in which you are using it in.

"Have you come to the point that you can't endure sound doctrine? That is all that I have presented."

Sorry but yeah, I endure sound doctrine. Please don't judge me just b/c I disagree with you... who are you to know that you thoughts are right? Millions of people beleive my points of veiw on baptism, as well as do people beleive in your opinions. Don't be so eager to say who is right and who is wrong.

If you were to be presenting your information in a more patient, loving, and open minded manor, then I would listen a lot more than what I am now, but since you conduct does NOT add up to how the word of God says to (in my own opinion) why on earth would I listen what you have to say??

Its not what you say, it's how you say it. Even if you are right, your actions can simply destroy all you have to offer.

 

[aggie03]

To me, the fact that no one Christian can agree on what the scriptures says about baptism, is proof enough that it does not matter. It would have been made clear. Instead, it's full of passages that leave more questions than answers.

I agree with Heb 12-2. I also think that he presents what he believes very well, not with sophisticated arguments, but he preaches Christ crucified and salvation through Him, the way that God has planned it.

Just because there is a dispute about something doesn't mean that the Bible doesn't speak authoritativley on the subject. Don't you think that Satan would want to cause confusion and through persuasive arguments that leave Biblical basis lead people away from the truth? If anything, the fact that there is disagreement would spur me onward to greater study and understanding - not dismissing the topic right off. After all, that is what the devil would want. I'm not trying to insult you, please don't take it that way - I'm just trying to get you to think about how the Devil is still working against us to this very day. He doesn't want you to become a child of God, and will do anything in his power to assure that you won't. Please, study the scriptures, the sum of God's word, and let the gospel be the power unto your salvation (Romans 1:16)!

 

[aggie03]

My heart is open to what God has revealed to me through scripture. I know your scriptures, this so called debate and all the scriptures that you have presented are not new to me. All the scriptures can be read more than one way, and I simply disagree with the context in which you are using it in.

"Have you come to the point that you can't endure sound doctrine? That is all that I have presented."

Sorry but yeah, I endure sound doctrine. Please don't judge me just b/c I disagree with you... who are you to know that you thoughts are right? Millions of people beleive my points of veiw on baptism, as well as do people beleive in your opinions. Don't be so eager to say who is right and who is wrong.

If you were to be presenting your information in a more patient, loving, and open minded manor, then I would listen a lot more than what I am now, but since you conduct does NOT add up to how the word of God says to (in my own opinion) why on earth would I listen what you have to say??

Its not what you say, it's how you say it. Even if you are right, your actions can simply destroy all you have to offer.

arch, you have to remember that we're using text alone here, and you can't hear heb 12-2's voice. I'm positive that when he writes, if he were speaking it would be in a gentle, sincere and concerned tone. He genuinely cares about your salvation and the salvation of others, otherwise he would not be on here trying to share the truth.

I would also warn you against playing the numbers game. Just because a large group of people believe that something is right, does not mean that it is so. There are a very large number of Jehovah's Witnesses throughout the world - and they deny the deity of Christ! Are you going to give them credence just because they have numbers? I know that you would not.

I also do not believe that there is more than one way to view the Scriptures. There can be only one way - and narrow is that way and few are they who will find it (Matthew 7:14).

I've also noted that you said you like questions , so I've got one for you. Would you mind discussing 1 Peter 3:21 with me? What do you think that it means?

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

My salvation is well in hand, and by God let me assure you.

I was baptised 2 1/2 years after I was saved (accepted christ into my heart). That was 6 months ago, and there was no real change. I got wet.

My bible is outside, but I am well aware of what 1 peter 3:21 says...

"baptism now saves you"

Check who it was writen by, and to who, and check the time in which it was written, and who they were discussing.

I am not going impose my beliefs on you. If you were really curious about my way of thinking, you would look it up yourself. You know where I stand, and I do not beleive anything without reason.


My words and thoughts will not change your mind... my bible is not on me, it is late, but if you shall look then do so, for if you do, you are opening your mind, and not needing me to do so. If I simply tell you, the affect will not be genuine.

Good night.

 

[aggie03]

My salvation is well in hand, and by God let me assure you.

I was baptised 2 1/2 years after I was saved (accepted christ into my heart). That was 6 months ago, and there was no real change. I got wet.

My bible is outside, but I am well aware of what 1 peter 3:21 says...

"baptism now saves you"

Check who it was writen by, and to who, and check the time in which it was written, and who they were discussing.

It's written by the Apostle Peter to those who were Christians discussion how their baptism saves them? I don't understand what point your trying to make. I really am trying - you're just going to have to explain to me what you mean.

I am not going impose my beliefs on you. If you were really curious about my way of thinking, you would look it up yourself. You know where I stand, and I do not beleive anything without reason.

I didn't ask you to impose your beliefs on me, I just wanted to know what you thought that passage meant. I did look the passage up by the way , but I still don't know what you believe or why...

My words and thoughts will not change your mind... my bible is not on me, it is late, but if you shall look then do so, for if you do, you are opening your mind, and not needing me to do so. If I simply tell you, the affect will not be genuine.

Good night.

I did look - again, there's obviously something that you're seeing here that I'm not, so I would really appreciate it if you would explain it to me .

 

[twhite982]

To me, the fact that no one Christian can agree on what the scriptures says about baptism, is proof enough that it does not matter. It would have been made clear. Instead, it's full of passages that leave more questions than answers.

It doesn't matter????

To me the fact that no one can agree on it is that its of utmost importance and needs to be understand.

The devil would want to confuse all on core Christian doctrine.

Look at the basics.

God - many different views
Christ - "
Holy Spirit - "
Faith - "
Baptism - "
Resurrection - "

These are a few of the central Christian themes.

Where is the most confusion at?
I would say on the above points.

TW

 

[heb12-2]

To me, the fact that no one Christian can agree on what the scriptures says about baptism, is proof enough that it does not matter. It would have been made clear. Instead, it's full of passages that leave more questions than answers.

I'm sorry but this reasonig makes absolutely no sense at all. You're saying that because people disagree on a subject makes that subject unimportant? This is totally false logic.

If you think this reasoning is sensible, then try it on some of the things you believe ARE important. It would go like this:

"To me, the fact that no one Christian can agree on what the scriptures says about SALVATION, is proof enough that SALVATION does not matter."

[size=+2]Now how much sense would that make?[/size]

By your own reasoning, you've not only ruled out baptism, you've ruled out salvation altogether.

Just try your logic on the book of Revelation. People don't agree on it, so would you say the book of Revelation doesn't matter? Absurd. Would you say the book of Revelation is "full of passages that leave more questions than answers"? So does that mean then that it "doesn't matter?"

In fact, did you know that people don't agree on the BIBLE, period? Would you say the Bible doesn't matter? Would you say that sense the whole Bible is "full of passages that leave more questions than answers", that the Bible "doesn't matter?" Ludicrous

Listen, just because people disagree on a subject, that doesn't mean that the subject doesn't matter. It simply means that someone has got to be mistaken. You don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

If you say 2+2=4, but someone else says it equals 5, can you both be right? No. Either one of you are wrong or both of you are wrong, but you both can't be right. And simply because you disagree doesn't mean that it "doesn't matter".

Can you imagine the kid in math class saying this? "Hey teacher, since you and me don't agree on the answers to these problems, can you give me an 'A' anyway, seeing how it doesn't matter?"

Besides all this, where is the scripture that says that everyone has to agree on a subject before it matters?

What if Noah had your logic? Would he say that since only 8 of us believe it's going to rain, it must not matter?

The number of people who believe a certain thing has nothing to do with the truth. The truth is still the truth, whether it is "in season" (popular) or "out of season" (unpoplar) - 2 Tim. 4:2

Are you willing to take back your statement?

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

It's written by the Apostle Peter to those who were Christians discussion how their baptism saves them? I don't understand what point your trying to make. I really am trying - you're just going to have to explain to me what you mean.



I didn't ask you to impose your beliefs on me, I just wanted to know what you thought that passage meant. I did look the passage up by the way , but I still don't know what you believe or why...



I did look - again, there's obviously something that you're seeing here that I'm not, so I would really appreciate it if you would explain it to me .

It's good to see some gentleness around these parts
I believe that paul was refering

Once baptised, we are dedicating our lives to the trials that Jesus Christ endured.
"take up your cross and follow me" Matt 16:24
Romans 6:3,4

When Jesus died on the cross, he faced satan and I beleive he actually went into hell and also abrahams bosom and freed the Old Testament saints- this was a major trial.

If we are not baptised, and try to do Gods will, we will fall almsot every time, if not every time.
The church that peter is talking to already knows that it is not baptisim that saves you, but the faith, beliefe, and repentence alone. Then, if you decided to do the work of God, as Jesus did (Note that Jesus didn't get baptised until He started His ministry) then you need to be baptised.

We all have gifts, God given gifts that the Holy Spirit gives us that are used for evangelism, the WORK God has told us to do.

If we are baptised, God will save us when trials come when doing "the work. 1 peter chapter 3 is telling us how to live, especially once you have started ministering. However, it also discusses Noahs ark and the flood. The flood is symbolic to baptisim, and that is what peter is refering to- the flood (baptisim) saved noah and his family b/c all wickedness was washed away, and they began to do Gods work.

In a context of a true baptisim, we stating to tohers that we have ALREADY accepted Christ into our hearts and are saved. We are now making the proclomation that we are willing to take it step further and to glorify God by doing His work. Those watching will then know then and there that they have a new brother or sister in Christ ready to go out and make disciples, and they will know to hold you accountable.

Our whole purpose as a christian is reproduce reproducers in Christ, aka disciples, just as Jesus Christ did. God has commanded us to be baptised. It's an act of obedience, and if you are unwilling to do just that, then whos to say that you won't do what God wants you to do when it comes to ministry???

Thats where I stand.

 

[heb12-2]

What ....you don't think a man could see the Jesus was a righteous man before he died?...Matt 27:24 ....Pilate saw washes his hands of the blood of innocent who was also a just person

You missed my point with Luke 24:47. Take a look at it and tell me what you believe was to "begin" at Jerusalem, and tell me when that was.

Died Matt 27:33-44
commission Matt 28:16-20

question is when did the Apostles Obeyed this commision???

Good question. The apostle Paul's is found in Ac. 22:16. As to the other Apostles, it is not specifically mentioned, but we can know that they did because Peter said, "baptism doth also now save US" (1 Pet. 3:21).

Do you honestly believe Peter commanded something he wasn't willing to do himself? (Ac. 2:38; 10:48)

The Thief believed What the Jews that believed to be saved that he was God.

He was not part of the Church since Christ was the First Fruitof the Body.

Thank you! You just made the point that I've been making concerning the theif. You said it yourself, "He was not part of the Church".
Since baptism is into the church (1 Cor. 12:13; Ac. 2:41, 47), the importance of baptism has nothing to do with the theif.

So can you admit that the thief has no bearing on this discussion?

Love fulfills the Law

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (Jn. 14:15)

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

More love and less zeal, heb 12:2, please, for all of us.

 

[aggie03]

It's good to see some gentleness around these parts
I believe that paul was refering

Do you mean that you think Paul wrote 1 Peter? I'm sure that's not what you meant, so I'm a little lost, or is this even part of your reply to me?

Once baptised, we are dedicating our lives to the trials that Jesus Christ endured.
"take up your cross and follow me" Matt 16:24
Romans 6:3,4

By this do you mean that you believe that baptism is nothing more than dedicating our lives to Christ, or that after you are baptized for the remission of sins, that is something you should do?

When Jesus died on the cross, he faced satan and I beleive he actually went into hell and also abrahams bosom and freed the Old Testament saints- this was a major trial.

I've looked and tried to find some Scripture that talks about Christ descending into hell. I can't find it anywhere. What you have posted sounds very familiar to some parts of the Apostles's Creed. Apart from that creed, can you find any Biblical referrence of Christ descending into hell?

If we are not baptised, and try to do Gods will, we will fall almsot every time, if not every time.

If we do not do the will of God, then I would say there is no other possibility than miserable failure, and an eternity somewhere no one should want to be .

The church that peter is talking to already knows that it is not baptisim that saves you, but the faith, beliefe, and repentence alone. Then, if you decided to do the work of God, as Jesus did (Note that Jesus didn't get baptised until He started His ministry) then you need to be baptised.

What you have posted here doesn't make sense to me. How can you know that the people Peter has addressed this letter didn't believe that baptism was necessary? Let's say for just a moment that you are right, that this is what they believed - then it seems to me that Peter was correcting this erroneous belief for Peter actually says that baptism saves. I would really like to hear a more detailed explanation for why you believe this, if you don't mind .

We all have gifts, God given gifts that the Holy Spirit gives us that are used for evangelism, the WORK God has told us to do.

I don't believe that there any longer present gifts of the Spirit as we can find documented throughout the New Testament. I believe that 1 Corinthians 12-13 makes a very decisive case that once the complete revelation is available that the gifts will cease to exist and all that we will be left with is the three most important things of all: faith, hope and love.

If we are baptised, God will save us when trials come when doing "the work. 1 peter chapter 3 is telling us how to live, especially once you have started ministering. However, it also discusses Noahs ark and the flood. The flood is symbolic to baptisim, and that is what peter is refering to- the flood (baptisim) saved noah and his family b/c all wickedness was washed away, and they began to do Gods work.

This is a brief comment on why I believe the flood is referenced: The flood, through which Noah was saved, is an antitype to baptism. Noah was saved through the water by the working of God while the rest of the world passed away. When we are baptized, we are also saved by the working of God, but the rest of the world does not pass away. Instead of the world being destroyed, it our old sinful man who is put to death as we are baptized into the death of Christ (Romans 6:3). As we are raised with Christ through faith in the working of God (Colossians 2:12) we are raised to walk in a newness of life no longer a slave to sin but a slave to rightousness (Romans 6:18).

How do you feel about that view? If you don't mind would you please answer referrencing the Scriptures.

In a context of a true baptisim, we stating to tohers that we have ALREADY accepted Christ into our hearts and are saved. We are now making the proclomation that we are willing to take it step further and to glorify God by doing His work. Those watching will then know then and there that they have a new brother or sister in Christ ready to go out and make disciples, and they will know to hold you accountable.

Would please find a Scripture reference and post it along with this explanation? I have been looking for quite some time, but I have yet been able to find a verse in the Bible where it says that baptism is nothing more than an outward sign of an inward change.

Our whole purpose as a christian is reproduce reproducers in Christ, aka disciples, just as Jesus Christ did. God has commanded us to be baptised. It's an act of obedience, and if you are unwilling to do just that, then whos to say that you won't do what God wants you to do when it comes to ministry???

I would say that our purpose as a Christian is to love, praise and worship God. Part of that love, praise and worship is being obedient to God. Part of that being obedient is sharing the Truth with others. I don't believe that preaching is the primary aspect of one being a Christian, but I do believe it is something we are commanded to do .

Thats where I stand.

Thank you very much for your reply . It has really helped me to understand more of what you believe and why. In a like manner, I have tried to post some information with what I believe the Bible teaches. I hope to hear from you again soon, and that through discussing what the Bible teaches, we might come to a more perfect knowledge of the Truth !

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

sorry I ment peter...

"By this do you mean that you believe that baptism is nothing more than dedicating our lives to Christ, or that after you are baptized for the remission of sins, that is something you should do?"

It's a dedication to christ, and yes we should, but it won't cause you to go to hell. God tells us to make disciples, however thats where free will is factored in.


"I've looked and tried to find some Scripture that talks about Christ descending into hell. I can't find it anywhere. What you have posted sounds very familiar to some parts of the Apostles's Creed. Apart from that creed, can you find any Biblical referrence of Christ descending into hell?"
well no christians will descend to hell, only Jesus. Jesus going into hell is metaphorical for spiritual warfare that we chirstians will be confronted with once we start ministering, and making disciples.

"If we do not do the will of God, then I would say there is no other possibility than miserable failure, and an eternity somewhere no one should want to be "
Gods will is for us to make discoples, if we are not baptized, then it will be impossible to do so.

"What you have posted here doesn't make sense to me. How can you know that the people Peter has addressed this letter didn't believe that baptism was necessary? Let's say for just a moment that you are right, that this is what they believed - then it seems to me that Peter was correcting this erroneous belief for Peter actually says that baptism saves. I would really like to hear a more detailed explanation for why you believe this, if you don't mind ."

It saves them from their spiritual warfae, not from damnation.

"I don't believe that there any longer present gifts of the Spirit as we can find documented throughout the New Testament. I believe that 1 Corinthians 12-13 makes a very decisive case that once the complete revelation is available that the gifts will cease to exist and all that we will be left with is the three most important things of all: faith, hope and love."

I disagree, I beleive gifts are still prevelant. Discernment, pastor teacher, mercy, etc. are just a few to name. I beleive that
prophecy and tongues was done away with, just as it says.

"This is a brief comment on why I believe the flood is referenced: The flood, through which Noah was saved, is an antitype to baptism. Noah was saved through the water by the working of God while the rest of the world passed away. When we are baptized, we are also saved by the working of God, but the rest of the world does not pass away. Instead of the world being destroyed, it our old sinful man who is put to death as we are baptized into the death of Christ (Romans 6:3). As we are raised with Christ through faith in the working of God (Colossians 2:12) we are raised to walk in a newness of life no longer a slave to sin but a slave to rightousness (Romans 6:18).

How do you feel about that view? If you don't mind would you please answer referrencing the Scriptures."

Romans 6:3 I have already discussed: His death was His spiritual warfare, and thus the same for us though it might not only take us to death, we will always know that God will rescue us. Nothing about salvation.

Colosons 2:12 still nothing about baptism. Infact, "raised up with Him through FAITH in the WORKING of God, raised Him from the dead"
If you are not working, you are dead to Christ, but there is difference between being dead, and non existant to Christ aka unknown to Christ. A dead man cannot work, just like a dead soul cannot work. Again, this is ment for those who are already saved.

Romans 6:18 Righteousness is doing Gods work, uselessness is evil in the eyes of God, working for God is righteous. Nothing about salvation, but growin in salvation, as all your other 2 verse have been about.
"Would please find a Scripture reference and post it along with this explanation? I have been looking for quite some time, but I have yet been able to find a verse in the Bible where it says that baptism is nothing more than an outward sign of an inward change."
The word rapture is never found in the bible either, but yet it will happen. The rapture is implied through scripture.
As far as accountability, it's not mentioned in the bible, but it does happen, at least thats why my church friends did when I was baptised.

It is an outward sign of inward change. We are told to be baptised to show that we are ready to minister, just as Jesus did. By saying you ware ready to minister and willing, it shows inward change.

"I would say that our purpose as a Christian is to love, praise and worship God. Part of that love, praise and worship is being obedient to God. Part of that being obedient is sharing the Truth with others. I don't believe that preaching is the primary aspect of one being a Christian, but I do believe it is something we are commanded to do ."

I personally would like to know where the verse where it says we are here to glorify God. Yes we are to glorify God, but that is not our ultimate purpose. God wants us to work. Jesus amnifested the word of God and had 11 disciples start churches in which they were called to go out and make disciples.
Matt 28:19 "Go out and make discples" it even states to baptize for the smiple fact that He wants workers, not lazy people, but Jesus came to save all, whether they will do the work or not.

"Thank you very much for your reply . It has really helped me to understand more of what you believe and why. In a like manner, I have tried to post some information with what I believe the Bible teaches. I hope to hear from you again soon, and that through discussing what the Bible teaches, we might come to a more perfect knowledge of the Truth !"

Lets hope and pray that happens.

Thank you for your questions, and being calm and patient with my views, as we all should.

Godbless.