Is baptism necessary to be saved? (2)

[MasterOfKrikkit]

Christian baptism is taught in the Word of God. If you want to discuss anything else, you can go discuss it in another place, because this thread is about baptism.

You already said that you don't believe in the Bible, so according to you no need to be baptized. Well, thank you for your answer.

As for me challenging anyone here and replying to your questions, it's because I respect your thirst for answers. But all the time I am telling you to open another thread about each new topic you begin. Actually, in the beginning, KCDAD was asking about the same things that we are discussing here. I asked him to open a new thread, and he did. But he was not pleased to find the answers there, so he wished to continue the discussion of those topics here

Now, back to the topic

YAQUBOS†

Translation: if I can think of an answer, I'll give it; if not, I'll tell you the question is off-topic and claim that I can p0wn your @$$ (or that I already have) in another thread.

Translation of the translation: I got nuthin. But let's pretend that I have.

 

[Soul Searcher]

Yes, the verse you quoted is about the baptism of Jesus Christ with the baptism of John. But in this thread we are not discussing the baptism of John, but the Christian baptism.

YAQUBOS†

We are? The topic is a question and that question is "Is baptism necessary to be saved?" This question has been answered many times already and the answer is no it is not.

Most of the recent discussion has been Yaqubos claiming that the bible says things it does not say while saying that it does not say what it says while saying it is clear and we have seen even though both statements are clearly false.

 

[KCDAD]

Yes, the verse you quoted is about the baptism of Jesus Christ with the baptism of John. But in this thread we are not discussing the baptism of John, but the Christian baptism.

YAQUBOS†

What is the difference between John's baptism and Christian baptism?

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

WONderful summary... ever think of becoming an editor?

Thanks! But, no, I've not considered editing as a profession -- you may have noticed that I have a proclivity for verbosity also. I *have* considered becoming a mathematician; I claim that, somewhat paradoxically, both my ability for summarizing and my tendency towards circumlocution both come from my mathematical training

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

Most of the recent discussion has been Yaqubos claiming that the bible says things it does not say while saying that it does not say what it says while saying it is clear and we have seen even though both statements are clearly false.

Speaking of which... I just realized that we missed an even clearer contradiction in the Gen1/2 accounts:

(4) When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens- 5 and no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth and no plant of the field had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no man to work the ground, 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground- 7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. 8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed.

This clearly states that Man was formed when no plants had yet appeared, even though Gen 1 clearly states plants appeared three days before Man. There's also clear indication that plants had not appeared partly because there was nobody around to work the land, implying that Man needed to come before, or at least at the same time as, plants. Oops.

So, who wants to take bets on how Yaqubos works around that one? We can't state our bets publicly, lest we prejudice the result, so we'll have to go on the honor system -- I have my prediction; everyone cast your (silent) bets now...

 

[KCDAD]

God planted the plants... but they hadn't growed up yet...

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

God planted the plants... but they hadn't growed up yet...

Bzzzzt! Your Yaqubos-fu is weak, grasshopper:

The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds (Gen 1:12)

Actually, maybe that's strong Yaqubos-fu. Hard to work these things out...

(Now, I would have been impressed if you'd already given an ad hoc workaround for that, too)

 

[KCDAD]

Bzzzzt! Your Yaqubos-fu is weak, grasshopper:

The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds (Gen 1:12)

Actually, maybe that's strong Yaqubos-fu. Hard to work these things out...

(Now, I would have been impressed if you'd already given an ad hoc workaround for that, too)

An apple seed is the same entity as an apple tree... like a apple fetus... so since God is timeless, when God wrote tree he actually meant seed. It's all the same to God.

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

An apple seed is the same entity as an apple tree... like a apple fetus... so since God is timeless, when God wrote tree he actually meant seed. It's all the same to God.

I take it back: your Yaqubos-fu is indeed strong. That made my brain cry just reading it! ...Partly because that really could have been an answer from Yaqubos -- you forgot to include: a tangential Bible quote, with some random words underlined; the phrase "we have seen" related to something not at all clearly seen; a threat of eternal damnation for not believing this; a claim that this interpretation isn't completely ludicrous, but, rather, "The true Word of God"; too many smileys. But the meat of your "argument"... wow, that's impressive. Or scary.

 

[GregoryTurner]

Yes, the verse you quoted is about the baptism of Jesus Christ with the baptism of John. But in this thread we are not discussing the baptism of John, but the Christian baptism.

YAQUBOS†

Baptism of Jesus Christ... not relevant???
Christian baptism...relevant???

Is Christ not "Christ"ianity?

 

[KCDAD]

Baptism of Jesus Christ... not relevant???
Christian baptism...relevant???

Is Christ not "Christ"ianity?

Now you see what we have been dealing with?

 

[GregoryTurner]

Yeah my initial response to a Christian baptism with John and all really threw me for a loop. I am glad I was sitting down and not drinking anything when I read that.

 

[YAQUBOS]

What is the difference between John's baptism and Christian baptism?

The one makes you a disciple of John, the other makes you a disciple of Jesus.

YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Speaking of which... I just realized that we missed an even clearer contradiction in the Gen1/2 accounts:

(4) When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens- 5 and no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth and no plant of the field had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no man to work the ground, 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground- 7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. 8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed.

This clearly states that Man was formed when no plants had yet appeared, even though Gen 1 clearly states plants appeared three days before Man. There's also clear indication that plants had not appeared partly because there was nobody around to work the land, implying that Man needed to come before, or at least at the same time as, plants. Oops.

So, who wants to take bets on how Yaqubos works around that one? We can't state our bets publicly, lest we prejudice the result, so we'll have to go on the honor system -- I have my prediction; everyone cast your (silent) bets now...

Shrub of the field and plant of the field. Plants that we have by cultivating the ground.

Interestingly, the text says that God planted a garden in Eden, and that there were trees in it BEFORE God put man there...

"The LORD God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed." ( Genesis 2:8 )

"Then the LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it." ( Genesis 2:15 )



May the Lord bless you richly!

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

The one makes you a disciple of John, the other makes you a disciple of Jesus.

YAQUBOS†

That is the dumbest thing I ever heard... so Jesus is a disciple of John?

 

[YAQUBOS]

I take it back: your Yaqubos-fu is indeed strong. That made my brain cry just reading it! ...Partly because that really could have been an answer from Yaqubos -- you forgot to include: a tangential Bible quote, with some random words underlined; the phrase "we have seen" related to something not at all clearly seen; a threat of eternal damnation for not believing this; a claim that this interpretation isn't completely ludicrous, but, rather, "The true Word of God"; too many smileys. But the meat of your "argument"... wow, that's impressive. Or scary.

I don't believe it if you say that you don't know what cultivating a field means.

YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Baptism of Jesus Christ... not relevant???
Christian baptism...relevant???

Is Christ not "Christ"ianity?

The baptism of Jesus Christ is relevant to our topic, but the baptism of John is not.

YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

That is the dumbest thing I ever heard... so Jesus is a disciple of John?

Thank you for the appreciation

"And they came to John and said to him, "Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified, behold, He is baptizing and all are coming to Him."" ( John 3:26 )

"Therefore when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John" ( John 4:1 )

I don't see any problem if Jesus was so humble that He accepted to be considered a disciple of John, while John thought that it is he who must be Jesus' disciple:

"Then Jesus arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him.
But John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?"" ( Matthew 3:13-14 )

Here, John says it is he who must be the disciple of Jesus, and yet Jesus is so humble that He comes to John.

And here is where Jesus says this HUMBLY:

"But Jesus answering said to him, "Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he permitted Him." ( Matthew 3:15 )

That's the way of God: HUMILITY.

Didn't I tell you that humility is the key??

So we see that our friend GregoryTurner was quoting this verse in which Jesus humbly accepts to be considered as a follower of John, although all of us need to be HIS followers.

It is very sad that many people read the Bible without seeing anything in it other than some stories without meaning, and yet the Word of God is a TREASURE!!

YAQUBOS†

 

[Soul Searcher]

The baptism of Jesus Christ is relevant to our topic, but the baptism of John is not.

YAQUBOS†

You have no idea what you are talking about do you? It case you hadn't guessed it shows

The baptism of John as you call it is water baptism which is what the topic refers to. John said I indeed baptise you with water but he who comes after me will baptise you with fire and the holy spirit.

btw the baptism of Jesus was done by John in water. Now the baptism John spoke of that Jesus would do has nothing to do with water but with the spirit instead but then that is not the baptism we have been talking about.

 

[GregoryTurner]

Hello? Do you even read scripture?...
Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

This verse that I posted was about the baptism of Jesus Christ, the Son of God and to whom Christianity is based.

The baptism of Jesus Christ is relevant to our topic, but the baptism of John is not.

YAQUBOS†

The above scripture is the baptism of Jesus.