Is baptism necessary to be saved? (2)

[YAQUBOS]

Do you know what the word "clearly" means? You are a most confusing Jacob.

You play with words and seem to little understand their meaning or use. For example, you talk about being saved for something, when salvation is most often used to mean FROM something.

Yes, I know what "clearly" means.

No, I never talked about being saved for something. But as you asked what baptism is essential FOR, then I asked you what you think Salvation is essential FOR. You think that everything necessary or essential must be essential FOR something. Well, then tell me what Salvation is essential for.

Thank you in advance.

YAQUBOS†

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

None of us is right. The Word of God is right. Your problem is that you are trying to see whose interpretation of the Bible is the right one. But I have been telling you all the time that ONLY God's interpretation is right.

The shells keep moving around but the game remains the same. Yet again you fail to see the core epistemological problem. God's Word, God's Message, God's Interpretation, God's Pink Gucci Handbag, who cares? Either way, we're dealing with an Important Thing of God. Since God is perfect and we are not, how can we know that we have determined the IToG correctly? If God is logical then we can at least rule out any illogical claim about the IToG. If God is not deceitful then we can at least rule out any claims about the IToG that contradict our knowledge or experience of the world. And so on. The one thing we can't helpfully do is resort to another IToG (like, say, the Bible) because that is begging the question, just substituting one IToG for another.

So when you make some claim, I try to analyze it in terms of logic, reason, experience, etc. But when backed into a corner, you spout the usual defense of "God's wisdom is foolishness", taking logic out of the game altogether, leaving... ? Nothing. Nothing but self confirmation.

So the only difference between someone who understands the Word of God and someone who doesn't is LIVING FAITH.

OK, so we both claim to have living faith (with some degree of capitalization). Now what? We both understand the Word of God, apparently, but come to different conclusions. Look at that! We're back where we started. How do we determine who has "living faith"? Around and around and around we go, with No True Scotsman fallacies flying off in all directions!

You either believe what God is saying or you don't. There is not a third option.

Red herring. Belief is not the question.

It's only those who do not believe the Word of God who invent difficulties concerning the meaning of God's Word. God is clear, but the sinner doesn't WANT to believe.

If "God" is so clear, why do believers come to different opinions? Ooh, ooh, I know I know... the ones who don't get the message right are Not True Christians, amIright amIright? So I wonder how we determine who are the True Christians? Would it be the ones who get the message right? Or would that, perhaps, be just a wee bit circular?

Let's face it, in the end all you are saying is "I have the message right, because I'm a True Christian; and I'm a True Christian because I have the message right. Everyone else is wrong because they don't agree with me".

It is incredible that God can justify and save the ungodly. But with God all things are possible, and the believer BELIEVES this, because GOD said it, and not a mortal.

That's lovely. And completely irrelevant to anything in this discussion. But thanks for sharing anyway.

Coming back to our topic, Jesus and His Apostles clearly taught us about the importance of baptism. It is your problem if you don't BELIEVE it just because it looks illogical for your fallible human mind.

Except that I've seen decent scriptural arguments against the necessity (or whatever neologism you're currently using) of baptism. So much for "clearly". And my problem with logic is not baptism per se, it's your arguments regarding it. So you still can't separate yourself from theology. Interesting.

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

Sounds like he is saying that he knows Gods interpretation meaning that he is right even though he said none of us is right. I don't know how you manage to keep chasing him in circles without getting dizzy

QFT. (I have good drugs for dealing with the dizzy, so I'm good )

Since you can not tell me what God is saying and I can not tell me what God is saying... what is God saying?

Also QFT.

 

[YAQUBOS]

The shells keep moving around but the game remains the same. Yet again you fail to see the core epistemological problem. God's Word, God's Message, God's Interpretation, God's Pink Gucci Handbag, who cares? Either way, we're dealing with an Important Thing of God. Since God is perfect and we are not, how can we know that we have determined the IToG correctly? If God is logical then we can at least rule out any illogical claim about the IToG. If God is not deceitful then we can at least rule out any claims about the IToG that contradict our knowledge or experience of the world. And so on. The one thing we can't helpfully do is resort to another IToG (like, say, the Bible) because that is begging the question, just substituting one IToG for another.

God speaks. You either BELIEVE what He says, or you don't. It's not up to you to decide what He must say or not say. You can't decide what the Word of God must be, because you don't know what God will say until He says it. When He says, you need to believe what He says, and not to oppose it or measure it with your human fallible measures.

So when you make some claim, I try to analyze it in terms of logic, reason, experience, etc. But when backed into a corner, you spout the usual defense of "God's wisdom is foolishness", taking logic out of the game altogether, leaving... ? Nothing. Nothing but self confirmation.

Your human logic is fallible. Why don't you follow GOD's logic that is expressed in His Word, the Bible?

OK, so we both claim to have living faith (with some degree of capitalization). Now what? We both understand the Word of God, apparently, but come to different conclusions. Look at that! We're back where we started. How do we determine who has "living faith"? Around and around and around we go, with No True Scotsman fallacies flying off in all directions!

But what need do we have to know who has the right conclusion! I am telling you this all the time. Only God knows the hearts. If you have living Faith, then that's enough. Your problem is that you claim to have living faith, and yet you don't show it. You are still discussing the basis of living faith, i.e. the Word of God.

Red herring. Belief is not the question.

And I didn't talk about belief. I talked about living faith.

If "God" is so clear, why do believers come to different opinions?

And who said that true believers come to different truths?

Ooh, ooh, I know I know... the ones who don't get the message right are Not True Christians, amIright amIright? So I wonder how we determine who are the True Christians? Would it be the ones who get the message right? Or would that, perhaps, be just a wee bit circular?

Only God knows the hearts. And true believers believe what God says.

Let's face it, in the end all you are saying is "I have the message right, because I'm a True Christian; and I'm a True Christian because I have the message right. Everyone else is wrong because they don't agree with me".

I am not right, because God is right. And I hope one day you will understand this simple truth and you will be humbled before God Almighty.

Except that I've seen decent scriptural arguments against the necessity (or whatever neologism you're currently using) of baptism. So much for "clearly". And my problem with logic is not baptism per se, it's your arguments regarding it. So you still can't separate yourself from theology. Interesting.

OK. Now I will give you a verse about the fact that baptism is essential in Salvation. The challenge is to find a similar verse that says that baptism is not so essential:

"Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" ( 1 Peter 3:21 )

I am waiting for a verse that says, as much clearly as this verse, that baptism does NOT save you now.

Let's see now if baptism is necessary in Salvation or not...

May the Lord bless you richly and lead you to His truth.

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

YAQUBOS;46995499God speaks. You either BELIEVE what He says, or you don't. It's not up to you to decide what He must say or not say. You can't decide what the Word of God must be, because you don't know what God will say until He says it. When He says, you need to believe what He says, and not to oppose it or measure it with your human fallible measures.

Didn't you earlier admit that the bible is not The Bible? That the book we have on our shelves is NOT the Word of God but only a human manifestation of God's Word and that it doesn't matter what translation, or what version with what errors we have, God's Word is still there and will speak to us through the Holy Spirit?

OK. You get one meaning from it. I get another. Soul Searcher gets another meaning. Jimmy Swaggart and James Jones and David Koresh and Ted Haggee and John Haggee and Benny Hinn and Billy Graham and James Bakker and Pat Robertson and Pope Benedict 16th, and George W Bush all get different messages from the Bible and The Holy Spirit speaking through it.... so is everyone right? HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE?

Your human logic is fallible. Why don't you follow GOD's logic that is expressed in His Word, the Bible?

Which Bible? The Bible or the bible? What the Holy Spirit tells you or me?

But what need do we have to know who has the right conclusion! I am telling you this all the time. Only God knows the hearts. If you have living Faith, then that's enough. Your problem is that you claim to have living faith, and yet you don't show it. You are still discussing the basis of living faith, i.e. the Word of God.

It doesn't matter what you believe as long as you really really believe it and follow it... is that it? If you hear the Holy Spirit tell you to jump, don't ask how high, just jump?

And I didn't talk about belief. I talked about living faith.

Yeah... faith based on what you believe? How can one be different from the other?

And who said that true believers come to different truths?

"true" believers and "truth"... get the connection?

Only God knows the hearts. And true believers believe what God says.

Here we are again... does God tell you one thing and me another? Does he tell you to believe and follow every single word in the bible because they are The Bible, and tell me to realize that it is a record of Jewish History written by Jews as they longed for deliverance from exile and re-establishment as a nation?

I am not right, because God is right. And I hope one day you will understand this simple truth and you will be humbled before God Almighty.

God is right about what? (Don't say "everything".) Are you contending that everything in the bible, which you believe is The Bible, The Word of God, is God being right?

OK. Now I will give you a verse about the fact that baptism is essential in Salvation. The challenge is to find a similar verse that says that baptism is not so essential:

"Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" ( 1 Peter 3:21 )

I am waiting for a verse that says, as much clearly as this verse, that baptism does NOT save you now.

I am glad you picked a book NOT written by its purported author and only got into the Canon by a compromise.
This verse is so obviously NOT from God... how can you not see it?
Baptism saves you; this clearly means that baptism is NECESSARY or at the very least substitutionary for God's grace.

Let's see now if baptism is necessary in Salvation or not...

NO! It is not. It is a reference to the tale of Noah and the great global flood that killed all but 8 souls (psuche). What did the waters of the flood do? It destroyed, it didn't save. The ark saved. The ark... like the Ark of the Covenant? The Law? Baptism is death. It is the symbolic death and resurrection that the ritual of baptism is about. It is a ritual, a ceremony. That is all.

Look back a couple of verses to verse 18. Think very quietly as you read this...

"Dead in the flesh alive in the spirit" (pneuma). What is the verse saying about Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection?

 

[YAQUBOS]

Didn't you earlier admit that the bible is not The Bible? That the book we have on our shelves is NOT the Word of God but only a human manifestation of God's Word and that it doesn't matter what translation, or what version with what errors we have, God's Word is still there and will speak to us through the Holy Spirit?

No.

OK. You get one meaning from it. I get another. Soul Searcher gets another meaning. Jimmy Swaggart and James Jones and David Koresh and Ted Haggee and John Haggee and Benny Hinn and Billy Graham and James Bakker and Pat Robertson and Pope Benedict 16th, and George W Bush all get different messages from the Bible and The Holy Spirit speaking through it.... so is everyone right? HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE?

Give a practical example. What you say here is wrong.

Which Bible? The Bible or the bible? What the Holy Spirit tells you or me?

The only Bible available.

It doesn't matter what you believe as long as you really really believe it and follow it... is that it? If you hear the Holy Spirit tell you to jump, don't ask how high, just jump?

No, that is not what I said.

Ah, and a reminder: I tell you what I meant when you ask for it.

Yeah... faith based on what you believe? How can one be different from the other?

Faith based on the truth.

Here we are again... does God tell you one thing and me another? Does he tell you to believe and follow every single word in the bible because they are The Bible, and tell me to realize that it is a record of Jewish History written by Jews as they longed for deliverance from exile and re-establishment as a nation?

God says only one truth, His truth. If you don't believe what He says, you don't hear the truth, but you see in what He says only your wrong conclusions.

God is right about what? (Don't say "everything".) Are you contending that everything in the bible, which you believe is The Bible, The Word of God, is God being right?

God is Himself the Truth. His Word is truth. His Word is right.

I am glad you picked a book NOT written by its purported author and only got into the Canon by a compromise.
This verse is so obviously NOT from God... how can you not see it?
Baptism saves you; this clearly means that baptism is NECESSARY or at the very least substitutionary for God's grace.

So you couldn't meet the challenge, and the verse clearly says that baptism is necessary in Salvation.

N.B.: The verse doesn't say that baptism is necessary FOR Salvation, so I don't see what does this have to do with God's Grace alone being the cause of our Salvation.

NO! It is not. It is a reference to the tale of Noah and the great global flood that killed all but 8 souls (psuche). What did the waters of the flood do? It destroyed, it didn't save. The ark saved. The ark... like the Ark of the Covenant? The Law? Baptism is death. It is the symbolic death and resurrection that the ritual of baptism is about. It is a ritual, a ceremony. That is all.

Great. So you said that Baptism, just like the Flood, DOES DO something, i.e. death You said that baptism is not necessary FOR Salvation, but it is a necessary part of Salvation. And that's true. That's what the verse says

So, just like the Flood for Noah and those who were with him, baptism is necessary IN Salvation. Without the Flood, why did Noah need to build the Ark? Without baptism, what is Salvation? It is Salvation from what? Not from death?

Look back a couple of verses to verse 18. Think very quietly as you read this...

"Dead in the flesh alive in the spirit" (pneuma). What is the verse saying about Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection?

It says that Jesus was really dead in flesh, and the next verses say that all people who lived before Jesus were saved by the same once for all sacrifice:

"For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit" ( 1 Peter 3:18 )

So as we all can see, you couldn't meet the challenge to bring one verse as clear as the verse that I quoted and that says that baptism is necessary in Salvation.



Have a nice time, but don't oppose the Word of God, because you will fail.

In Christ's Love,
YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

"Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" ( 1 Peter 3:21 )

†

 

[brinny]

no

 

[KCDAD]

YAQUBOS;47187808No.

Yes , you did you little fibber

Give a practical example. What you say here is wrong.

how so?

The only Bible available.

Are you locked in prison cell or motel room? There are hundreds of bibles available.

No, that is not what I said.

Ah, and a reminder: I tell you what I meant when you ask for it.

You never have

Faith based on the truth.

On your truth?

God says only one truth, His truth. If you don't believe what He says, you don't hear the truth, but you see in what He says only your wrong conclusions.

One truth... mankind was created before the animals, and mankind was created after the animals... Satan caused David to sin, God caused David to sin... Abraham was justified by faith, Abraham was justified by his actions...No way to heaven but by the blood of Jesus, Elijah and others went directly to heaven long before Jesus...

yeah... one truth

God is Himself the Truth. His Word is truth. His Word is right.

And you know what that is.... riiiiiiiiiight

So you couldn't meet the challenge, and the verse clearly says that baptism is necessary in Salvation.

Oh now it is necessary "IN" salvation... not essential for, or necessary for.... cute

N.B.: The verse doesn't say that baptism is necessary FOR Salvation, so I don't see what does this have to do with God's Grace alone being the cause of our Salvation.

riiiiiiiiiiiight

Great. So you said that Baptism, just like the Flood, DOES DO something, i.e. death You said that baptism is not necessary FOR Salvation, but it is a necessary part of Salvation. And that's true. That's what the verse says

So, just like the Flood for Noah and those who were with him, baptism is necessary IN Salvation. Without the Flood, why did Noah need to build the Ark? Without baptism, what is Salvation? It is Salvation from what? Not from death?

it symbolic you literal dolt. Wipe that pompous smile off your face and see what a fool you are being.

Have a nice time, but don't oppose the Word of God, because you will fail.

So says the Word of Yaqubos! BFD

 

[YAQUBOS]

Yes , you did you little fibber

No.

how so?

Still waiting for the practical example.

Are you locked in prison cell or motel room? There are hundreds of bibles available.

Wrong. There is only ONE Bible available. You are talking about the different versions and translations available. Sorry, but I am talking about the Bible itself.

You never have

Yes, you never have asked for it. Instead, you ask for another thing.

On your truth?

On the only truth.

One truth... mankind was created before the animals, and mankind was created after the animals...

God never said that mankind was created before the animals. You see how there is only one truth, and all human imaginations are only lies?

Satan caused David to sin, God caused David to sin...

God never caused anyone to sin. You see the lie? Only the use of a verb like "caused", and all is changed...

Abraham was justified by faith, Abraham was justified by his actions...

Justified before whom??

You see the lie? People who don't understand what justification means invent imaginations.

No way to heaven but by the blood of Jesus, Elijah and others went directly to heaven long before Jesus...

Let's forget now about the error you made about Elijah going to Heaven.

But who told you that Elijah goes to Heaven by anything other than the Blood of Jesus Christ?

yeah... one truth

Thanks for admitting that. Because all the other things that you added were human imaginations; the imaginations of people who are not born of God and who don't understand His Word.

And you know what that is.... riiiiiiiiiight

Yes, because God has revealed it. It's not hidden in some dark place.

Oh now it is necessary "IN" salvation... not essential for, or necessary for.... cute

Not now only, but always. It's not the first time I tell you this and you don't hear.

it symbolic you literal dolt. Wipe that pompous smile off your face and see what a fool you are being.

Thank you for your respect.

And thank you for admitting that Noah's Flood is a symbol of baptism.

Those people in the days of Noah DIED by that Flood...

So says the Word of Yaqubos! BFD

You mock because you fail to oppose the Word of God.

YAQUBOS†

 

[izarya]

"Is baptism necessary to be saved?"

No!

 

[KCDAD]

YAQUBOS;47528708
Wrong. There is only ONE Bible available. You are talking about the different versions and translations available. Sorry, but I am talking about the Bible itself.

Where is it?

On the only truth.

the only truth YOU KNOW...

God never said that mankind was created before the animals. You see how there is only one truth, and all human imaginations are only lies?

God created the animals and brought them before Adam BECAUSE Adam was lonely... how was Adam lonely before he existed?

God never caused anyone to sin. You see the lie? Only the use of a verb like "caused", and all is changed...

Really? What word is in "the" Bible if it is not caused... incited? Do you know they mean the same thing?

You see the lie?

Absolutely.

Let's forget now about the error you made about Elijah going to Heaven.

But who told you that Elijah goes to Heaven by anything other than the Blood of Jesus Christ?

Do you know what blood is? There can not Jesus' blood before Jesus is alive... duh.

Where is Elijah? Where is Elisha?

Because all the other things that you added were human imaginations; the imaginations of people who are not born of God and who don't understand His Word.

and you are the fountain of knowledge... if you do not agree with Yaqubos, you are wrong.. who needs God? Just follow Yaqubos.

. Yes, because God has revealed it. It's not hidden in some dark place

Then why did he need to reveal it... and to you?

Not now only, but always. It's not the first time I tell you this and you don't hear.

Again you miss the target and hit the barnyard...

Thank you for your respect.

I have none for you or your beliefs...

And thank you for admitting that Noah's Flood is a symbol of baptism.

Those people in the days of Noah DIED by that Flood...

Killed by a symbol... ugh

You mock because you fail to oppose the Word of God.

I mock because you are full of yourself, an egomaniac and blinded by your own self righteousness.
Your arguments are shallow and pointless.

I mock because I oppose the word of Yaqubos, in favor of the Word of God.

 

[YAQUBOS]

Where is it?

You don't have a copy of the Bible? Well, there are many Christian ministries that can provide for you a copy.

the only truth YOU KNOW...

The truth is revealed, dear friend.

God created the animals and brought them before Adam BECAUSE Adam was lonely... how was Adam lonely before he existed?

Adam was alone with all those animals who were created already by God. By the way, do you know what is the difference between you and animals? If you know, you will know why you will be alone when you are with an animal...

Really? What word is in "the" Bible if it is not caused... incited? Do you know they mean the same thing?

Where do you read in the Bible that God incited anyone TO SIN?

Do you know what blood is? There can not Jesus' blood before Jesus is alive... duh.

Do you know what the power of Jesus' blood is?

Where is Elijah? Where is Elisha?

Thank you for adding Elisha this time...

and you are the fountain of knowledge... if you do not agree with Yaqubos, you are wrong.. who needs God? Just follow Yaqubos.

God is the Fountain of knowledge. You need to follow His Word, the Bible.

Then why did he need to reveal it... and to you?

He revealed it to everyone, and not only to me. As soon as a ministry will send to you a copy of the Bible, you can open it and read in it the revelation of God.

By the way, God doesn't do things because of a need in Him. He is LOVE. He loves you.

Again you miss the target and hit the barnyard...

No.

I have none for you or your beliefs...

Thank you for admitting that you don't have the Spirit who gives the fruit of LOVE. By the way, Love respects people.

Killed by a symbol... ugh

See? Actually, those people DIED in that Flood.

I mock because you are full of yourself, an egomaniac and blinded by your own self righteousness.
Your arguments are shallow and pointless.

I mock because I oppose the word of Yaqubos, in favor of the Word of God.

No no, you mock because you fail to oppose the Word of God.

By the way, if I were righteous, I wouldn't need the Righteousness of God about which I am telling you.

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

YAQUBOS;47719792You don't have a copy of the Bible? Well, there are many Christian ministries that can provide for you a copy.

And mine is apparently different from yours... in fact every edition is different depending upon the translators' preferences.

The truth is revealed, dear friend.

Really? You are a gnostic, now?

Adam was alone with all those animals who were created already by God. By the way, do you know what is the difference between you and animals? If you know, you will know why you will be alone when you are with an animal...

NO I don't. Please tell me the difference between man and other animals.

Where do you read in the Bible that God incited anyone TO SIN?

Already cited several times. God incited David to take a census. That was a major sin for David.

Do you know what the power of Jesus' blood is?

Apparently not. Do you have some mystical response?

God is the Fountain of knowledge. You need to follow His Word, the Bible.

His Word, Jesus? The Bible is not God's Word and never claimed to be. The Bible is a compilation of many writings from many different aions and authors. (Compiled by the RCC in the 4th and 5th century AFTER Jesus died.)

He revealed it to everyone, and not only to me. As soon as a ministry will send to you a copy of the Bible, you can open it and read in it the revelation of God.

Ha ha ha.

By the way, God doesn't do things because of a need in Him. He is LOVE. He loves you.

Prove it. No, don't even try... demonstrate it.

See? Actually, those people DIED in that Flood.

What people? The sinners? All the sinners? The animals? Those sinful animals?

No no, you mock because you fail to oppose the Word of God.

I mock because I oppose the "word of Yaqubos".

By the way, if I were righteous, I wouldn't need the Righteousness of God about which I am telling you.

So you ARE righteous, now? Or do you still "require" the righteousness of God? Will God's grace and righteousness ever be enough, or will you always need more of it?

 

[YAQUBOS]

And mine is apparently different from yours... in fact every edition is different depending upon the translators' preferences.

What do you mean by "different"? Does your edition say that Jesus is not the Christ and that you are not a sinner who needs Salvation?

Concerning our topic, what does your edition say in 1 Peter 3:21 ?

Really? You are a gnostic, now?

No, the truth is revealed to EVERYONE. You can know it very easily by reading the Bible.

NO I don't. Please tell me the difference between man and other animals.

Simple:

"God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." ( Genesis 1:27 )

Animals are not created in the image of God.

You see? I didn't quote something hidden or something that only Gnostics know. You could only read the account of Genesis carefully and you would know that man was created in the image of God, male AND female He created THEM, and they are BOTH in the image of God. No animal is in the image of God.

Already cited several times. God incited David to take a census. That was a major sin for David.

But where did you read that God incited David to do the SIN involved in that census?

Many times God asked leaders of Israel to take a census of the children of Israel, and no one had any problem, and there was no sin in that. Here again, God asked David to take a census, but He did NOT incite him to the sin involved in that census. David sinned by his own will, by listening to Satan.

Apparently not. Do you have some mystical response?

No need for any mystical response. The Blood of Jesus Christ is not limited for a certain time of history. His Blood is powerful enough to save people, even the people who lived before His coming to the earth, including Elijah.

So Elijah goes to Heaven by the Blood of Jesus Christ.

His Word, Jesus? The Bible is not God's Word and never claimed to be. The Bible is a compilation of many writings from many different aions and authors. (Compiled by the RCC in the 4th and 5th century AFTER Jesus died.)

Jesus said that the inspired Scripture is the Word of God. If you have any problem with that, then don't follow Jesus Christ. You are free to choose your god: God, our Father in Jesus Christ, or a god of your imagination.

Prove it. No, don't even try... demonstrate it.

OK. But make sure you know what the Love of God is, so that you may see it when I demonstrate it.

What people? The sinners? All the sinners? The animals? Those sinful animals?

Those who were not in the Ark. The Ark is a symbol of Christ.

So if you are not in Christ, you will die like them.

I mock because I oppose the "word of Yaqubos".

No no. I told you: you mock because you fail to oppose the Word of God.

Who is YAQUBOS? "What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one." ( 1 Corinthians 3:5 )

The Bible is not the words of men. It is not the words of Moses, or Paul, or Peter, or John... The Bible is the Word of God that those people wrote for us, and that YAQUBOS is preaching to you. Servants through whom you hear the Word of God. They don't preach their own human words.

So you ARE righteous, now? Or do you still "require" the righteousness of God? Will God's grace and righteousness ever be enough, or will you always need more of it?

I am a justified sinner. I am justified once for all, and that's the Righteousness of God for me. And I always hunger and thirst for God's Righteousness in me, until death, and He satisfies me always; and this is Sanctification.

This is the sure promise of Christ:

"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied." ( Matthew 5:6 )

"But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you." ( Matthew 6:33 )

So the Grace of God is enough to justify us and to sanctify us, and also to take us to the Glory of God from which we are separated by sin:

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" ( Romans 3:23 )

That amazing Grace has made it so:

"through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God." ( Romans 5:2 )

So this Grace is enough, and more than enough, to justify us, sanctify us, and take us to that sinless glorification for which we hope. We have ALL in Christ who Himself is the Grace of God. We don't have anything of ourselves. So I am not righteous in myself, that's why I needed the Righteousness of God alone, and that's why I preach to you that Righteousness and not my own righteousness.

Receive that Grace of God now. You can have the forgiveness of your sins by the Blood of Jesus Christ, and begin a new life.

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

YAQUBOS;47894543What do you mean by "different"? Does your edition say that Jesus is not the Christ and that you are not a sinner who needs Salvation?

Yes. Well, I should say that in some places it says he is the "Christ" and in other places it says other people are the Christ. In some places it says he is Son of God and others Son of Man. IN some places it says anyone can forgive sin, other places only God can forgive sin... Doesn't your Bible have these "problems"?

Concerning our topic, what does your edition say in 1 Peter 3:21 ?

Baptism, a representation of the Noahachian flood, is now saving you, not by putting off the filth of the flesh but by the inquiry into God by good conscience, through the upstanding of Jesus Anointed.

AND?

No, the truth is revealed to EVERYONE. You can know it very easily by reading the Bible.

Apparently you and I have experienced this revelation differently...

Simple:

"God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." ( Genesis 1:27 )

Was that before or after he created the animals to keep man company and before he created Eve from a rib bone?

Animals are not created in the image of God.

How do you know that? What would you say is "image" different about a Bonobo and a Human?

You see? I didn't quote something hidden or something that only Gnostics know. You could only read the account of Genesis carefully and you would know that man was created in the image of God, male AND female He created THEM, and they are BOTH in the image of God. No animal is in the image of God.

Humans are animals. Nevertheless, why do you only pick and choose which verses you are going to comment on or pay attention to? Why do take these verses out of context and then try and twist the context to fit them?

But where did you read that God incited David to do the SIN involved in that census?

How about this time you actually look it up and mark it down so I don't have to give the citation a 6th time? (Although I appreciate your revealing that you haven't looked it up before)
2 Samuel 24:1 God did it
I Chronicles 21:1 Satan did it

Many times God asked leaders of Israel to take a census of the children of Israel, and no one had any problem, and there was no sin in that. Here again, God asked David to take a census, but He did NOT incite him to the sin involved in that census. David sinned by his own will, by listening to Satan.

Do you get paid for being a contortionist?
This might help you to think about the problem:
http://www.joyfulministry.com/census.htm

Satan and God (according to the Old Testament authors) work together... are partners...

No need for any mystical response. The Blood of Jesus Christ is not limited for a certain time of history. His Blood is powerful enough to save people, even the people who lived before His coming to the earth, including Elijah.

HIS BLOOD? The actual blood? Are you crazy?

So Elijah goes to Heaven by the Blood of Jesus Christ.

Yikes.

Jesus said that the inspired Scripture is the Word of God. If you have any problem with that, then don't follow Jesus Christ. You are free to choose your god: God, our Father in Jesus Christ, or a god of your imagination.

Gosh, there you go with that "intentional misrepresentation of the truth" again. Not ever, no where, not once, NEVER did Jesus say anything like that, nor did anyone (except late comers like yourself) record Jesus saying anything like that, nor did Paul, in his letter to Timothy even imply that Jesus ever thought that.

SO WHOEVER YOU ARE FOLLOWING THAT TOLD YOU THAT... it wasn't Jesus.

OK. But make sure you know what the Love of God is, so that you may see it when I demonstrate it.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Yeah, that is eactly what Jesus taught isn't it? Make sure they know you are being loving when you feed the hungry and visit the imprisoned....

Those who were not in the Ark. The Ark is a symbol of Christ.

REALLY????? Noah built a savior?

So if you are not in Christ, you will die like them.

You know what? You will die just like them too. We are all going to die just like them. It isn't about dying (except to self) it is about living.

No no. I told you: you mock because you fail to oppose the Word of God.

So lovingly you mock me? Is that why I can't tell you are showing me God's love?

Who is YAQUBOS? "What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one." ( 1 Corinthians 3:5 )

You are Apollos!?!?!?!?! Awesome! I am impwessed.

The Bible is not the words of men. It is not the words of Moses, or Paul, or Peter, or John... The Bible is the Word of God that those people wrote for us, and that YAQUBOS is preaching to you. Servants through whom you hear the Word of God. They don't preach their own human words.

I do want to hear the word of Yaqubos. What I don't want is you to misrepresent your word as God's word.

I do want to read Moses' and Ezra's and David's and Isaiah's and Matthew's and Paul's words... but I don't want them misrepresented as God's words either.

I am a justified sinner. I am justified once for all, and that's the Righteousness of God for me. And I always hunger and thirst for God's Righteousness in me, until death, and He satisfies me always; and this is Sanctification.

Whoopdeedo for you. I was never a sinner. My sin was forgiven about 1925 years before I was born.

 

[angrylittlefisherman]

This is an answer posted by the user Ephipanius in the St Justin Martyr's corner, in the Ancient Way forum.
I will post it here for you.

This is a rigorously logical argument I have formulated about baptism fleshed out in a series of statements.

1. To be a Christian you must love Christ.
2. People who do not love Christ, hate him and are not under his grace.
3. Christ states "If you love me, obey my commands".
4. If you willfully defy the commands of Christ, you do not love him.
5. Christ commands baptism.

Conclusion: If you as a person willfully refuse baptism at a time when it is possible for you to be baptized. You are willfully refusing a command of God and thus you do not love Him. If you do not love Him, you are not a Christian.

DO NOT GIVE ME REPS FOR THIS POST. GIVE THEM TO EPIPHANIUS.

 

[izarya]

Baptised by who? That's the problem.

 

[KCDAD]

angrylittlefisherman;47898888This is an answer posted by the user Ephipanius in the St Justin Martyr's corner, in the Ancient Way forum.
I will post it here for you.

This is a rigorously logical argument I have formulated about baptism fleshed out in a series of statements.

1. To be a Christian you must love Christ.

Obviously. Does one have to understand who or what "The Christ" is?

2. People who do not love Christ, hate him and are not under his grace.

False dichotomy... there is no such thing in the Bible as Christ's grace.. it is God's grace, and everyone is covered, God's grace is sufficient.

3. Christ states "If you love me, obey my commands".

That's true of anyone, I suppose...

4. If you willfully defy the commands of Christ, you do not love him.

OK... although I don't agree with this, I'll accept it...

5. Christ commands baptism.

What kind of baptism was Jesus interested in.. and how come you always refer to him as "Christ" when he was known by his name. (Or Rabbi)

Conclusion: If you as a person willfully refuse baptism at a time when it is possible for you to be baptized. You are willfully refusing a command of God and thus you do not love Him. If you do not love Him, you are not a Christian.

An absolutely logical conclusion based upon your false premises.

DO NOT GIVE ME REPS FOR THIS POST. GIVE THEM TO EPIPHANIUS.

That's not likely

 

[Soul Searcher]

2. People who do not love Christ, hate him and are not under his grace.

That's a pretty big leap there don't you think. I won't go into the grace part but focus on the love hate portion. You don;t really expect anyone to swallow that someone hates all those who they do not love do you? Is it possible for anyone to love or hate someone that tyhey are unaware of? I would say the answer is a resounding no.

3. Christ states "If you love me, obey my commands".

The commandments were to love one another and not about letting some man sunk you in the river or pour water over your head.

4. If you willfully defy the commands of Christ, you do not love him.
5. Christ commands baptism.

How does baptism equate to love for your fellow man, Jesus said all the commandments hang on this. Baptism is not a part of it. It is simply a ritual preformed by men.

Conclusion: If you as a person willfully refuse baptism at a time when it is possible for you to be baptized. You are willfully refusing a command of God and thus you do not love Him. If you do not love Him, you are not a Christian.

Sounds like the conclusion is that those who don't want to be baptised hate Jesus according to the logic above. Sad that people can claim to know Jesus and yet be so far off base.

DO NOT GIVE ME REPS FOR THIS POST. GIVE THEM TO EPIPHANIUS.

Don;t worry I don;t usually rep nonsense.